Farm Labour

kevthegaff

I'm expanding slowly, but there will probably come a time in the next few years where I'll need labour 6 months of the year. Who else will employ extra labour?

freedominacup

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm expanding slowly, but there will probably come a time in the next few years where I'll need labour 6 months of the year. Who else will employ extra labour?

Well then like many other businesses you will have to carry the cost of 12 months labour to have the person you need available when you want them.

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm expanding slowly, but there will probably come a time in the next few years where I'll need labour 6 months of the year. Who else will employ extra labour?

Do you have someone in mind? Where will you source them?

kevthegaff

Nah just wondering how are ye sourcing? Couple of local young lads around would normally be available. I know a lad sourcing from a company, the company pay tax etc and interview applicants from abroad. Works about 15 euros per hour.

Grueller

I am a little different to most in this regard as I am a suckler man and we do not generally employ labour, but I will need to employ some labour at some point in the future.

I farm in partnership with my father who is fit and able at the moment, but in another five years will probably find it hard going. He always worked full time up until the downturn when he lost his job so is at home full time now.

I have a high value off farm job. I would love to be able to pack it in at some stage to farm full time, but as a young man with a very young family to support, that would be an irresponsible thing to do for probably another twenty odd years. This will leave me in a position where I will need some labour in the yard for the winter months in another 5-10 years time. The way I see it is I have two options.

1. I have the option of reducing my hours in work which will have the effect of basically halving my off farm income.

2. Keep the hours up in work while paying somebody to come in for 3-4 hours per day to do the feeding, bedding etc.

Option two would leave me financially far better off and would be a handy little part time job for somebody for the winter as the yard is well set up and as regards bedding there is very little of it to be done. This option would leave me with maybe only an hours work in the evening rather than 4-5. There would also be a tax benefit to the cash paid out in labour.

Question is, how much per hour for somebody to take this on on a contract basis as I am not interested in getting into paye, prsi, USC, holiday pay and all the rest?

kevthegaff

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/employing-labour-is-a-big-challange-for-many-dairy-farmers/ pretty hazy article on a grilled. Know a few young lads in area so okay for next year. But I'm sick of being literally tied to the farm and will need to increase numbers to justify a full time unit. What would ye think up is minimum cow herd, mixture of fr/crossbred to allow this?

stretch film

Theres probably many on here will contradict me but my accountant was very apprehensive about taking on someone on the contract basis . Revenue are cottoning to this . If you can get a guy to take payment on an irregular basis of irregular amounts and furnish you with some version of paperwork then it might be a runner.

Timmaay

Kev your up at the 120 or so mark now already? The one thing I'd say is definitely don't be afraid to cull heavily while you are short on help, especially with the decent cull cow price and poor milk, any problem cows just let them on. Once you got plenty of heifers, or are willing to buy in it takes very little time to build back up again.

But anyways, I know a farmer with 130 cows, between him and his brother who has a similar dairy farm they employ a full time labourer all year around,the labourer does 3days on each farm, and during the busy part of the spring, your man gets a FRS chap the other days of the week. Moving forward I'd certainly consider something similar here.

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/employing-labour-is-a-big-challange-for-many-dairy-farmers/ pretty hazy article on a grilled. Know a few young lads in area so okay for next year. But I'm sick of being literally tied to the farm and will need to increase numbers to justify a full time unit. What would ye think up is minimum cow herd, mixture of fr/crossbred to allow this?

120 cow herd one man show with good facilities and some relief milking and a guy 1 day a week during spring .to justify a full time labour unit after that u need to go to 170/180 to justify it ,in the middle is somewhat in limbo

Bass Reeves

Farm labour will be the big issue down the line. The question I always would I advise my son to work in such a situation. Non national labour is flavour of the months on the Veg farms.Do not know what turnover of staff is like but the ability to speak the landuage is an issue. When they learn the landuage these workers can look for work elsewhere.

If the contracting company is charging 15/hour for labour they must be paying the lad less than 10/hour. You will have a situation where you will have different operatives different day and having to train them in over and over again. As well not sure if I would leave a lad like that in charge of the place if I was gone for a weekend or abroad for a week

Greengrass1

A man same age as my father here this morning. Milking double what we are and just generally chatting.
They have a lad 4/5 days a wk and he was of the opinion if your can do the 100 cows on your own you'll be as well of as any one.
100 ciws is not enough here but I reckon we can do it with bring in a relief milker in the spring and doing maybe 5/6 milkings a wk.
Possibly be talking about 260 head of stock between cows calves and heifers in 2 yrs time

visatorro

I remember ten years ago people said there was a shortage of labour because farms couldn't compete with wages on the building, while others were furthering their education. during the recession I don't think there was a massive return to the farm gates looking for work.
some people say the family farm is on the way out. but i believe that say two brothers milking 200+ cows is the ideal situation. time off, some one you can rely on because they will benefit as much as you from hard work. also during lean times you can plough on for a month or so if needs be without drawing much of a wage. can you do this by hiring someone.
also this notion that a beef farmer can help lads during the spring is far from a rule of thumb and i'd wager that there isn't too many lads doin a few days on another farm.
dunno not really coming up with any answers here! i don't have to scale or appetite to push on to pay some one else.
its hard to know whether technology form a labour unit or not, still making our mind up

