Summons

richy · 04-12-2015 9:13pm #1

Hi there,

I was recently caught with 14 grams of cannabis while driving. My brake lights were not working (on constantly) which I did not realise. Anyway, long story short I got summons today.

So I am being charged with possession of cannabis, permitting someone to possess cannabis in a vehicle I am driving as well as 2 charges for each brake light that is out.

I was taken aback by the charge of permitting someone to possess cannabis when it was myself who had it. I am wondering in yer experience as Gardai what would be the likely outcome of this. I am in college and got the top results in my year(mitigating factors?)

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a solictor (although does not deal with this kind of stuff) and he said that the extra charges are likely to facilitate barganing on pleading guilty?

Is this correct? Am I likely to get the benefit of the probation act?

I am just looking for past experience with this. Its put the ****s into me and Im worried about the outcome. If i get a conviction I cant go to America for erasmus in third year. Looking for some info before Monday if possible.

Cheers

biko · 05-12-2015 4:18pm

Essentially OP wants to hear from others with good experiences to put his mind at ease.
My pov is that cannabis should be legal but that is not the case, and you may be looking at losing driver's license, a large fine and more. It's up to the court.

Shield · 05-12-2015 7:47pm

Moderator comment:

Guys, can we just stick to answering the OP's questions? I don't want to see any more "Get a solicitor" comments, or finger-wagging statements. Answer the questions, or don't post.

-Shield.

richy · 06-12-2015 12:44pm

Shield wrote: »

Moderator comment:

Guys, can we just stick to answering the OP's questions? I don't want to see any more "Get a solicitor" comments, or finger-wagging statements. Answer the questions, or don't post.

-Shield.

Thanks Shield

biko wrote: »

Essentially OP wants to hear from others with good experiences to put his mind at ease.
My pov is that cannabis should be legal but that is not the case, and you may be looking at losing driver's license, a large fine and more. It's up to the court.

I looked up the charge for allowing someone to possession while operating a vehicle section 19(1) I think and you cant lose your licence for it thankfully. Large charitable donation I dont mind its the fine and conviction that I am worried about. As far as I can tell the benefit of the probabtion act can only be applied for one charge and as I have 2 drug charges it seems as I will have one conviction and one probation act at best.

Now my friend who is a solictor said to call a solictor monday and they will call the guard and get the guard to reduce the charges by bargaining but to me that seems like an american plea bargain thing and also less to do with the guard and more to do with the prosecutor. Anyway thanks for the replies so far

ComfortKid · 06-12-2015 12:48pm

14 grams is a half ounce. Surprised you're not being charged with intent to supply. Were you stoned,also surprised you weren't drug tested.

Don't know if you have any previous, but you'll more than likely get a fine.

richy · 06-12-2015 1:17pm

ComfortKid wrote: »

14 grams is a half ounce. Surprised you're not being charged with intent to supply. Were you stoned,also surprised you weren't drug tested.

Don't know if you have any previous, but you'll more than likely get a fine.

A half ounce is not a lot for a regular user. Maximum of two weeks supply which is how I bought it as its way cheaper.

I wasnt stoned I had just finished work.

The guard knew it was for personal use or else he would have searched my house. He did however threaten me with intent to supply charge unless I told him where I got it from etc. I know that proof of intent to supply is needed like scales etc unless it is a very large amount. No previous convictions either.

Can I ask you comfort are you a guard? The reason I ask is because any one who uses cannabis would know that a half ounce is not a particularly unreasonable amount for a regular user yet guards (from the experience of me and my friends) seem to think that it is a large amount or at least act as if it is.

I presumed that guards would have lots of arrests for cannabis and therefore would not think it is such a large amount and also it is highly unlikely any dealer would buy anything less than an ounce to sell. Are guards aware of this or do they genuinely think it is a large amount? A gram a day is not an excessively high amount when in places where it is legal a gram would make up just one joint (with no tobacco).

pablo128 · 06-12-2015 1:28pm

Was there anyone in the car with you? Were you drug tested? If someone was in the car, the garda won't want to get to court only for you to claim it wasn't yours, hence the extra charges. If you weren't drug tested and didn't admit to smoking it, I fail to see how you can be charged with a road traffic offence.

I do know someone who was arrested and drug tested and went to court. A different garda to the original arresting garda turned up for whatever reason. My friend told the judge he was just a passenger, and just got a 50 euro fine.

ComfortKid · 06-12-2015 1:29pm

richy wrote:

Can I ask you comfort are you a guard? The reason I ask is because any one who uses cannabis would know that a half ounce is not a particularly unreasonable amount for a regular user yet guards (from the experience of me and my friends) seem to think that it is a large amount or at least act as if it is.

