Sale completed two months ago, solicitor seeking more money

RuailleBuaille

Hi all. I signed contracts for my new home in early September. I received the keys end of October, very happy and all is going well so far! The solicitor sent her bill to me a couple of weeks before I got the keys, this covered her fee, land registry fee, stamp duty etc. The bill was paid and I thanked my lucky stars I (hopefully) wouldn't have to deal with another solicitor for the foreseeable.
Got a phone call yesterday (a month after moving into house) that solicitor had made a mistake and I owe another almost 200 Euro more for Land registery. Can anyone tell me if this is usual, adding more to a bill that had been settled? I have budgeted my money and there's nothing to spare for at least the next two months. Obviously I don't want to get on the wrong side of a solicitor but I am not sure what to do and would appreciate any advice. Do I have to pay and if so, would it be ok to wait until the new year? Thanks in advance.

MentalMario

I'd say you do have to pay.

I'd also say you should talk to the solicitor. Maybe spread the cost over a couple of months. They'll understand. After all, they made the initial mistake so they should give you a bit of leeway on time.

johnnyskeleton

Possibly its the fee for registerring a mortgage if that happened after the initial transfer. The solicitor should explain exactly what its for and if it was necessary work that you asked for then yes you have to pay.

Addle

Land registry fees are prescribed. I'd question why the solicitor couldn't tot them up correctly in the first instance.
Then pay.

Mrs OBumble

Ask for an invoice and written explanation of the issue: the cheek of just giving you a phone call! That should delay it til the New Year.

Then say your budget allows you to pay E20 per month from January on.

antoinolachtnai

This is a cost that has incurred by the solicitor. It is outside his control. He has to pay it up-front. He, too needs money for Christmas.

RuailleBuaille

Thank you everyone for your responses. I will write a letter to the solicitor explaining my situation and ask her to explain hers (via mail!) and will pay in January. To antoinolachtnai, I paid exactly what the solicitor invoiced me: the error was hers, which she acknowledged. Telling me that she needs money for Christmas is of no use to anyone and I would think that getting the figure right is entirely in her control. Isn't that what I paid her for?

Arbiter of Good Taste

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

Thank you everyone for your responses. I will write a letter to the solicitor explaining my situation and ask her to explain hers (via mail!) and will pay in January. To antoinolachtnai, I paid exactly what the solicitor invoiced me: the error was hers, which she acknowledged. Telling me that she needs money for Christmas is of no use to anyone and I would think that getting the figure right is entirely in her control. Isn't that what I paid her for?

People make mistakes. It's not the crime of the century.

Writing letters seems a tad antagonistic.

To be honest, it was decent of her to ring you about it and deal with it personally. Would you have preferred an anonymous letter randomly arriving in the post. Pay your bills.

Dubwat

I don't think it's as simple as 'pay your bills'.

OP hired a professional for their services, which in most cases is relatively routine. I believe the Law Society issue a standard booklet/checklist that solictors work through. If the solicitor got the final invoice wrong, maybe she got other things wrong as well?

A simple mis-price when buying a pint of milk wouldn't upset me, a mistake on a €100k+ property transaction would worry me. We don't know at this distance but if the solicitor is looking for €200 for 'land registry fees' now, who owned the property between early Sept and now?

RuailleBuaille

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

People make mistakes. It's not the crime of the century.

Writing letters seems a tad antagonistic.

To be honest, it was decent of her to ring you about it and deal with it personally. Would you have preferred an anonymous letter randomly arriving in the post. Pay your bills.

I didn't mention a crime. I made a query because usually when I am invoiced for a service and pay the bill, that's the end of it.

She didn't ring me, her secretary rang me.

I thought I had paid my bills and I've said I'm going to pay it, why is writing a letter antagonistic? I really don't want any aggro with a solicitor!

antoinolachtnai

I think you are being very reasonable OP. My remark was in relation to something someone else said. Sorry it came off the wrong way.

It is very reasonable for you to expect an invoice which provides an explanation in writing and I am sure you will get one in the next few days. You could wait for that before contacting them with any queries.

April 73

A phone call saying you owe an extra €200 isn't really good enough.

Ring the solicitor or the secretary & ask for a new complete breakdown on the total costs of the purchase for clarity. Ask for an invoice to be sent to you in writing, for your records.

Even if the error was the solicitor's, the cost of land registry is your cost & you will have to pay it, assuming it is now the correct figure.

Wait for the invoice to arrive. You would normally have some time to pay this. I don't see a big problem if you have to make payment early in the New Year. Or alternatively offer to pay now & half later.

Pink Fairy

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

I didn't mention a crime. I made a query because usually when I am invoiced for a service and pay the bill, that's the end of it.

She didn't ring me, her secretary rang me.

