Angus Elite Sale - Sat 12th

Bellview

Anyone travelling next weekend... like the CH Xmas cracker weather is a real challenge

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/very-best-of-angus-genetics-up-for-grabs-at-carrick-elite-show-and-sale/

blue5000

Bought a bull earlier this year, so won't be going. Will you have anything there yourself?
Got the catalogue and if I had money to spare there's a couple of females I'd be interested in.

tanko

blue5000 wrote: »

Bought a bull earlier this year, so won't be going. Will you have anything there yourself?
Got the catalogue and if I had money to spare there's a couple of females I'd be interested in.

What's the breeding of your bull?

wiggy123

be interesting to see how it goes, the way cattle prices are at the moment

tanko

wiggy123 wrote: »

be interesting to see how it goes, the way cattle prices are at the moment

You'd imagine that the expansion of the dairy herd would be good news for Angus breeders?

blue5000

tanko wrote: »

What's the breeding of your bull?

He's by mogeely joe, ai bull in dovea.

wiggy123

true, last few years been good for the breed--long may it continue.. once we breed the right bull for the dairy man..breed be ok

Bellview

blue5000 wrote: »

Bought a bull earlier this year, so won't be going. Will you have anything there yourself?
Got the catalogue and if I had money to spare there's a couple of females I'd be interested in.

nothing entered, bit like yourself now there are a few females that on paper caught my eye so will see how my pocket will fare if I decide to have a punt

Bellview

wiggy123 wrote: »

true, last few years been good for the breed--long may it continue.. once we breed the right bull for the dairy man..breed be ok

great point, saw on article last year that 25% of angus calves will not make the O4 grade from dairy herd.. need an injection of genuine thickness in some of the breeding females

once the export of the plainer ones continue it will always help

Bellview

blue5000 wrote: »

He's by mogeely joe, ai bull in dovea.

any calves yet?

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

any calves yet?

Not yet, will be towards the end of Jan/early Feb. Used him on some 2yo blonde x heifers first.

Milked out

wiggy123 wrote: »

true, last few years been good for the breed--long may it continue.. once we breed the right bull for the dairy man..breed be ok

Ye might make em a bit bigger. Gone right small the last few years and fall on their hole every time they jump! Have a aa here with 3 years grand fertile fella but too short. Previous aa we had about 8/9 years ago was a big fella but still easy calving

Bellview

Milked out wrote: »

Ye might make em a bit bigger. Gone right small the last few years and fall on their hole every time they jump! Have a aa here with 3 years grand fertile fella but too short. Previous aa we had about 8/9 years ago was a big fella but still easy calving

assume this is a wind up as there are bigger bulls out today that 10 years ago... only challenge is some of these lads are tough calving in dairy side. The other side of the coin especially in dairy is the cow now is not able to calf same size calf as 10 years ago especially with some of the smaller breed introduced into dairy herd

Milked out

Bellview wrote: »

assume this is a wind up as there are bigger bulls out today that 10 years ago... only challenge is some of these lads are tough calving in dairy side. The other side of the coin especially in dairy is the cow now is not able to calf same size calf as 10 years ago especially with some of the smaller breed introduced into dairy herd

No no wind up, just my own opinion, could well be wrong. Only use aa and bb beef ai here. Had HE bulls in between those two aa bulls one for a few seasons was great bull until neighbours dogs went messing around but next two HE bulls I found the heads lead to more difficult calving esp on the heifers as didn't allow the animal open up enough hence my preference for blues and aa ai as the head allows the animal ease in to the process of calving imo Neighbour has used a group of 3 bulls on his cows to mop up in last 2 years and all six I found small enough and always one out after hurting himself. My scenario might be different to others in that I look for a bull that will be with heifers and still manage cows also. Maybe smaller bulls down here are in in more demand for heifers with high concentration of dairy in the area. Just looking for perfect world, bigger bull with easy calving but obviously not a straight forward ask

Bellview

Milked out wrote: »

