breed replacements or buy in?

simx

well lads, will have 45 cows caling down in spring, doing a lot of thinking what direction to go regarding replacement heifers for future, will be stocked at nearly capacity on grazing platform, will be taking silage from other land away and sucklers on other ground, first off im not getting rid of sucklers ha, was wondering wheter to run a Hereford bull on all cows and sell all calves next spring say circa 220e av between bulls/heifers-€9900, (I know there probably will be losses but leave that figure as it is for the moment), and buy in replacement heifers calved/springing at what say circa €1500/hd, say 6 repalcements for the sake of it-€9000, say I have 6 culls to put against these at maybe €550/hd out of the parlour in the backend-€3300+€9900 from calf sales-€9000 replacement heifer cost=€4200, other thing I was thinking off was tail paint and ai the first 15 cows and let off Hereford bull with remainder, only thing id probably need to rent a bit of extra land to keep these replacement heifers and make extra silage, I would be able to chooses best straws alright but I would be wary about id if in a panic some morning I might miss a heat or something, probably would be ok in general and would probably tail paint in parlour, wouldn't like the idea of a cow waiting to be ai`d half the day in the crush because I don't do ai myself, would it be worth it to have my own bred replacements or what?

Feckthis

simx wrote: »

well lads, will have 45 cows caling down in spring, doing a lot of thinking what direction to go regarding replacement heifers for future, will be stocked at nearly capacity on grazing platform, will be taking silage from other land away and sucklers on other ground, first off im not getting rid of sucklers ha, was wondering wheter to run a Hereford bull on all cows and sell all calves next spring say circa 220e av between bulls/heifers-€9900, (I know there probably will be losses but leave that figure as it is for the moment), and buy in replacement heifers calved/springing at what say circa €1500/hd, say 6 repalcements for the sake of it-€9000, say I have 6 culls to put against these at maybe €550/hd out of the parlour in the backend-€3300+€9900 from calf sales-€9000 replacement heifer cost=€4200, other thing I was thinking off was tail paint and ai the first 15 cows and let off Hereford bull with remainder, only thing id probably need to rent a bit of extra land to keep these replacement heifers and make extra silage, I would be able to chooses best straws alright but I would be wary about id if in a panic some morning I might miss a heat or something, probably would be ok in general and would probably tail paint in parlour, wouldn't like the idea of a cow waiting to be ai`d half the day in the crush because I don't do ai myself, would it be worth it to have my own bred replacements or what?

I'd say keep it simple. Run the bull with the cows and buy in replacements.

barnaman

Lads I see who are "master farmers" buy in replacements as you get exactly what you want and difficult to breed both replacements and terminal type. Also if buying in I think in future will buy in Genomically tested heifers/cows as more certain what are and star rating. IT may all be BS but rules of the game. Also if tested have to be what they are meant to be. Exa,ple my own herd heifers bulled with AI but neighbours bull broke in certain half calves out of him. Card will say an AI bull but if tested would I am certain be a completley differnt bull.

Louthmouth1

Buy in the very best every time. You get exactly the type you want.

whelan2

What about diseases and farmers very often dont sell their top stock. If breeding your own stock at least you know what you are bringing in to your herd.

Louthmouth1

Several farmers are happy to sell good youngstock often several at a time. By breeding your own is fine regarding disease free but only a small percentage are of good enough quality to retain for breeding purposes therefore on some occasions depending on numbers required it's better to buy. I know agents in Roscommon that supply my Uncle x10 - x15 at a time all the same shape and size.

Farrell

I know some with an attitude, sell a weanling for €900 & buy back a springer for €1100/1200

Personally I prefer to breed myself, but as highlighted I'm waiting 24 months for a return (24+age to sell calf), while other sees a return the following year

simx

All cows incalf to beef this year but still think strong about whether I'd be better off ai'ing 15 best cows to good fr and have a good idea what I have, lots of incalf heifers for sale around but am always thinking lads don't sell they're best but another mans ok heifer might be my best one after a few years of breeding

visatorro

simx wrote: »

All cows incalf to beef this year but still think strong about whether I'd be better off ai'ing 15 best cows to good fr and have a good idea what I have, lots of incalf heifers for sale around but am always thinking lads don't sell they're best but another mans ok heifer might be my best one after a few years of breeding

I think if you can build a relationship with a fella you buy off the whole time you're not too bad. Stock will be treated as well as his/her own. That to you is worth a couple of 100 euro a head I think. If buying off a well managed herd things will be right.
If your looking at journal/donedeal you still can't say 100% you know what your buying. Auctions are a disaster to buy at imv.
Are you finishing the beef cattle?

simx

visatorro wrote: »

I think if you can build a relationship with a fella you buy off the whole time you're not too bad. Stock will be treated as well as his/her own. That to you is worth a couple of 100 euro a head I think. If buying off a well managed herd things will be right.
If your looking at journal/donedeal you still can't say 100% you know what your buying. Auctions are a disaster to buy at imv.
Are you finishing the beef cattle?