I thought I had paid my bills and I've said I'm going to pay it, why is writing a letter antagonistic? I really don't want any aggro with a solicitor!

You owe the money, you have to pay, ring the secretary and arrange a payment plan that is acceptable to both parties, that's the end of it then

pwurple

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You owe the money, you have to pay, ring the secretary and arrange a payment plan that is acceptable to both parties, that's the end of it then

Eh no. If someone phones me and asks me for money for something I had already paid for, I would be asking a few questions too.

You probably have the original itemised invoice OP. Pull it out and see if the land registry is in it. If it is, and you paid that in full, you need to go in and see what is going on. Where did your money go.

Pink Fairy

pwurple wrote: »

Eh no. If someone phones me and asks me for money for something I had already paid for, I would be asking a few questions too.

You probably have the original itemised invoice OP. Pull it out and see if the land registry is in it. If it is, and you paid that in full, you need to go in and see what is going on. Where did your money go.

Eh, no, OP recognises the fact that the bill needs to be paid, posturing and antagonistic behaviour will not help.
Contact the solr, sort a payment plan, and all ends well

Hemerodrome

There is no way I would hand over money based on a verbal demand from a receptionist for an addition to a bill that's already been paid. I would want a written explanation/breakdown and Bill, signed by the solicitor themselves, before I'd consider paying.

The tone of some of the answers here is pathetic, solicitors are just people, you don't hand over money 'cos you'd fear getting on the wrong side of them, it's either a legitimate bill or they can **** off.

Pink Fairy

Hemerodrome wrote: »

There is no way I would hand over money based on a verbal demand from a receptionist for an addition to a bill that's already been paid. I would want a written explanation/breakdown and Bill, signed by the solicitor themselves, before I'd consider paying.

The tone of some of the answers here is pathetic, solicitors are just people, you don't hand over money 'cos you'd fear getting on the wrong side of them, it's either a legitimate bill or they can **** off.

I see no reason why a bill wouldn't be supplied, don't think anyone has suggested otherwise?!?
But if OP is foolish enough to go back with an eff off attitude, then it will get messy.
If the money is owed it has to be paid, or is that not clear to you?

OP did you get a quotation before you started? I understand that the Law Society advice to solicitors now is to always give conveyancing clients a breakdown of costs in advance. If you have this, then compare your invoice with it and query any discrepancies. The Land Registry fees are fixed fees and I would be surprised if they had been forgotten about.

Anyway, if these fees have been omitted, you owe this money and should pay it. However there is no need to rush this and you should only pay on receipt of an official invoice, certainly not on the basis of a phone call.

Solicitors are not renowned for speed themselves. On my last transaction I was called in to sign the deed, six weeks after getting the keys and paying them the stamp duty, and when I thought the transaction was long completed.

Riverireland

OP, what was tht total charge of th bill? Do people not agree the price with the solicitor before they engage them? I always did the handful of times I used them, wouldn't opperate any other way.

Pink Fairy

From what we can determine from OP so far
Money has been asked for
OP hasn't denied money is owed.
Everything else is conjecture on our part

looksee

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

Hi all. I signed contracts for my new home in early September. I received the keys end of October, very happy and all is going well so far! The solicitor sent her bill to me a couple of weeks before I got the keys, this covered her fee, land registry fee, stamp duty etc. The bill was paid and I thanked my lucky stars I (hopefully) wouldn't have to deal with another solicitor for the foreseeable.
Got a phone call yesterday (a month after moving into house) that solicitor had made a mistake and I owe another almost 200 Euro more for Land registery. Can anyone tell me if this is usual, adding more to a bill that had been settled? I have budgeted my money and there's nothing to spare for at least the next two months. Obviously I don't want to get on the wrong side of a solicitor but I am not sure what to do and would appreciate any advice. Do I have to pay and if so, would it be ok to wait until the new year? Thanks in advance.

Yes, you probably will have to pay. Not because you don't want to get on the wrong side of a solicitor, but because you (possibly) owe money.

Do you owe money? You need to get further (written) information from the solicitor.

Courtesy? The solicitor should contact you personally, and send an itemised invoice for the amount they claim is outstanding - preferably with an apology for the error.

Should you have time to pay? You could certainly offer to pay in due course, over a couple of months say, after Christmas. This is something to calmly but firmly discuss and agree with the solicitor.