No no wind up, just my own opinion, could well be wrong. Only use aa and bb beef ai here. Had HE bulls in between those two aa bulls one for a few seasons was great bull until neighbours dogs went messing around but next two HE bulls I found the heads lead to more difficult calving esp on the heifers as didn't allow the animal open up enough hence my preference for blues and aa ai as the head allows the animal ease in to the process of calving imo Neighbour has used a group of 3 bulls on his cows to mop up in last 2 years and all six I found small enough and always one out after hurting himself. My scenario might be different to others in that I look for a bull that will be with heifers and still manage cows also. Maybe smaller bulls down here are in in more demand for heifers with high concentration of dairy in the area. Just looking for perfect world, bigger bull with easy calving but obviously not a straight forward ask

that's the tough call alright. some of the older bloodlines that did achieve that have been lost... NCBC lost 100 bohey jasper straws this year and don't give a F&$k eventhough they were paid for and were holding them for a society...
there are two extremes out there .. the easy calving rabbit type calves who are dairy focused 100%... although Munster AT are offering these as genomic scheme options, which is nuts. then there are the hard calvers ie Rawburns, Nightingales' Dunbars, Bosullow elmarks etc that are used by the show boys who have calving difficultly of 10%

If you fall across a Nord or coneyisland bull you will generally get good cattle, problem is the stars for these boys are really poor eventhough their daughters have milk and the ones I have used are easy to calve. I will never understand how the stars are calculated..

LivInt20

Bellview wrote: »

...

If you fall across a Nord or coneyisland bull you will generally get good cattle, problem is the stars for these boys are really poor eventhough their daughters have milk and the ones I have used are easy to calve. I will never understand how the stars are calculated..

This might help you.

http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332

Bellview

LivInt20 wrote: »

This might help you.

http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332

saw that before, still does not explain why Coneyisland was 5 star and is breeding good cattle has moved to 2 star.. same for Nord. the FAQ is only there to confuse folks with stats that are impossible to measure ie milk

LivInt20

Bellview wrote: »

saw that before, still does not explain why Coneyisland was 5 star and is breeding good cattle has moved to 2 star.. same for Nord. the FAQ is only there to confuse folks with stats that are impossible to measure ie milk

How is milk impossible to measure.

Weight of calf is directly related to milk.

So if calves are weighed regularly and especially between 100 - 250 days then this info entered on ICBF is used to calculate milk yield from a cow/bull.

Most marts in the country return weight data to ICBF which is used to calculate milk yield.

Milk yield is also calculated from farmer responses to ICBF surveys in suckler scheme and Beef Data programme.

Two star means he is in the bottom 40% compared to all other AA purebred cattle.

I suspect he is two star because of daughter milk which is being measured as above, and his daughters are lacking milk compared to other bulls' daughters.
Daughter milk (kg) -3.25kg
Breed ave: 6.87kg, All breeds ave: 2.97kg

wiggy123

true Nord has low stars--why am unsure, I find his females do not have much milk..
Coneyisland never used him--think mixed bag with him

bulls have gotten to big/hard calving, turns dairy men off them, also the way dairy is going-re smaller cows/thus mayb smaller calves from the angus..

but then what does the dairy man, me thinks cow in parlour producing milk, calf a 2nd thought

bogman_bass

wiggy123 wrote: »

true Nord has low stars--why am unsure, I find his females do not have much milk..
Coneyisland never used him--think mixed bag with him

bulls have gotten to big/hard calving, turns dairy men off them, also the way dairy is going-re smaller cows/thus mayb smaller calves from the angus..


but then what does the dairy man, me thinks cow in parlour producing milk, calf a 2nd thought

That's it. Dairy man wants A) a calf the cow can spit out
short gestation
C) a calf the right colour so he can be flogged at 2 weeks of age

Quality isn't a factor for that job and in fact probably gets in the way of point A and B

Bellview

LivInt20 wrote: »

How is milk impossible to measure.

Weight of calf is directly related to milk.

So if calves are weighed regularly and especially between 100 - 250 days then this info entered on ICBF is used to calculate milk yield from a cow/bull.

Most marts in the country return weight data to ICBF which is used to calculate milk yield.

Milk yield is also calculated from farmer responses to ICBF surveys in suckler scheme and Beef Data programme.

Two star means he is in the bottom 40% compared to all other AA purebred cattle.

