Plans to introduce adjustable speed limit on m50

pippip

The government are planning to convert the m50 so the speed limit can be adjusted depending on volume. Similar to m25 in the uk.

Honestly don't think it will work round the ballymount-Lucan area but might help elsewhere.

At least it's some sort of action to tackle it. I heard last week the m50 volumes are the highest they've ever been.


http://www.herald.ie/news/plans-to-change-m50-speed-limits-at-peak-times-in-bid-to-tackle-increased-traffic-jams-34224592.html

delahuntv

Legislation to allow average speed detection cameras is winding its way through the dail. Once that's in force you'll find schemes like this working.

No longer will a camera van be usef, just 2 setsof cameras and if your average speed between them exceeds the limit, you get fined.

It also works out lane jumping.

Eric Cartman

this will only work if the upper limit can be changed. 140km/h at night would be appropriate for the middle and right lanes of the m50.

CountingCrows

delahuntv wrote: »

It also works out lane jumping.

Please explain

Atlantic Dawn

If they put up ANPR cameras to check for valid motor tax and insurance it would be a better way to reduce traffic on the M50.

Terrontress

Lower speeds mean less stopping distance which means less congestion. If the limits are enforced, I think it will be a great idea.

Jesus.

Half the time you can't even get up to the speed limit on the M50

Sh1tbag OToole

They should just float Dublin off to sea. About half way between Ireland and Wales, wouldn't want to traumatise the Welsh by attaching it to their land

Mister Jingles

delahuntv wrote: »

Legislation to allow average speed detection cameras is winding its way through the dail. Once that's in force you'll find schemes like this working.

No longer will a camera van be usef, just 2 setsof cameras and if your average speed between them exceeds the limit, you get fined.

It also works out lane jumping.

If this was introduced on the m50 it would work very well. There is a big section along the m6 in the UK that have this at the moment due to road works and everybody was obeying it when I was on it recently.

visual

delahuntv wrote: »

Legislation to allow average speed detection cameras is winding its way through the dail. Once that's in force you'll find schemes like this working.

No longer will a camera van be usef, just 2 setsof cameras and if your average speed between them exceeds the limit, you get fined.

It also works out lane jumping.

Too optimistic a view.
It will result in lots of speeding fines
Very reduced speed limits will be used to control congestion with the hope it will avoid phantom stops and crashes.
This will increase journey time considerably for all users as average speed is already low due to volume of users and where junctions are close together traffic is already at a stop.

Take Nass road ballymount exits the volume of traffic in rush hour trying to merge stops flow

Lane jumping as you put it might be frustrating but it's not illegal unless dangerous driving can be detected or crossing solid white lines hatch markings. Something that's very difficult with fixed camera.

I see idiots enter a slip lane just after an exit and drive all the way to next exit and brake hard to jump back into main traffic on motor way it hard to separate them from the other idiot who legally can enter motor way at junction drive all the way in slip lane and then at last min brake hard and join motor way at the next exit.

It will follow dublin city approach delay traffic further out with badly timed lights and encourage them to use public transport by more and more restrictions.

We all want to drive our cars it's time the idiots making decisions treated motorist as valued customers rather than something stuck on their shoe.

M50 has from its very conception been one big cluster ****. With nearly every exit having either a roundabout or traffic lights at end exit slip.

City has out grown the M50 a new motorway is needed and if they are smart it will be build for real traffic projections and not throwing hands in air and say no one could predict current traffic volumes.

Enough of my ranting just don't think variable speed will do much more than introduce variable speed cameras

Henry Ford III

Speed limits are ok as they are.

The M50 needs firm and even enforecement of all motoring laws. Right now it's an unregulated free for all.

Pedro K

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this will only work if the upper limit can be changed. 140km/h at night would be appropriate for the middle and right lanes of the m50.

No. Not at all. That would encourage improper lane use.

Eric Cartman

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they put up ANPR cameras to check for valid motor tax and insurance it would be a better way to reduce traffic on the M50.

I think those should be on all dual carriageways and motorways, at the on / off slip roads. it would really fix a lot of traffic issues.

Also some sort of camera system that detects people with no lights on at night. that would be a serious money spinner and actually fix a real road safety problem.

Carawaystick

There are already variable speed limits on the M50. Its just they're underground.

Mycroft H

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this will only work if the upper limit can be changed. 140km/h at night would be appropriate for the middle and right lanes of the m50.

Ha. That'll never work

delahuntv

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they put up ANPR cameras to check for valid motor tax and insurance it would be a better way to reduce traffic on the M50.