Hemerodrome

Pink Fairy wrote: »

From what we can determine from OP so far
Money has been asked for
OP hasn't denied money is owed.
Everything else is conjecture on our part

The OP hasn't "denied" money is owed because they're unsure if money is owed, there's very little conjecture in the thread, mostly advice on asking for clarification from the solicitor and not just jumping to pay with no proper information, as you instructed her to do.

oneweb

I'm far from a legal background, but requesting a detailed printed invoice from a solicitor is not being antagonistic or causing fuss in any way. What's to say when/if you go to sell the property that this amount of money is found not to have been settled back in 2015 due to there being no paper trail of proof of the initial demand and subsequent receipt? And as another poster has said, who legally has owned the land in that time? I'd take a phone call as merely a polite heads-up before an official document arrives in the post to be acted upon.

IMO, the OP is doing the right thing.

Victor

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Would you have preferred an anonymous letter randomly arriving in the post.

Anonymous letters don't usually ask for money.

December2012

Normally the quote is an estimate of outlay. Best practice would have been that this should have been confirmed as soon as they saw your title documents and contracts. Sometimes a planning search can be more expensive than originally thought because the agents only give a quote when doing the search.

There may be local property tax or management fees to be apportioned.

Pay off what you can when you can, but find out if your paperwork has been submitted to the Land Registry, because they might not be able to do it without the funds.

seamus

As others have said, yes the solicitor is entitled to this money. It's not the same as the solicitor deciding that their fees are actually €200 more - these are expenses incurred on your behalf without profit, so it's a debt repayable by you.

And yep, ask for a proper breakdown of what this cost is for. And be honest - you're absolutely broke after moving in (everyone is broke after buying, your solicitor will know this), with Xmas coming up you have nothing to spare at the moment and this €200 was not budgeted for.

Come up with a plan and tell them that plan. You've just bought a house so €200 isn't in the "half a month's salary" region for you, so come up with a reasonable plan for repayment. €20 a month suggested earlier is nonsense, you can afford more than that. Do your own figures, but if you go back to them and tell them that you can send over €100 at the end of January and February, they should be happy enough. You've already paid the rest of the bill, so they've no reason to think you won't pay, and by coming up with a plan you're showing them that you intend on sorting it out anyway.

For €200 they're not going to sue you, but they can ring you every week to annoy you. Tell them when their money is coming and they won't bother you and there won't be any animosity.

athtrasna

Mod note A number of off topic posts have been deleted. Please stick to helping out the OP rather than arguing with other posters on thread.

foggy_lad

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I see no reason why a bill wouldn't be supplied, don't think anyone has suggested otherwise?!?
But if OP is foolish enough to go back with an eff off attitude, then it will get messy.
If the money is owed it has to be paid, or is that not clear to you?

What if the op decides the standard and level of accounting from the solicitor is not good enough and complains to the law society? That is something I would be doing if a solicitor- a professional person looked for "more" after their bill was settled with a full & final payment.

Hemerodrome

Pink Fairy wrote: »

I didn't say pay the money blindly, now you're just making stuff up

Are you for real? This is the entirety of your first post in the thread: "you owe the money, you have to pay, ring the secretary and arrange a payment plan that is acceptable to both parties, that's the end of it then".

It was bad advice, but denying you said it when it's there for all to see just bizarre.

OP, I hope the thread has actually been some help and you think before you pay the money, but I'd urge you to ignore some of the contributions which some posters seem to be making up as they go along.

Rachiee

Wow that is such poor form from the solicitor, those fees are pre set and should have been looked up in advance of billing. Really really unprofessional, **** happens and as such it's pay it but I'd expect and apology and flexibility on when you can pay considering it was their **** up

RuailleBuaille

Thanks everyone, this A&P forum has been so brilliant over the course of this whole house buying process, I could have made several silly mistakes if not for all the info here. Thank you to everyone who takes time out of their lives to share, it really is so useful.

If it was me I wouldn't pay it, tough luck if they can't add up the bill correctly when they sent it out it the first place.

Arbiter of Good Taste

foggy_lad wrote: »

What if the op decides the standard and level of accounting from the solicitor is not good enough and complains to the law society? That is something I would be doing if a solicitor- a professional person looked for "more" after their bill was settled with a full & final payment.

Thanks for the laugh.

Short of stealing vast sums of money from client accounts, the Law Society will not do anything.

It's amazing how many people have never made a mistake in their lives. I wish I was so perfect.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Thanks for the laugh.

Short of stealing vast sums of money from client accounts, the Law Society will not do anything.

It's amazing how many people have never made a mistake in their lives. I wish I was so perfect.

In fairness, stealing any sum of money from client accounts and they will get involved pronto.

But overcharging, inefficiency, interminable delays, poor advice...naah.

RuailleBuaille

Just an update in case anyone wanted closure!
Sent email to solicitor explaining that I would pay after Christmas as I hadn't factored the additional cost into my budgeting. Received a reply today to say there had been a mix-up with invoices while she was away and not to worry about it, no need to pay anything. I thought that was very decent and am happy out now! Thanks to everyone for your time!