Flat full of excrement (news)

rawn · 26-11-2015 5:27pm #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html

Judge Sean O'Donnabhain in Cork Circuit Criminal Court was told that the excrement had caused enormous damage to the flat.
All the floor-boards had to be ripped up and replaced.
The entire flat had to be cleaned and fully redecorated involving all ceilings, walls and floors.
Kummer had been remanded on bail following his plea to allow him raise compensation for the landlord involved.
However, the court was told that, despite lengthy adjournments, he had raised only €800 despite being in good employment.

I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!

hytrogen · 26-11-2015 5:32pm

To the Gallows (or Australia) for those haneous crimes! Sadly yet another reason not to get into the property market..

CarolynSmith · 26-11-2015 5:36pm

Even Australia at the time of transportation wouldn't have accepted that idiot!

rawn · 26-11-2015 5:37pm

hytrogen wrote: »

To the Gallows (or Australia) for those haneous crimes! Sadly yet another reason not to get into the property market..

Exactly. There's no incentive for landlords to risk it, there just seems to be no accountability. I'm sure the LL would rather the money be paid back (plus compensation) rather than see him jailed. How is he supposed to pay it back in prison?

MarkAnthony · 26-11-2015 6:48pm

rawn wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html

I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!

Becuase it's a debt to a business and they're not considered a major priority in the scheme of things. (Rightly or wrongly)

handlemaster · 26-11-2015 7:39pm

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html

Truely shocking behaviour and the Landlord is still out of pocket to the tune of 15k

Just noticed threat on this. Please delete this thread

handlemaster · 26-11-2015 7:47pm

How many such strange criminal activity is done by tenants that never makes it to court as the knows they will never get justice.

cml387 · 26-11-2015 7:51pm

***HEAD EXPLODES**

This is something we don't usually associate with Germans or Apple.

MarkAnthony · 27-11-2015 1:15am

cml387 wrote: »

***HEAD EXPLODES**

This is something we don't usually associate with Germans or Apple.

Dunno about anyone else but strange toilet behaviour is certainly something I associate with ze Germans!

Not sure what Apple has to do with anything.

The Sidewards Man · 27-11-2015 1:18am

Social media may have been a factor.

rawn · 27-11-2015 4:24am

I'm strangely glad, if anything, that it was a working tenant, rather than a RA tenant.

Cuddlesworth · 27-11-2015 11:16am

rawn wrote: »

I'm strangely glad, if anything, that it was a working tenant, rather than a RA tenant.

Not sure it makes a difference, he's not a scumbag tenants in the true sense. He clearly has mental health issues.

MarkAnthony · 27-11-2015 11:22am

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not sure it makes a difference, he's not a scumbag tenants in the true sense. He clearly has mental health issues.

As do many people needing the support of RA. I'm not having a go but it's interesting to see the differing attitudes just because he sat at a computer 7-8 hours a day rather than in front of the telly.

seamus · 27-11-2015 11:49am

I think people are generally sympathetic towards anyone engaging in hoarding of any kind, as it indicates some kind of mental health issue. This case is particularly extreme, but I don't think anyone would say, "Ah typical scummy RA tenants" for this kind of case.

The surprise about him working is probably more shock at how in the hell he managed to function.

The compensation is pretty pathetic, as others have said it's considered a debt payable to a business, not a private individual. Ultimately any losses on the landlord's part may be reclaimable against tax bills and such. Whereas a private individual is straight out of pocket.

Cuddlesworth · 27-11-2015 11:50am

MarkAnthony wrote: »

As do many people needing the support of RA. I'm not having a go but it's interesting to see the differing attitudes just because he sat at a computer 7-8 hours a day rather than in front of the telly.

There is a difference between the guy who collected months of excrement and the person who bought a puppy and let it destroy the furniture/floors. Or had months of house parties, put holes through every wall, broke every fixture and left drug paraphernalia everywhere. Or the person who wasn't arsed paying for bin charges, so put everything in the back garden for a year. Or the person who couldn't be arsed reporting a water leak until the floor collapsed, then moved and lodged a PRTB case for unsuitable dwellings.

I've dealt with a person with significant mental health problems(like killing your ferret and writing things on the wall in its blood) and a lazy/malicious person who games the system and stops paying rent or maintaining the property. There isn't enough of a grey area to even remotely compare the two.

handlemaster · 27-11-2015 1:06pm

seamus wrote: »

I think people are generally sympathetic towards anyone engaging in hoarding of any kind, as it indicates some kind of mental health issue. This case is particularly extreme, but I don't think anyone would say, "Ah typical scummy RA tenants" for this kind of case.

The surprise about him working is probably more shock at how in the hell he managed to function.

The compensation is pretty pathetic, as others have said it's considered a debt payable to a business, not a private individual. Ultimately any losses on the landlord's part may be reclaimable against tax bills and such. Whereas a private individual is straight out of pocket.

Thats ok so.....

Caliden · 27-11-2015 1:13pm

Can the landlord not pursue a civil case separately to recoup costs?