No, I'm not a guard, and I am a regular smoker,I smoke about 2 grams a day.The guards can and often do charge with possession to supply for small amounts, I mean the "street value" of that half could be 400 quid in their eyes.

I know its not a large amount, like you said you didn't have a scales or baggies, you've no previous so you might just get a big fine. I can't see him letting you off with a donation to the poor box for 14gram though. I was fined 500 for a gram a few years ago.

richy · 06-12-2015 1:41pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Was there anyone in the car with you? Were you drug tested? If someone was in the car, the garda won't want to get to court only for you to claim it wasn't yours, hence the extra charges. If you weren't drug tested and didn't admit to smoking it, I fail to see how you can be charged with a road traffic offence.

I do know someone who was arrested and drug tested and went to court. A different garda to the original arresting garda turned up for whatever reason. My friend told the judge he was just a passenger, and just got a 50 euro fine.

Ya I had two friends with me. One was back from the UK and the other from OZ. They are both gone back now.

So once in court and I admit it was mine the extra charge will probably be dropped?

The RT offence is from having a defective brake lights. They were on constantly. The fuse for the brake lights is under the glove box in my car and passengers feet can knock it loose. It is literally a two second job to fix (found out after being stopped) and now that I know there is an issue with it I check my brake lights often.

The guard never said anything about the brake lights other than get them fixed. I didnt think I would get a summons from him for it.

ComfortKid wrote: »

No, I'm not a guard, and I am a regular smoker,I smoke about 2 grams a day.The guards can and often do charge with possession to supply for small amounts, I mean the "street value" of that half could be 400 quid in their eyes.

I know its not a large amount, like you said you didn't have a scales or baggies, you've no previous so you might just get a big fine. I can't see him letting you off with a donation to the poor box for 14gram though. I was fined 500 for a gram a few years ago.

Ok I see. Ya i think the street value of it now is 350 but it fluctuates as far as I know. Hopefully I will just get a donation. I know people caught with a lot more get left off but they probably co-operated whereas I did not. Also the extra charges for no brake lights make me seem like a serial flaunter of laws and wouldnt look great I reckon. Were you fined 500 or donated 500 for no conviction? Fine means conviction, donation means no conviction. Thankfully, as far as I can tell the judges seem to have gotten alot more lenient with possession in recent years plus I am in a city

richy · 06-12-2015 1:44pm

I am having some ****ty weekend too lol. I stepped in dog **** friday, then saw the summons, then crashed my van and also lost 50 quid. Have been having nightmares the last 2 nights about the guards arresting me and am waking up in a ball of sweat haha. Have exams monday and I couldnt study friday night because I was shook up over receiving the summons haha. Looking forward to Monday!!

Little CuChulainn · 06-12-2015 9:12pm

There is a power under the Road Traffic Act for a judge to give a disqualification if a vehicle is used in the commision of a crime. In your case the transport of cannabis and allowing your vehicle to be used for the preparation/use of cannabis. You mention you were not cooperative. Depending on how uncooperative you were, I wouldn't rely on a charge being used for leverage if you were a dick to the Garda.

ComfortKid · 06-12-2015 9:13pm

Little CuChulainn wrote:

There is a power under the Road Traffic Act for a judge to give a disqualification if a vehicle is used in the commision of a crime. In your case the transport of cannabis and allowing your vehicle to be used for the preparation/use of cannabis. You mention you were not cooperative. Depending on how uncooperative you were, I wouldn't rely on a charge being used for leverage if you were a dick to the Garda.

I think by uncooperative, he means he didn't rat out his dealer.

richy · 06-12-2015 9:34pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There is a power under the Road Traffic Act for a judge to give a disqualification if a vehicle is used in the commision of a crime. In your case the transport of cannabis and allowing your vehicle to be used for the preparation/use of cannabis. You mention you were not cooperative. Depending on how uncooperative you were, I wouldn't rely on a charge being used for leverage if you were a dick to the Garda.

As comfort said. I was very polite to the gardai just didnt help them to bust someone else. Has that being used much do you know? I remember reading about some politician (maybe lucinda creighton) saying that should be implemented to stop rural burgularies but I thought that was very recently and had not been implemented.

richy · 06-12-2015 9:37pm

ComfortKid wrote: »

I think by uncooperative, he means he didn't rat out his dealer.

Comfort, has the conviction for possession that you have affected job applications/mortgage applications/insurance etc?

pablo128 · 06-12-2015 10:54pm

richy wrote: »

Comfort, has the conviction for possession that you have affected job applications/mortgage applications/insurance etc?

It won't affect insurance (unless you are charged with a road traffic offence) or a mortgage application. It may well affect your job and travel prospects.

duckduck1991 · 06-12-2015 11:38pm

ComfortKid wrote: »

14 grams is a half ounce. Surprised you're not being charged with intent to supply. Were you stoned,also surprised you weren't drug tested.

