Respect ? Handshake vs Eating

sinbad68

According to Fide rules, you could be disqualified for disrespecting your opponent , for example if your opponent offers a handshake you can not decline the offer or you will lose the game if he complains, here an example of " Handshake gambit declined, Bulgarian variation !" Nigel Short vs Ivan Cheparinov

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Gb4lJeXqI


Nigel complains and is awarded the game .Personally I think handshakes should have No place in modern society as it is a harmful practice which does Nothing but spread germs specially among children and could be replaced by different hand gesture such as Namaste ?, BUT , what about eating in front of your opponent ? recently I was playing a rated game where a player sitting near me ( not my opponent) decided to have a 3 course meal while sitting and playing, food items kept coming out of his bag one after another , chewing on and on . I don't understand why Fide & ICU have No BAN on food consumption within 3 meter range of any playing board, it is rude and distracting but happens frequently, although you could complain to arbiter under distraction rule, . Rules should be simple , while playing, at the table .... Liquids -> Yes , Solids-> No. I wonder if many cases of ICU members who have complained to arbiter or opponent if they were eating in front of them ?. Fide does have rules regarding food& drink, if you drink 3 cups of coffee on the day of your match you could fall foul of Fide anti-doping rule !!

http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/7189-chess-wada-anti-doping-policy-nutrition-and-health.html

Tychoo

Good man Nigel for putting that cocky guy in his place.

cdeb

sinbad68 wrote: »

.Personally I think handshakes should have No place in modern society as it is a harmful practice which does Nothing but spread germs specially among children

What a weird view.

Food comes under distraction alright - no real need for a second rule.

Apples are the worst I think!

I complained once to a player for chewing gum at the table, but that was when I was losing against a much-lower rated player and was getting angry at the position and needed to vent a bit. Anyway, maybe my complaint should have been complained about, as it seemed to have the effect of distracting my opponent, and I won.

endacl

Namaste? Pointless. You can't gauge a person based on a good firm, namaste. Plus, you might be mistaken for a hippy, even if you smell normal.

Agree with you on the food bit.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

What a weird view.

Food comes under distraction alright - no real need for a second rule.

Apples are the worst I think!

Rules should be specific & accurate and help to avoid confusion. Distraction rule is too broad and different arbiters would have different interpretation of it when applying to food. Lets say you complain about someone eating and they claim they were chewing quietly and Not distracting you, what happens then ?. If according to your statement, eating is already under distraction rule, then why so many people are eating at tables including sandwiches.. etc . Once you ban food consumption near a playing board , you solve the problem, many players don't want to create a fuss by asking opponent to stop eating or worse reporting them to arbiters. Yes, Apple eaters can cause distraction but Don't forget the quiet banana eater slobs who leave the banana skin on the table after they leave. I find the fact that you consider my view weird, Really weird !

endacl wrote: »

Namaste? Pointless. You can't gauge a person based on a good firm, namaste. Plus, you might be mistaken for a hippy, even if you smell normal.

Agree with you on the food bit.

The Namaste thing was a bit of joke, but as I said, handshakes help spread germs and perhaps with all these resistant bugs around, in future we may have a "No handshake campaign" just like a "No smoking campaign"?.

cdeb

sinbad68 wrote: »

If according to your statement, eating is already under distraction rule, then why so many people are eating at tables including sandwiches.. etc

Because no-one complains obviously. We're all too polite.

Doesn't mean there's a separate rule needed for eating. If your opponent (or someone else) is distracting you by eating, you can complain.

sinbad68 wrote: »

The Namaste thing was a bit of joke, but as I said, handshakes help spread germs and perhaps with all these resistant bugs around, in future we may have a "No handshake campaign" just like a "No smoking campaign"?.

The namaste thing was a joke but the handshake thing wasn't?

You know exposure to germs is good in small doses (like in handshakes)?

(Incidentally, the "handshakes are bad for you" view was the one I think is weird, not the "no eating at the board" view)

Chess_Coach

Thanks for sharing this with us Sinbad .

One of the reasons I never liked Silvio Danailov is this

https://youtu.be/0Rsm3fWvRQ8 and then just 6 years after they were in the same team !

Nigel had to say this https://youtu.be/0YI-zIo4AzQ

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

Because no-one complains obviously. We're all too polite.