That's been used for well over 3 years - why do you think the number of tax and insurance checkpoints have dropped.

Garda can sit on a raised ramp and anpr can check 5 vehicles a second.

Cookie_Monster

so just more unenforced limits?

There won't be any enforcement, just like there isn't now and nothing will change...

Terrontress

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so just more unenforced limits?

There won't be any enforcement, just like there isn't now and nothing will change...

Enforcement is the key to this. While it's often impossible to get to the existing speed limit, people have it in their mind to get there and accelerate, get too close, brake heavily and cause a ripple effect behind them.

If you know you're being monitored and anything above 50km/h will get you a ticket people will fall into a more relaxed pattern and it will solve a lot of congestion.

A lot of problems on the M50 are not about the road design, but about the drivers.

Utdfan20titles

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

They should just float Dublin off to sea. About half way between Ireland and Wales, wouldn't want to traumatise the Welsh by attaching it to their land

Agreed.
Dublin is a kip.

screamer

If people using the m50 could actually drive it'd help. Some of the worst most aggressive and arrogant drivers I've ever encountered whilst driving on the m50 and removing all the tolls, red cow etc seems to have removed their cop on too. Too much boot and not enough brain engaged when driving.

mfceiling

How do you solve the problem that I had on Sunday? Followed an oul one in a punto down the slip road at tallaght heading southbound. She never went above 60kmh and proceeded to drive straight in to the middle lane and stay at 60kmh.
I'd say at least 30 - 40% of drivers believe that the correct lane to drive in is the middle one. Stop those nonsense signs telling me it's 6 mins to j7 and replace with flashing text...STAY IN THE FIRST LANE UNLESS OVERTAKING

Del2005

delahuntv wrote: »

That's been used for well over 3 years - why do you think the number of tax and insurance checkpoints have dropped.

Garda can sit on a raised ramp and anpr can check 5 vehicles a second.

Insurance database doesn't exist so they pulled it from ANPR, they must not turn it on for tax if you look at the windows of cars in carparks.

Variable speed limits won't make a difference at rush hour, as traffic doesn't move fast enough. When traffic can move having Gardaí enforcing keep left would be more beneficial than a camera, at least then the road would be able to operate to its capacity instead of just 2 of the 3 lanes.

seamus

Del2005 wrote: »

Variable speed limits won't make a difference at rush hour, as traffic doesn't move fast enough.

The answer here is that it seems to work elsewhere. And we're not special, what works elsewhere should work here.

Large variations in speed are as much an issue as congestion - when people get a piece of open road, they put their foot on the floor, and then have to jam on, and the accordion effect disrupts traffic flow.

Imagine you drive half a KM @ 100km/h, then encounter traffic, hit the brakes and complete that KM @ 60km/h. Average for that KM is 80km/h, right? Yes, for you. But not for people behind you. Half a KM behind you, the ripple effect of other drivers all slamming on to slow down means that the guy at the back has had to slow down to 20km/h to avoid crashing. Half a KM behind him, the traffic is at a standstill.
But if you set the speed limit @ 80km/h, then the traffic will flow more smoothly - if you even encounter the 60km/h traffic at all, you won't have to jam on, and thus there is no traffic jam 1 km behind you.

One of the major causes of congestion though is merging. People getting on and off the slip roads, but also people changing from lane 1 to lane 2 (and 2 to 3) to make room. Lower speeds means that merging is easier and when some numpty does make a last minute change, you're less likely to have to jam on because you won't be going so fast.

That's the theory and it works elsewhere. There's no reason why it wouldn't work on the M50.

Enforcement is key and apparently the plan is to enforce it through cameras on the gantries. Legally a minefield though I think, and rife for loopholes and get-out clauses. In issuing a fine, not only would they have to prove you were driving above the limit, they would have to prove that speed limit was shown to you a reasonable distance before the speed camera. That is, if you joined at the red cow and they attached the camera to the first speed limit sign you saw, that would be unenforceable. The camera would have to be a few hundred metres after the sign.

I suspect they'll probably pilot it without cameras for the first few months to see how it goes. As far as I can tell the camera lines @ Firhouse on the M50 are still effective even though everyone knows they're not in use.

ARGINITE

It would be a waste of time without the cameras, as with the M25 here no one pays any attention to the speed limits until limits are shown on the gantry displays and the cameras are then activated.

neddynasty

They could do with introducing a system like that on the N40 in Cork during rush hour.

keithclancy

It's about time

If you decrease the speed limit during heavy congestion then the average speed will increase.

