Depreciation

from_atozinc

Hi

Just looking in carzone, I see one can pick up a 2012 Nissan Leaf for about 13,500.......seems to be a fair aul bit of depreciation in 3 years.

Any particular reason for this - is the battery out of warranty after 3 years or does it deteriorate or something ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Hi

Just looking in carzone, I see one can pick up a 2012 Nissan Leaf for about 13,500.......seems to be a fair aul bit of depreciation in 3 years.

Any particular reason for this - is the battery out of warranty after 3 years or does it deteriorate or something ?

It could also be a U.K import, these usually go cheaper due tot he flood if ex PCP leases. It's becoming a problem for a lot of car makes there.

from_atozinc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It could also be a U.K import, these usually go cheaper due tot he flood if ex PCP leases. It's becoming a problem for a lot of car makes there.

Ok thanks. But in general, do the batteries in these cars go wonky after 3 years ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Ok thanks. But in general, do the batteries in these cars go wonky after 3 years ?

Generally there are very little issues with the leaf, but the 2011-2013 (132) reg batteries didn't fair up as well as the MK 1.5 2013 July + built leafs.

You might lease a Leaf SV with cold pack if you do little mileage for about the same as you'd pay back a bank loan.

Check out the PCP rates. And you get a warranty.

The current 2013 July + batteries are holding up extremely good.

You could loose a capacity bar, or roughly 15% capacity in the Mk 1 after 60-70 K miles compared to 100,000 miles in the current Leaf loosing 0.

A U.K Taxi was recorded having 90% after 104,000 miles but 1,700 or so fast charges. That's still a good 80-100 Kms range in winter or 100-110 Kms Summer at 100-110 Kph.

If however, you do little mileage then the 2011-132 leaf could serve you a long time, the battery doesn't die but it looses it's ability to hold a full charge as when new and this may or may not be a problem for you depending on how far you take the car to the range limit often.

The 132 July + built leafs had a change to the battery chemistry to make them much more durable.

If you get a Mk I leaf try restrict fast charger usage and especially getting the battery above 7 battery temperature bars frequently.

from_atozinc

Thanks for reply.

Are "fast charges" only available at special public locations ? Or can this facility be installed in ones personal home home also ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks for reply.

Are "fast charges" only available at special public locations ? Or can this facility be installed in ones personal home home also ?

Yes the 45 Kw fast chargers are only available in Public locations. Way too powerful for home use and mostly not necessary.

Most of the time you will charge up on cheap night time electricity if you get the night meter installed.

If you were to use night rate electricity it would cost about 300 Euro's for 20,000 Kms.

Charging at home can be done in less than 7 hrs

The newer gen leaf with the optional 6.6 Kw charger can charge in about 3.5 Hrs.

the original MK I had the 3.3 Kw charger but it will be fine for the majority of usage. Just set your timer to come on when the cheap rate kicks in or an hour or two after and set the end timer to stop just before the day rate leccy kicks in.

BoatMad

Given Nissan is saying the gmfv after 90k km on a 16 SV is under 10k. 13k is good going. Nissan don't have much faith in their own car it seems

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Given Nissan is saying the gmfv after 90k km on a 16 SV is under 10k. 13k is good going. Nissan don't have much faith in their own car it seems

I'd be surprised if they allow more than 25,000 Kms per year, that's the max I could get.

They can write off some excess but I'm not banking on it.

The GFMV is the rock bottom price they expect to sell it on for. It will usually be worth more.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they allow more than 25,000 Kms per year, that's the max I could get.

They can write off some excess but I'm not banking on it.

The GFMV is the rock bottom price they expect to sell it on for. It will usually be worth more.

Ive been offered 90 k

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Ive been offered 90 k

Where ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Where ?

Nissan Wexford. GMFV took a pasting , down from 9.5 k at 20,000 km per annum to 7.5K for 30,000 per annum

Which is why I made the residuals comment , Nissan put a GMFV value of seven and a half k on a car retailing at 24 k after 90 k kilometre and three years


That's way way below equivalent diesels. And makes the pcp numbers horribly expensive

from_atozinc

Ye have lost me now with the jargon ; )

My next question was going to be how much would it cost on electricity for an overnight charge. But sounds it only costs a few cents.........but you have to install some special night meter.