Don't know if you have any previous, but you'll more than likely get a fine.

Oh please intent to supply ..Dunno what country ur living in

richy · 07-12-2015 12:04am

pablo128 wrote: »

It won't affect insurance (unless you are charged with a road traffic offence) or a mortgage application. It may well affect your job and travel prospects.

Thanks. I am aware of job and travel implications. Apparently motoring convictions mean you are unlikely to get a visa for the states. Bit ridiculous to have a court appearance for brake lights. Doesnt make any sense that its not a fixed penalty or points issue.

duckduck1991 wrote: »

Oh please intent to supply ..Dunno what country ur living in

One of the fellas in the car with me was convicted of sale and supply for 4 grams because he said half of it was for his friend. He didnt know any better and they slapped him with a sale conviction. This was down the country though with judge notorious for being very anti cannabis.

richy · 08-12-2015 12:11pm

Ok so today did not go well at all. He basically said that the one he is worried about is using a vehicle in commission of a crime (possession) as I could lose my licence. Genuinely freaked now over this. I was hoping I might be able to get the probation act but I think he said its outside possibility (as in the realms of).

Little CuChulainn · 08-12-2015 12:39pm

I presume you have a solicitor at this stage.

richy · 08-12-2015 12:41pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I presume you have a solicitor at this stage.

Ya but we only spoke for a minute. He said we would speak more coming up to the court date but that is not till March.

TallGlass · 08-12-2015 12:51pm

Intent to supply ! People here need to chill out.

Firstly, start cleaning up from the beginning.

Get the brake lights on the car sorted, and get proof that this has been done. Bring this to court, admit they where faulting and you have got them fixed.

Regards the weed, maybe enroll yourself in some drug aware program and again show this to the judge, and seriously cut off the stuff don't be driving around with that amount in your car.

Show the judge your taking active steps against your charges.

richy · 08-12-2015 12:55pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I presume you have a solicitor at this stage.

TallGlass wrote: »

Intent to supply ! People here need to chill out.

Firstly, start cleaning up from the beginning.

Get the brake lights on the car sorted, and get proof that this has been done. Bring this to court, admit they where faulting and you have got them fixed.

Regards the weed, maybe enroll yourself in some drug aware program and again show this to the judge, and seriously cut off the stuff don't be driving around with that amount in your car.

Show the judge your taking active steps against your charges.

Thanks for reply Tallglass. I have the brakes sorted alright and can get proof of it I suppose. Would that just be a receipt?

The lawyer said to get a piss test and I am going to get one this week as I havent smoked in over a month. I had already seriously cut down during college but was "celebrating" after finishing exams. I really dont want to have to do drug counselling with a load of proper addicts (heroin etc). Would piss test alone cut it ya reckon? Have you some experience in this?

Any idea about whether Im likely to be disqualified?

TallGlass · 08-12-2015 1:03pm

richy wrote: »

Thanks for reply Tallglass. I have the brakes sorted alright and can get proof of it I suppose. Would that just be a receipt?

The lawyer said to get a piss test and I am going to get one this week as I havent smoked in over a month. I had already seriously cut down during college but was "celebrating" after finishing exams. I really dont want to have to do drug counselling with a load of proper addicts (heroin etc). Would piss test alone cut it ya reckon? Have you some experience in this?

Any idea about whether Im likely to be disqualified?

Yeah receipt for the break lights, and been honest that's a fairly serious safety issue.

Get a piss test, say you have given it up (which I would recommend, so you don't land yourself in another situation like this), you don't have to go to that type of counselling there's others NA etc..

No experience of these issues, but just wanted to give my share on it, rather than others on the high horses as usual. If you know any Garda ask them for there advise they see this day in day out.

As for a driving ban, it depends on what the punishment is for the offence, if you can get banned for the offence then there's always a possibility you can get banned, but it depends on the judge.

richy · 08-12-2015 1:27pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Yeah receipt for the break lights, and been honest that's a fairly serious safety issue.

Get a piss test, say you have given it up (which I would recommend, so you don't land yourself in another situation like this), you don't have to go to that type of counselling there's others NA etc..

No experience of these issues, but just wanted to give my share on it, rather than others on the high horses as usual. If you know any Garda ask them for there advise they see this day in day out.

As for a driving ban, it depends on what the punishment is for the offence, if you can get banned for the offence then there's always a possibility you can get banned, but it depends on the judge.

Thanks Tallglass. I have pretty much given it up. I know two garda alright from the pub i used work in (Owner was a ex guard) but it is my dads local and dont wanna be asking them about it unless they could get the guard to not turn up or reduce charges or something haha

Summons

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