Stop/Start driving creates a ripple effect for kilometers back down the queue of traffic.

fullstop

Jesus. wrote: »

Half the time you can't even get up to the speed limit on the M50

Which is the reason this is being looked at...

ironclaw

We're actually working on a system at the moment but one metric is tracking the average speed of the car. On the M50, in the morning, the average speed is actually usually under 60km/h. I'm all for variable speed limits, they do work. Bring it down in the morning to 70km/h, and have all the lanes crawling. At least then those merging might be encouraged as at a lower speed, perhaps people will be encouraged to leave a larger gap and those merging might up their merge speed a shade. Rigorously enforce the speed limit and tax / insurance / NCT. You'll see the difference in a week. On the flip side, the road should be 120km/h at night when conditions allow.

I've said it before but I genuinely believe lane one should be a solid line 500m, during and 500m after each junction. It will leave all the silly business in lane one, bad merging, stop those jumping into lane 2 as they 'just HAVE to be in the middle lane ASAP' and keep lane 2 and 3 moving by reducing the junction induced ripple. It will also discourage those that snap in at the last minute and encourage people to think ahead if they want to exit. This is readily enforceable by camera and given how underutilized lane 1 is anyway, its not a loss on the overall flow or volume capacity.

Alternatively, lane 3 should be an express lane between major junctions like car pool lanes in the US. It might encourage those in lane two to move left when they realise they are holding up those that can't use lane 3 and wish to overtake. Again, heavy handed enforcement needed.

Oh, and stop the exploding trend of crossing hatched areas. Its beyond a joke at Tallaght going southbound.

As much as it pains me to say it, education is a small part of the solution here. There has to be action either in fines or lane markings, or both. People don't give a toss, that much is clear.

BigEejit

The gantries on the M25 that have the speed signs do not all have speed cameras on the other side .... some of them do, but most regular commuters know where they are and only slow for those ones. End result is that the congestion is as bad as ever with hours of start stop.

The A12 to the east of London had plenty of speed cameras and people slowed down for them and then booted it again after. So it was congested all the flipping time (boot it, slow down sharply for slower traffic, 50 cars back the cars have stopped)

So they put in average speed cameras (no roadworks, these are there permanently) and the traffic flows much better.... big improvement.

biko

Ban cars on M50 and only allow mopeds. Problem solved.


*stir, stir*

BraveDonut

By extension I also think that the speed limit on the M11 should be reduced.

(It pains me to say this as I use this road constantly and outside of rush hour).

At the M50/M11 merge traffic is slowing:
1) from the merge itself
2) from the reduction in speed at Kilmacanogue.

Its soul destroying to sit every day, dead-stopped on a dual carriageway/motorway when you know that the next traffic control (roundabout) is beyond Gorey - 50 miles away.

AndyBoBandy

Variable speed limits are the way forward. (I was only thinking about this last week)

I drove 400 miles last Wednesday/Thursday on the M25 at speeds set from 40mph to 70mph, and the traffic was constantly moving at the set speed limits at all times.

and as much as I hate average speed checks, they do work, and once you have cruise control on, they don't seem so bad (except if your on an empty road).

ironclaw

BraveDonut wrote: »

By extension I also think that the speed limit on the M11 should be reduced.

(It pains me to say this as I use this road constantly and outside of rush hour).

At the M50/M11 merge traffic is slowing:
1) from the merge itself
2) from the reduction in speed at Kilmacanogue.

Its soul destroying to sit every day, dead-stopped on a dual carriageway/motorway when you know that the next traffic control (roundabout) is beyond Gorey - 50 miles away.

Its actually not Kilmacaongue that's the issue, traffic is flowing by then and its 80km/h southbound. Its the inability for people to merge at the M50/ M11, again at Fassaroe and then around Bray South. The quick succession of Fassaroe / Herbert Rd (Lots of braking before leaving the N11) and then the hill up to Kilmac (Where no one anticipates and accelerates) is the bigger problem in reducing speed and causing ripples.

Titzon Toast

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

They should just float Dublin off to sea. About half way between Ireland and Wales, wouldn't want to traumatise the Welsh by attaching it to their land

How original.
Don't forget, Dublin subsidises the rest of the country.
Your roads, streetlights, dole, etc.
Your username suits you.

BMJD

RPGs and machine guns are the way forward. It gets things moving in GTA and that's less of a cluster****.

Jesus.

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

They should just float Dublin off to sea. About half way between Ireland and Wales, wouldn't want to traumatise the Welsh by attaching it to their land

Let me guess........... A Cork man? :P

hoodie6029

ironclaw wrote: »

Oh, and stop the exploding trend of crossing hatched areas. Its beyond a joke at Tallaght going southbound.