Yeah I get what ya mean, bought some this year 1050-1150 nice heifers and seen cows from his herd before and nice cows good milkers, talking to another lad nearer today with v nice br fr cows 1400 gal herd 3.65p and 4.3 bf sold a handful heifers today for 1060 would love to of bought them this man is very good stockman and well into breeding, sell all calves here, nice few bob early in spring

Icelandicseige

There was a dairy sale in Kilkenny today. Anyone know what spring calving heifers and cows went for?

simx

Icelandicseige wrote: »

There was a dairy sale in Kilkenny today. Anyone know what spring calving heifers and cows went for?

The heifers I mentioned above were in it I wasn't there was just told after

visatorro

simx wrote: »

Yeah I get what ya mean, bought some this year 1050-1150 nice heifers and seen cows from his herd before and nice cows good milkers, talking to another lad nearer today with v nice br fr cows 1400 gal herd 3.65p and 4.3 bf sold a handful heifers today for 1060 would love to of bought them this man is very good stockman and well into breeding, sell all calves here, nice few bob early in spring

Were you using ai or a bull with the cows this spring. If you were using a bull then Ai is another job to do, you seem to have a streamlined system. You won't rear stock for 1060 so buying decent ones at that is value

simx

visatorro wrote: »

Were you using ai or a bull with the cows this spring. If you were using a bull then Ai is another job to do, you seem to have a streamlined system. You won't rear stock for 1060 so buying decent ones at that is value

Used ai for the first 3 weeks or so then let bull off, only used ai not to have bull under pressure

cute geoge

There was over supply of heifers on the market last spring and looks likewise the coming year so easy pick up calved heifers for 1000-1150. More then likely they will be in short supply in a couple of years time though so the price will be nearer to 2k rather then 1 k at present

Timmaay

Anyone with some Feb calving br fr/xbred heifers for sale feel free to pm me!

Corkfarmer

I was thinking about this and was thinking of putting everything in calf to AI Belgian Blue for the first six weeks and then leave off a polly bull for the rest of the season, sell all calves and buy in replacements. Would help with cashflow for a start up operation anyway.

Mooooo

Corkfarmer wrote: »

I was thinking about this and was thinking of putting everything in calf to AI Belgian Blue for the first six weeks and then leave off a polly bull for the rest of the season, sell all calves and buy in replacements. Would help with cashflow for a start up operation anyway.

Would Ai any first lactation to an easy AA during the first 6 weeks, other than that your way would be a good way to go, dbz or one of those proven bb bulls would be good and may attract a premium as would be mainly going against fr bulls in mart early in the year

Corkfarmer

Mooooo wrote: »

Would Ai any first lactation to an easy AA during the first 6 weeks, other than that your way would be a good way to go, dbz or one of those proven bb bulls would be good and may attract a premium as would be mainly going against fr bulls in mart early in the year

I suppose it all depends on the availability of replacements. I think there was an increase use in beef on dairy last year so that could drive up the cost of replacements this time next year but who knows!

Mooooo

Simx have you thought any more about how you will manage replacements going forward? Have you a regular source for replacements or would you look around?

The part time boy

Louthmouth1 wrote: »

Several farmers are happy to sell good youngstock often several at a time. By breeding your own is fine regarding disease free but only a small percentage are of good enough quality to retain for breeding purposes therefore on some occasions depending on numbers required it's better to buy. I know agents in Roscommon that supply my Uncle x10 - x15 at a time all the same shape and size.

so your saying if he breeds his own only a small fee will be good enough . And your also saying other farmers will sell you good stock. What do the farmers selling surplus replacements do with the not so good stock .

For the op is is cash flow , extra labour , limited land or profit that steering you ?

Mooooo

The thing would be to source from those selling stock every year. I would pay extra if for example was given the pick of the bunch. Finding the right stock obviously is important. About balancing out what works really

The part time boy

Ya I was not saying you can't buy good quality stock.

I was just picking up on louthmouth saying one min that u can buy good stock and then 2 secs latter telling the op if you breed your own stock only a "small percentage " will be good enough.

I agree with his first comment but not his 2nd.

If your going down that road finding the right person to buy from is key.