BoatMad

GMFV. Is the final value the garage assigns the car after three years for the purposes of deciding the PCP finance rates.

Overnight charging on night rates metering is about 2 euros sometimes less

cros13

from_atozinc wrote: »

have to install some special night meter.

You don't "have" to install anything.
Why we quote figures on a night rate meter is because most people get one.

A nightrate meter is free, all you have to do is request one from your provider.
The consequence of the night rate meter is electricity during the day will cost you about 1c more per unit but electricity for a nine hour period at night will cost you 8c less. Since you'll be charging an EV overnight it makes sense to get the night rate meter. The car has a timer that you can set so that it starts charging the minute the night rate comes on.

If you haven't negotiated you electricity rates in a while, now is the time to do so. Many people find that their new day unit rate is less than their current unit rate.

Without the nightrate meter your electricity will cost you 5-6 times less than diesel instead of 10-12 times less.

If I have the battery completely empty (which is basically never):

My BMW i3 costs €1.20 to charge 0-100% on night rate. I get 150-180km out of this.
My Nissan Leaf costs €1.40 to charge 0-100% on night rate. I get 140-160km out of this.

A few times a month I charge on day rate because I want to use the car later in the day. The same amount of power costs roughly double on the day rate.
Most of the time on days when I'm doing more than the cars range I rapid charge along the way and would have some of the power from that left in the battery at the end of the day.

from_atozinc

cros13 wrote: »

You don't "have" to install anything.
Why we quote figures on a night rate meter is because most people get one.

A nightrate meter is free, all you have to do is request one from your provider.
The consequence of the night rate meter is electricity during the day will cost you about 1c more per unit but electricity for a nine hour period at night will cost you 8c less. Since you'll be charging an EV overnight it makes sense to get the night rate meter. The car has a timer that you can set so that it starts charging the minute the night rate comes on.

If you haven't negotiated you electricity rates in a while, now is the time to do so. Many people find that their new day unit rate is less than their current unit rate.

Without the nightrate meter your electricity will cost you 5-6 times less than diesel instead of 10-12 times less.

If I have the battery completely empty (which is basically never):

My BMW i3 costs €1.20 to charge 0-100% on night rate. I get 150-180km out of this.
My Nissan Leaf costs €1.40 to charge 0-100% on night rate. I get 140-160km out of this.

A few times a month I charge on day rate because I want to use the car later in the day. The same amount of power costs roughly double on the day rate.
Most of the time on days when I'm doing more than the cars range I rapid charge along the way and would have some of the power from that left in the battery at the end of the day.

Thanks for that.

Regarding the night rate meter, is this something that has to be physically installed in the house or just an update to ones account ?

shanemkelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Where ?

I got 90k km on the PCP from Windsor Belgard back in Feb too...

I'm going to blow that out of the water if my current usage continues though (33k in less than 9 months )

shanemkelly

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Regarding the night rate meter, is this something that has to be physically installed in the house or just an update to ones account ?

As was mentioned earlier, ring your provider and they'll install a night meter for free. If (for some mad reason) you wish to get rid of the night saver meter after installation, it could cost you around €200...

Some of the newer meters have the "dual tariff" capability already built in so perhaps it's more of an "activation" than an "installation" in those cases.
Regardless, my brand new "dual tariff" meter was installed without anyone being at home, so it's no inconvenience...

cros13

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Regarding the night rate meter, is this something that has to be physically installed in the house or just an update to ones account ?

It depends, if you have one of the new smart meters they just update the account.
If you need the meter replaced they are required by law to do so within 7 days.

Either way there is no charge to change to a night rate meter. The night rate meter is an incentive to move more of your power usage to times when the grid has excess capacity and wholesale electricity is cheaper.

As a side benefit, since wind speeds are also higher at night, you get more of your electricity (for the last month more than 50%) from renewables.

from_atozinc

shanemkelly wrote: »

As was mentioned earlier, ring your provider and they'll install a night meter for free. If (for some mad reason) you wish to get rid of the night saver meter after installation, it could cost you around €200...

Some of the newer meters have the "dual tariff" capability already built in so perhaps it's more of an "activation" than an "installation" in those cases.
Regardless, my brand new "dual tariff" meter was installed without anyone being at home, so it's no inconvenience...