Doesn't mean there's a separate rule needed for eating. If your opponent (or someone else) is distracting you by eating, you can complain.

Your logic is all over the place, First you acknowledge there is a problem, then you say players are too polite to object and many will suffer in silence and if it really pisses them off then they can complain, using the vague distraction rule which many players are not aware of and not sure if arbiters will accept it, ALL THIS hassle and confusion ,instead of having a clear rule in place banning eating at the board ?, isn't prevention better than cure ?.

cdeb wrote: »

You know exposure to germs is good in small doses (like in handshakes)?

No I don't know, but it is an interesting theory, perhaps you could prove it by videoing yourself going to your regional hospital and shaking hands with a few of the patients who are suffering from pneumonia and meningitis ?

cdeb

sinbad68 wrote: »

ALL THIS hassle and confusion ,instead of having a clear rule in place banning eating at the board ?, isn't prevention better than cure ?.

Many people are too polite to claim a win on the mobile phone rule, even though that's a clear rule.

You're addressing the wrong problem.

sinbad68 wrote: »

No I don't know, but it is an interesting theory, perhaps you could prove it by videoing yourself going to your regional hospital and shaking hands with a few of the patients who are suffering from pneumonia and meningitis ?

An experiment of relevance only if you were playing games in a contagious diseases ward. Which, generally speaking, we don't.

Lucena

Regarding the mobile phone rule, I've had opponents whose phone rang on three different occasions. The first guy admitted that he'd lost the game.

The other two occasions were in a weekender that I'd travelled a fair distance to attend, so when the first guy's phone rang, I didn't say anything, thinking to myself "well, I've come all this way to play, not to get a free point and sit around for two hours." At the back of my mind though I was hoping the arbiter would step in and do something, but he didn't.
Second guy's phone vibrated for about five minutes before I said "ah, your phone's ringing". I thought the guy would admit defeat, but no, he acted all indignant and pretty much accused me of being unsporting. I should have kicked up a fuss, but I guess I was so taken aback that I didn't.

Lesson learned, I will no longer be too polite. I must look up the rules on mobile phones, though, as I'm also an arbiter. What should the arbiter do if he hears something but neither player says anything?

Regarding the food thing, I don't think you can make a rule banning food at the board. In real life, people sometimes arrive to play after work without having had time to eat, some people can have low blood sugar, and some people just want to eat a sweet or a piece of fruit while playing. Legislating for this just seems unworkable. It's like trying to introduce a to stop people fidgeting, swinging back and forward on their chair, or the like. The rules can't cover every situation, and that's where the role of the arbiter is important, s/he sometimes has to make a call on his/her reading of the situation.

cdeb

Lucena wrote: »

I thought the guy would admit defeat, but no, he acted all indignant and pretty much accused me of being unsporting.

That's very annoying. The rule is clear, and it's there for a very good reason - phones ringing is annoying. And yet, as you say, people often call it unsporting to claim a win that way, which is ridiculous.

I would have thought an arbiter can step in and declare a game lost if a phone goes off - on the grounds that it doesn't just affect the game in question, but the entire playing hall - but wouldn't be sure of that.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

Many people are too polite to claim a win on the mobile phone rule, even though that's a clear rule.

You're addressing the wrong problem.

Sinbad says ....The Problem

---

> eating at playing board Not good

---

Solution

---

> Ban on eating at the board

---

> problem solved.

cdeb says .... The problem

---

> eating at playing board Not good

---

Solution ---> None !, lets those who are polite suffer and those who are not get into arguments with opponent and arbiter !.

cdeb wrote: »

An experiment of relevance only if you were playing games in a contagious diseases ward. Which, generally speaking, we don't.

People are ill and contagious for a period in community before they go into hospital, so they could pass their disease to others through handshake in a chess tournament, specially children who are more vulnerable.

Lucena wrote: »

I must look up the rules on mobile phones

As an arbiter you should already be aware of Fide article "13.b"

https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=171&view=article

which states you can NOT bring your mobile phone into playing venue and the fact that opponent phone rings is enough for you to claim a win, unless in very unlikely scenario where a goody two shoe arbiter has announced a less severe penalty for ringing phones.Personally I don't have a problem with a phone in playing venue if switched off and doesn't have a chess program in it.

