Trying to pay traffic ticket from two years ago...

jkust

Ok, so I traveled to Ireland from the States two years ago and received a ticket in the mail for speeding 9 kph over the limit. The ticket was actually sent to an address I no longer lived in (my license address was outdated). Anyway, by the time I received the forwarded ticket I believe my 56 payment date was already almost over. To make a long story short, I pretty much completely forgot about it until it showed up in a box after a recent move.

In an attempt to be a responsible citizen (albeit extremely late), I want to pay...but after emailing the police station that requested the payment, they said it was past the date (obviously) and that it was in the court process. She advised to contact them (police) if I heard anything further. Well, they haven't made an attempt to contact me in over two years, and I'd like to call them if possible to clear this up. I know it's going to cost a lot more than the original 120 euro, but I'd prefer to clear it up.

Does anyone have advice as to whom I can call to clear it from the "court process" and not simply wait for them to contact me (which will most likely never happen considering I've moved)?

Thanks!

Losty Dublin

Is this an Irish fixed penalty notice, yeah?

dobman88

Forget about it and donate $120 to charity if you want to clear your conscience

jkust

Losty, you're correct. Fixed penalty, but it's too late to pay. I don't have a EU/Irish license, but don't want any issues if I ever return and would rather clear it up.

Dobman, that's the input I've been receiving lol.

Losty Dublin

jkust wrote: »

Losty, you're correct. Fixed penalty, but it's too late to pay. I don't have a EU/Irish license, but don't want any issues if I ever return and would rather clear it up.

Dobman, that's the input I've been receiving lol.

That would have almost certainly have been a conviction in your absence. Unless you are intending on returning to the jurisdiction then there isn't much you can do.

If it's important enough to you, perhaps make call the Garda station in question and ask the prosecuting Garda or his sergeant and enquirer what the end result was.

jkust

Well the station told me it's in the court process, but I don't know what that means or what I can proactively do about it. It was a long time ago, so I don't know why it wouldn't show some kind of conclusion. What would a "conviction" mean? A higher fine, and can it be closed?

BaronVon

Do you know what county the speeding occurred in? Contact the District Court for the relevant county, and they should be able to give you details.

It's very probable no summons was ever served on you, and lodged in the Courts, therefore I'd imagine they'll have no record of it.

Little CuChulainn

It's likely a summons was issued and could not be served as you had abandoned ship and used an out of date address.

RustyNut

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's likely a summons was issued and could not be served as you had abandoned ship and used an out of date address.

Would this mean the issue is dead?

ezra_pound

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's likely a summons was issued and could not be served as you had abandoned ship and used an out of date address.

In the district court?

A summons would have issued and it would have gone to court. A fine was presumably imposed.

Op ring the Courts service, ask for the fines office and check to see if there's a fine by your name and DOB.

Little CuChulainn

ezra_pound wrote: »

In the district court?

A summons would have issued and it would have gone to court. A fine was presumably imposed.

Op ring the Courts service, ask for the fines office and check to see if there's a fine by your name and DOB.

A summons must be served before it goes to court.

ezra_pound

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A summons must be served before it goes to court.

Yes. But in the district court it goes out in the post to the address that the car is registered. That is the service- ordinary post. So service would have been successful as far as the court was concerned.

The likelihood is that a court fine was imposed and the op was convicted.

newacc2015

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/four-out-of-five-drivers-escape-conviction-over-penalty-points-1.2373593

OP read this article. There is a loophole with speeding tickets at the moment. If you want to do something do. Just write a check to your local soup kitchen

ezra_pound

jkust wrote: »

Ok, so I traveled to Ireland from the States two years ago and received a ticket in the mail for speeding 9 kph over the limit. The ticket was actually sent to an address I no longer lived in (my license address was outdated). Anyway, by the time I received the forwarded ticket I believe my 56 payment date was already almost over. To make a long story short, I pretty much completely forgot about it until it showed up in a box after a recent move.

In an attempt to be a responsible citizen (albeit extremely late), I want to pay...but after emailing the police station that requested the payment, they said it was past the date (obviously) and that it was in the court process. She advised to contact them (police) if I heard anything further. Well, they haven't made an attempt to contact me in over two years, and I'd like to call them if possible to clear this up. I know it's going to cost a lot more than the original 120 euro, but I'd prefer to clear it up.

Does anyone have advice as to whom I can call to clear it from the "court process" and not simply wait for them to contact me (which will most likely never happen considering I've moved)?

Thanks!

Just to clarify - neither the fixed penalty notice nor the summons would have been sent to your 'outdated license' address but rather the address that the vehicle was registered at with the department of transport.