Thanks for clarification.

Now in regard to the charging point. Is this installed inside or outside the house ?

If you were to buy a 2nd hand EV, I presume you have to foot the bill to install the charging point - if so, what is the rough cost of this ?

cros13

from_atozinc wrote: »

Now in regard to the charging point. Is this installed inside or outside the house ?

It's weatherproof.

from_atozinc wrote: »

If you were to buy a 2nd hand EV, I presume you have to foot the bill to install it - if so, what is the rough cost of this ?

Yes, you can buy a Rolec here for about €400: https://www.yesss.co.uk/heating-ventilation-c5/ev-charging-c1694/charge-points-c1695/rolec-ev-home-commercial-charge-wallpod-32a-type-2-evwp2026-p23238

Installation is the same work as installing an outdoor socket on a new circuit. Any electrician can do it.

from_atozinc

cros13 wrote: »

It's weatherproof.



Yes, you can buy a Rolec here for about €400: https://www.yesss.co.uk/heating-ventilation-c5/ev-charging-c1694/charge-points-c1695/rolec-ev-home-commercial-charge-wallpod-32a-type-2-evwp2026-p23238

Installation is the same work as installing an outdoor socket on a new circuit. Any electrician can do it.

Saucy enough.

If you buy a new car, does the dealer cover the cost of this ?

mr.dunkey

from_atozinc wrote: »

Saucy enough.

If you buy a new car, does the dealer cover the cost of this ?

There is a grant for a home charger if the car is a First time registration, some dealers give them out to ex demos as the grant has not been used.
If your buying a 2012 LEAF you can get a cheap 16 amp charger tethered (with cable attached or untethered (you need a public charging cable) around 400 euro if you know where to look.
Which one you get is all depends on you, some people will argue one is better than other. your choice.

from_atozinc

This is probably a really stupid question, but what is the story with servicing and oil , oil filters etc.

It has moving parts so presume needs oil or am I totally wrong ?

cros13

from_atozinc wrote: »

This is probably a really stupid question, but what is the story with servicing and oil , oil filters etc.

It has moving parts so presume needs oil or am I totally wrong ?

Not really. Apart from the gearbox oil which gets changed every 150,000 km.

There is an optional annual "service", but it's really just a visual inspection and costs €99. Every couple of "services" they change the pollen filter and top up the brake fluid for you.

in the case of my i3 the first "service" isn't due until 2017.

mr.dunkey

from_atozinc wrote: »

This is probably a really stupid question, but what is the story with servicing and oil , oil filters etc.

It has moving parts so presume needs oil or am I totally wrong ?

Nissan normally do service for €99 as a deal. they just change the Pollen Filter, They may change wipers, brake fluid but wil be extra. If out of warranty i wouldn't worry about dealer, but if in warranty still, good to keep the dealer stamps.

Considering the cost of the servicing or inspections i would always have dealer stamps in a car like the Leaf because It will get any firmware updates if available. And it's handy to have a record of mileage.

from_atozinc

What are they like when left out overnight on a very cold frosty night ?

cros13

from_atozinc wrote: »

What are they like when left out overnight on a very cold frosty night ?

No problem. Remember the Leaf's largest european market is Norway. There are quite a few + rapid chargers well inside the artic circle.

The Current Gen Leaf from July 2013 has a battery heater that comes on at -17 Deg C and switches off at -10 once it's plugged in.

The heater will most likely never activate in Ireland.

They could have made it switch off at something like 10 deg C which would have made a big difference to fast charging and a small difference to range, unfortunately the leaf battery has absolutely 0 cooling so they probably thought it was better not to allow it heat up too much but having it switch off at -10 is a bit extreme if you ask me.

I would hate to use a fast charger with a battery temp of -10 !

cros13

Found out recently that the battery pack in the eNV200 is actually hooked to the air conditioning compressor to cool the battery.
Apparently Nissan decided that the eNV200 would face more frequent rapid charging.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Found out recently that the battery pack in the eNV200 is actually hooked to the air conditioning compressor to cool the battery.
Apparently Nissan decided that the eNV200 would face more frequent rapid charging.

Yes that's correct, the NV200 has an AC cooled pack, don't know if it can heat it ?