They've put static cones on the M50 northbound where it splits for Malahide and the M1 city bound. Had a nice chuckle to myself as I saw a BMW stranded on the hatched marking trying to get over to the Malahide Road yesterday morning!

I'm not sure about this, even at a crawl i constantly see drivers accelerating to car in front, brake then repeat while i just feather the accelerator.

Irish drivers love to break at any occasion. See the overhead sign warning there is a slowdown... Brake, see a car in the next lane brake... brake, going down the slight hill before tallaght...brake, catch up with the car in front..brake, in lane 1 and coming up to merging traffic...brake.

Its amazing how much the traffic can flow better if a driver will read whats ahead and decelerate/accelerate seamlessly. The less red lights the better.

Seesee

This would also have an impact on air quality in Dublin especially around the M50. Braking increases pollution. In Austria the speed limit on motorways is lowered when the level of pollution in the air hits a certain limit, the same principle applies in that lower speed means less accordion effect.

biko

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

They should just float Dublin off to sea. About half way between Ireland and Wales, wouldn't want to traumatise the Welsh by attaching it to their land

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

Agreed.
Dublin is a kip.

I'm sure there is a thread in AH for you, let's keep this on m50 speed limits.

Jesus.

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

Agreed.Dublin is a kip.

I'm sure Sh1tbag's part of Cork is like Beverly Hills :rolleyes:

Valetta

Seesee wrote: »

This would also have an impact on air quality in Dublin especially around the M50. Braking increases pollution. In Austria the speed limit on motorways is lowered when the level of pollution in the air hits a certain limit, the same principle applies in that lower speed means less accordion effect.

It also has an adverse effect on your wallet.

I can never understand people unnecessarily braking and accelerating in congested traffic.

Costs a fortune in parts and fuel, for absolutely no return.

delahuntv

Del2005 wrote: »

Insurance database doesn't exist so they pulled it from ANPR, they must not turn it on for tax if you look at the windows of cars in carparks.

Variable speed limits won't make a difference at rush hour, as traffic doesn't move fast enough. When traffic can move having Gardaí enforcing keep left would be more beneficial than a camera, at least then the road would be able to operate to its capacity instead of just 2 of the 3 lanes.

Works very well on A1 in Northern Ireland especially at rush hour.

Its the few eejits speeding in heavy traffic and lane jumping / undertaking that cause a lot of accidents.
The specs system catches ALL speeders over a set distance - no use slowing for 200m as per camera vans

Jesus.

Valetta wrote: »

It also has an adverse effect on your wallet.I can never understand people unnecessarily braking and accelerating in congested traffic.Costs a fortune in parts and fuel, for absolutely no return.

Agreed. Same with people bombing up to red lights and then hitting the anchors. Especially on roads with sets of lights only a few hundred yards apart.

AndyBoBandy

Jesus. wrote: »

Agreed. Same with people bombing up to red lights and then hitting the anchors. Especially on roads with sets of lights only a few hundred yards apart.

If I see a set of lights 100 metres ahead going amber, I'll take my foot off the gas, and coast up using as little brake as possible, saves fuel, brake discs etc...
(usually the light will go green just as I was about to apply brake to actually stop).


usually though you'll get some idiot behind you right up your ar$e and you can see his face turning red in your mirror.
people just don't get how flowing traffic works

Professey Chin

hoodie6029 wrote: »

They've put static cones on the M50 northbound where it splits for Malahide and the M1 city bound. Had a nice chuckle to myself as I saw a BMW stranded on the hatched marking trying to get over to the Malahide Road yesterday morning!

Discovered last night they made a big mistake with this. They left enough space between the end of the cones and the barrier for a car to fit through so people still skip.

Jesus.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If I see a set of lights 100 metres ahead going amber, I'll take my foot off the gas, and coast up using as little brake as possible, saves fuel, brake discs etc...
(usually the light will go green just as I was about to apply brake to actually stop).usually though you'll get some idiot behind you right up your ar$e and you can see his face turning red in your mirror.
people just don't get how flowing traffic works

Very true. Feckin' headcases

Sh1tbag OToole

Jesus. wrote: »

Very true. Feckin' headcases

These days you can see some of 'em filling up with rage when you stop for an actual red light.

AndyBoBandy

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

These days you can see some of 'em filling up with rage when you stop for an actual red light.

Because despite the light being red for 2/3 seconds, they'd have gone through it. no bother to them.