This is the address that the summons would have been sent to.

I know that this is probably the outdated licence address but technically it has nothing to do with your licence address.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Little CuChulainn

ezra_pound wrote: »

Yes. But in the district court it goes out in the post to the address that the car is registered. That is the service- ordinary post. So service would have been successful as far as the court was concerned.

The likelihood is that a court fine was imposed and the op was convicted.

You are incorrect. A summons does not go in ordinary post. It has to be sent by registered post or delivered by hand by a Garda.

ezra_pound

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are incorrect. A summons does not go in ordinary post. It has to be sent by registered post or delivered by hand by a Garda.

Is that so?


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/summons.html

For non-payment of fixed charge fines

When you are issued with a fixed charge notice for a road traffic offence and you fail to pay the fine within the time allowed, a summons is automatically issued and sent to you by ordinary post. This process does not require a Garda to apply for the summons to be issued, because the summons is triggered by non-payment of the fixed charge fine.

Little CuChulainn

ezra_pound wrote: »

Is that so?


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/summons.html

For non-payment of fixed charge fines

When you are issued with a fixed charge notice for a road traffic offence and you fail to pay the fine within the time allowed, a summons is automatically issued and sent to you by ordinary post. This process does not require a Garda to apply for the summons to be issued, because the summons is triggered by non-payment of the fixed charge fine.

If you read the court rules that your source links to you will see that it must be delivery by hand or registered post.

ezra_pound

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you read the court rules that your source links to you will see that it must be delivery by hand or registered post.

... And substituted service.

It also refers to service by ordinary prepaid post:

19. Where service of a document is effected by registered prepaid post or by ordinary prepaid post the document shall be deemed to be served upon the person to whom it was directed at the time at which the envelope containing the copy for service would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. The document shall, unless otherwise provided, be deemed to be issued at the time at which the envelope was posted.

ezra_pound

In a gsoc report on fixed penalty system, it was recommended:

"10. The current low rate of summons service is unacceptable. It is unreliable and
inefficient. Many complaints and queries received by GSOC relate to the service of
summonses at addresses that are no longer is use. The system should be reformed
by changing the mode of service to some form of recorded delivery or other
guaranteed system;"

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gardaombudsman.ie/docs/publications/S106FCPSExamination.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiypdHgrMjJAhXI8RQKHcUbA7kQFggzMAg&usg=AFQjCNHvjaRgu_Vg6LRrorwDVXW2iGyucw&sig2=zHJH7yU5QnE_PGNOm_xlTg

Why would they make such recommendation if registered post was used?

It also states:

"It was also noted that up to 40% of cases are adjourned where there is no appearance by
the defendants as the court cannot be satisfied that the defendant was served with the said
summons as it was not served by registered post."

Little CuChulainn

ezra_pound wrote: »

... And substituted service.

Substituted service is a completely different thing altogether.

ezra_pound wrote: »

It also refers to service by ordinary prepaid post:

19. Where service of a document is effected by registered prepaid post or by ordinary prepaid post the document shall be deemed to be served upon the person to whom it was directed at the time at which the envelope containing the copy for service would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. The document shall, unless otherwise provided, be deemed to be issued at the time at which the envelope was posted.

That section is a reference to how much time should be given to assume a letter has been delivered. It doesn't overrule the rules for Gardaí stated at the start which is to deliver a summons by hand or by registered post.

ezra_pound wrote: »

In a gsoc report on fixed penalty system, it was recommended:

"10. The current low rate of summons service is unacceptable. It is unreliable and
inefficient. Many complaints and queries received by GSOC relate to the service of
summonses at addresses that are no longer is use. The system should be reformed
by changing the mode of service to some form of recorded delivery or other
guaranteed system;"

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gardaombudsman.ie/docs/publications/S106FCPSExamination.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiypdHgrMjJAhXI8RQKHcUbA7kQFggzMAg&usg=AFQjCNHvjaRgu_Vg6LRrorwDVXW2iGyucw&sig2=zHJH7yU5QnE_PGNOm_xlTg

Why would they make such recommendation if registered post was used?

It also states:

"It was also noted that up to 40% of cases are adjourned where there is no appearance by
the defendants as the court cannot be satisfied that the defendant was served with the said
summons as it was not served by registered post."

As opposed to letterbox delivery where a Garda puts the summons in the letterbox. Basically GSOC are saying that the letterbox delivery is pointless because courts don't take it as serious as registered post or personal service. To explain, if a defendant doesn't turn up in court and service is by way of personal or registered post then a warrant is generally issued for them. If service is by letterbox then the matter is usually adjourned.