I suspect he is two star because of daughter milk which is being measured as above, and his daughters are lacking milk compared to other bulls' daughters.
Daughter milk (kg) -3.25kg
Breed ave: 6.87kg, All breeds ave: 2.97kg

we have had this debate in the past and I'm not wasting any time on it... I only deal with the facts I know and can see.

In Angus Coneyisland & Nord are hammered on stars, their daughter do have milk, both are AI bulls but the stars don't reflect this... ICBF is based on stats and their stats are wrong with these two bulls... ask anyone that has them and their comment will be similar to mine.

tanko

Went over for a look, had to leave half way through sale. Lot 26, the only red Angus there sold for €6,100. Lot 38 made €5,900.
Lot 28 was male champion, made close to €6K I think. Good few Bulls not sold.
Lot 70 was female champion.

wiggy123

hearing gd reports from sale... demand still there

Bellview

Overall it was a great sale

great sale yesterday especially for males. The quality was the best I have seen at any of the elite sales and definitely the highest quality for bulls. There were still a few bulls that should not have been left in... one bull wasn't even clipped... for top price for males was 6400, red bull I believe went to NCBC. a good number of bulls made over 4000.. Dovea purchased lot 40.. great lengthy bull but his stars are low... but definitely a bull to consider for a few cows next spring.

the female quality wasn't as strong as previous years and the trade was mixed. there were some great prices.. champion made 6500. prices were stronger for young maiden heifers (nice few over 3,000) than the incalf heifers trade.. last year the incalf ones made the better money.

I was a little surprised with crowd as there was a nice bit of snow on the roads yesterday morning which did concern me a little.

wiggy123

u buy bellview.. hearing a few bulls bought-which could hav probs...
hfr trade gd....

Bellview

wiggy123 wrote: »

u buy bellview.. hearing a few bulls bought-which could hav probs...
hfr trade gd....

No shopping from me this time. Two folks that I was with did buy alright though.

Assume calving diff? There were a few alright that were only fit for sucklers herds

wiggy123

dairy folk could get caught out...

Bellview

wiggy123 wrote: »

dairy folk could get caught out...

Agreed. The risk for some dairy folks now is if they buy with focus only on stars as they could buy 5 star trouble. There were a few El paco there who would not suit dairy men.

wiggy123

agree totally..hes not what the dairy folk want for sure

blue5000

But we're not all dairy men! It took 60 years to get a bit of size into angus cattle, don't fcuk it up now lads.

Bellview what did lot 72 make?

Bellview

blue5000 wrote: »

But we're not all dairy men! It took 60 years to get a bit of size into angus cattle, don't fcuk it up now lads.

Bellview what did lot 72 make?

I hear you on the bulls... but the good news is there a nice few bulls with plenty size on Sat and not all cow killers. there were some sons of El Paco, Friarstown bulls, bunlahy john etc that would definitely

I actually missed the exact price of that lady but I'm pretty sure it was over 4,100. I will need to check back again

tanko

Bellview wrote: »

I hear you on the bulls... but the good news is there a nice few bulls with plenty size on Sat and not all cow killers. there were some sons of El Paco, Friarstown bulls, bunlahy john etc that would definitely

I actually missed the exact price of that lady but I'm pretty sure it was over 4,500. I will need to check back again

What did you think of the champion bull?

Before the sale I picked lot 38 as my favourite bull from a suckler herd point of view. He made €5,900 I think.

Bellview

tanko wrote: »

What did you think of the champion bull?

Before the sale I picked lot 38 as my favourite bull from a suckler herd point of view. He made €5,900 I think.

correct on the price, 38 was a super bull, out of Coneyisland. His stars will also have lifted a little so will help his daughters in suckler herd

I liked the champion as a bull and also from a pedigree point of view. I thought he was a picture in the show earlier in the day & looked a champ from the moment he won his class. If I was looking for a bull I would have been interested but I would not have paid the final price though..He was sold into a pedigree herd.

Bellview

link to all sale report on Irish angus website

http://www.irishangus.ie/html/sales_2015.html

interestingly a good number of the 'hard calving' bulls went up north

wiggy123

true blue5000

Bellview

http://www.irishangus.ie/

some video clips from the Elite sale on website