Lucena wrote: »

Regarding the food thing, I don't think you can make a rule banning food at the board. In real life, people sometimes arrive to play after work without having had time to eat, some people can have low blood sugar, and some people just want to eat a sweet or a piece of fruit while playing. Legislating for this just seems unworkable.

No one is suggesting you should not eat during your game, if you want to eat, step away from playing table, that's all , if you have come from work and hungry , it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to eat your sandwich , do it anywhere else except at the board.

cdeb

sinbad68 wrote: »

cdeb says .... The problem

---

> eating at playing board Not good

---

Solution ---> None !, lets those who are polite suffer and those who are not get into arguments with opponent and arbiter !.

Nope, that's not what I said.

sinbad68 wrote: »

People are ill and contagious for a period in community before they go into hospital, so they could pass their disease to others through handshake in a chess tournament, specially children who are more vulnerable.

Seriously?

Is this some sort of Howard Hughes nonsense?

Exposure to germs at the minuscule level of a quick handshake before a chess match = not bad for you. Probably good for you, in fact.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

Nope, that's not what I said.

That's what can be deducted from your statements.

cdeb wrote: »

Exposure to germs at the minuscule level of a quick handshake before a chess match = not bad for you. Probably good for you, in fact.

Anyway I have no more to add to the topic of handshake& eating, just to say on 3 occasions I refused to shake hands with opponent , on one occasion because I had the flu , the other because opponent had the flu and last one when this kid I was playing with spent too much time digging into his nostrils with his fingers.

reunion

cdeb wrote: »

Is this some sort of Howard Hughes nonsense?

Exposure to germs at the minuscule level of a quick handshake before a chess match = not bad for you. Probably good for you, in fact.

To note, when swine-flu or avian-flu was an issue, shaking hands was discouraged. So I'd have to disagree that a quick handshake is always good for you. Also germs don't have a 5 second rule.

This is meant for top level players who should be healthy when playing their games (otherwise performance drops). So the germ issue isn't an issue. If germs are an issue, one can purchase gloves and put them on and shake using that.

As for eating, you can call the arbiter over and make a complaint. Eating at the board should be discouraged but you aren't permitted to leave the designated areas.

Lucena

I take it no-one here has ever touched a chess piece so?

Valmont

I've seen quite a few instances during matches where players will use the urinals and then go back to their game without washing their hands. I've seen the local vicar do it twice!

sinbad68

reunion wrote: »

To note, when swine-flu or avian-flu was an issue, shaking hands was discouraged. So I'd have to disagree that a quick handshake is always good for you. Also germs don't have a 5 second rule.

This is meant for top level players who should be healthy when playing their games (otherwise performance drops). So the germ issue isn't an issue. If germs are an issue, one can purchase gloves and put them on and shake using that.

As for eating, you can call the arbiter over and make a complaint. Eating at the board should be discouraged but you aren't permitted to leave the designated areas.

Looks like finally Sinbad & reunion agree on some issues!! :eek:.

I believe fide & ICU have a duty of care to their members, specially children and should try to minimise chances of them picking up diseases.

I also want to clarify and reassure my future opponents that I won't throw a tantrum if they are eating something small like a chocolate bar and don't make much noise at the board, but if you make a lot of noise or start eating a sandwich it could make Sinabd ...:mad:.

Last summer I was playing a rated game and my opponent was a nice and friendly guy and shortly after the game begun , he took a chicken Baguette sandwich out of his bag and started eating, as he was a nice guy, my first reaction was to leave the board and go for a walk for a few minutes and come back when he is finished, but then, problem is he could continue repeating this bad behaviour, then I thought about asking him not to eat at the table, but with players so close to each other, the players on either side of us would hear and would be embarrassing for my opponent.... So I leaned back with folded arms and watched him eat, less than a minute later he got the message and got up and went to one side of the room and finished his meal.

Lucena wrote: »

I take it no-one here has ever touched a chess piece so?

In case of one of the players being sick with something contagious like flu , when touching pieces , one player can move pieces by lifting them at the top and other lifting near the base so as not to be touching the same area of the chess piece, wearing glove or using other materials to do the lifting are other alternatives.