The landlord is screwed for now but would he not have a case further down the line?

Grab All Association · 27-11-2015 1:29pm

A former <SNIP> neighbour of mine did the same thing. If you went out my back on a cold morning and you choked on the smell of urine. He used to piss in Coke bottles, milk cartons, basins etc. I know a landlord in Nenagh who have had tenants who urinate in bottles too. Seems to be always tenants from <SNIP>.

Could he be the urine bandit http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/cork-indepndent-not-taking-the-piss-e50-reward-for-outing-bottled-urine-bandit/28183

tinkerbell · 27-11-2015 2:02pm

Wasn't there a thread on boards a while back with this exact same problem? In that case, the OP's flat mate was storing urine in bottles. Revolting.

MarkAnthony · 27-11-2015 9:14pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There isn't enough of a grey area to even remotely compare the two.

Perhaps not in the scenario you describe but there's plenty of other scenarios which don't fit nicely into black and white.

There is not disputing the fact that RA or no RA there's mentally ill people out there. One set get the benefit of the doubt, another set do not for no other reason than personal prejudice.

CollyFlower · 27-11-2015 11:47pm

This sort of behavior is not uncommon, even with people who own their homes.

Azalea · 29-11-2015 1:43am

rawn wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-apple-worker-37-jailed-for-causing-15000-worth-of-damage-to-luxury-flat-by-storing-excrement-and-urine-there-for-three-months-34237410.html

I don't understand how tenants can get away with causing so much damage and paying back at their own rate. Shouldn't they be court ordered to pay X amount per month until it's all paid back?!

How did he get away with it though? He got jailed.

rawn · 29-11-2015 2:02am

Azalea wrote: »

How did he get away with it though? He got jailed.

The landlord is 15k out of pocket. He should not have been jailed, he can't pay back from prison, that's what I was aiming at, not that he got away.

Taco Chips · 29-11-2015 3:29am

The man clearly had mental health issues. All this talk of "being made pay it back" is being dense. He was not at capacity and I think the jail sentence itself is extremely harsh and symptomatic of the major problem in this country with people who are suffering from serious psychological issues being thrown into jail instead of receiving the proper care they need. It's extremely unfortunate that the landlords insurance doesn't cover the damage and I'm feel awful for them because they're out of pocket. But this is just a bad situation all around.

handlemaster · 29-11-2015 10:27am

Taco Chips wrote: »

The man clearly had mental health issues. All this talk of "being made pay it back" is being dense. He was not at capacity and I think the jail sentence itself is extremely harsh and symptomatic of the major problem in this country with people who are suffering from serious psychological issues being thrown into jail instead of receiving the proper care they need. It's extremely unfortunate that the landlords insurance doesn't cover the damage and I'm feel awful for them because they're out of pocket. But this is just a bad situation all around.

If you read the article there is no mention of in ability to pay. It Reads like he has the money but choose not to pay.

Taco Chips · 29-11-2015 12:42pm

handlemaster wrote: »

If you read the article there is no mention of in ability to pay. It Reads like he has the money but choose not to pay.

I did read the article. Talking about ability to pay here is again not comprehending the overarching issue. The man is not well.

29-11-2015 2:20pm

Taco Chips wrote: »

. The man is not well.

This is making excuses. I don't care how fecked up he is that shouldn't exempt him from paying what he owes. Giving some people a free pass is a big issue in this county and it's being demonstrated in this thread also.

The money should have been taken from his directly, leave him enough to pay rent and eat the rest should have just been taken from him every month. After destroying that place he moved to one of the nicest and most expensive apartment complexes in cork if he could afford that he could afford to pay his debts.

Taco Chips · 29-11-2015 4:17pm

Casey Scrawny Oats wrote: »

This is making excuses. I don't care how fecked up he is that shouldn't exempt him from paying what he owes. Giving some people a free pass is a big issue in this county and it's being demonstrated in this thread also.

The money should have been taken from his directly, leave him enough to pay rent and eat the rest should have just been taken from him every month. After destroying that place he moved to one of the nicest and most expensive apartment complexes in cork if he could afford that he could afford to pay his debts.

A policy where this man got the help that he needs instead of being thrown into jail would be a much better outcome for everyone. Better insurance for landlords would also help in this instance. It's a freak case, that's why there are headlines.

29-11-2015 5:06pm

Taco Chips wrote: »

A policy where this man got the help that he needs instead of being thrown into jail would be a much better outcome for everyone. Better insurance for landlords would also help in this instance. It's a freak case, that's why there are headlines.

I actually don't really agree with jail in this instance either but for the simple reason that he should be working to pay off his debts rather than sitting in jail and his former LL being out of pocket.

athtrasna · 29-11-2015 5:13pm

Casey Scrawny Oats wrote: »

I actually don't really agree with jail in this instance either but for the simple reason that he should be working to pay off his debts rather than sitting in jail and his former LL being out of pocket.

The article suggests he was working and not poorly paid but was making next to no effort to repay the debt.

Flat full of excrement (news)

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