Bass Reeves

It is questionable after you get to the stage where you are milking 80-100 cows if expansion will pay. Some lads have the skills to do it.Some do not. Lads that both rent land and hire labour to extend beyond 100 cows may well be be taking on extra work for nothing

kevthegaff

There's a lot of required labour in the forthcoming years, atm many young farmers have they're father helping them but let's see will the same generation do the same, also expansion will lead to this. Tim may culled a lot already but it was okay doing longhours when I was single but different now:-) facilities are pretty good bar maybe new milking mmachine and another tractor. Was considering only keeping 30 replacements and buying in heifers if experience(have 40 not year). I'm on a mountain and rented block so it's a different matter than on flat land. Not sure about 170/180 need more rented land but 150 is achievable on current block without too much pressure.

Deepsouthwest

Greengrass1 wrote: »

A man same age as my father here this morning. Milking double what we are and just generally chatting.
They have a lad 4/5 days a wk and he was of the opinion if your can do the 100 cows on your own you'll be as well of as any one.
100 ciws is not enough here but I reckon we can do it with bring in a relief milker in the spring and doing maybe 5/6 milkings a wk.
Possibly be talking about 260 head of stock between cows calves and heifers in 2 yrs time

That's the numbers I'm at now with just cows and replacements, no family help, any help here is paid labour and a student in the spring,still developing the farm and 3 young kids as well. Didn't mind it much before, but finding it harder now to find time for everything.

kevthegaff

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

That's the numbers I'm at now with just cows and replacements, no family help, any help here is paid labour and a student in the spring,still developing the farm and 3 young kids as well. Didn't mind it much before, but finding it harder now to find time for everything.

260?

Deepsouthwest

kevthegaff wrote: »

260?

Yeah, cows and heifers and calves, plan to milk 170+ nxt yr

kevthegaff

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Yeah, cows and heifers and calves, plan to milk 170+ nxt yr

Good going dsw, do u contract out slurry, fencing etc

Deepsouthwest

kevthegaff wrote: »

Good going dsw, do u contract out slurry, fencing etc

No, student and also have a good young lad with me on and off who put out most of the slurry, I'd put out less than 1/4 of it now. I do nearly all fert, and will continue to do that. Do my own fencing with whoever I have with me on the day

ComfortKid

Lads don't mind yer agencies. I will work any hours at no notice for 10e an hour in Limerick/Tipperary area

Deepsouthwest

ComfortKid wrote: »

Lads don't mind yer agencies. I will work any hours at no notice for 10e an hour in Limerick/Tipperary area

Youthful exuberance no doubt!

ComfortKid

Deepsouthwest wrote:

Youthful exuberance no doubt!

Not sure about youthful, but yes, very enthusiastic!

Cran

Grueller wrote: »

I am a little different to most in this regard as I am a suckler man and we do not generally employ labour, but I will need to employ some labour at some point in the future.

I farm in partnership with my father who is fit and able at the moment, but in another five years will probably find it hard going. He always worked full time up until the downturn when he lost his job so is at home full time now.

I have a high value off farm job. I would love to be able to pack it in at some stage to farm full time, but as a young man with a very young family to support, that would be an irresponsible thing to do for probably another twenty odd years. This will leave me in a position where I will need some labour in the yard for the winter months in another 5-10 years time. The way I see it is I have two options.

1. I have the option of reducing my hours in work which will have the effect of basically halving my off farm income.

2. Keep the hours up in work while paying somebody to come in for 3-4 hours per day to do the feeding, bedding etc.

Option two would leave me financially far better off and would be a handy little part time job for somebody for the winter as the yard is well set up and as regards bedding there is very little of it to be done. This option would leave me with maybe only an hours work in the evening rather than 4-5. There would also be a tax benefit to the cash paid out in labour.

Question is, how much per hour for somebody to take this on on a contract basis as I am not interested in getting into paye, prsi, USC, holiday pay and all the rest?

FRS is a real option here for you, if your on the high tax bracket at work (which i presume you are) its 50% relief. Say FRS is costing you an extra 5 an hour in real terms it is only costing 2.50 and removes the need for all of the paye, prsi, specific employee insurance etc that goes with having a direct employee/empoyer relationship. Also would be easy to get someone on the FRS books with the required skills you need, and change if need be.
I'm in similar situation here father is probably 5 yrs down that line you mention, but run all sheep and found it difficult to get anyone through FRS last time that could a) work with sheep or b) could trust to work an outdoor sheep system. Saying that I had an FRS worker here for 4 yrs who was excellent, but once he was gone struggled to find a replacement so now have a someone in 3 days a week who is directly employed.

Out of curiousity what do you see as a viable size farm to pack in work, and is expansion a possiblity for you?

stretch film

On a per hour worked basis the frs is no dearer than someone you employ directly at € 10/hour when you take in holiday pay. Its getting a good guy and keeping him is the issue as always.

J.O. Farmer

stretch film wrote: »

Theres probably many on here will contradict me but my accountant was very apprehensive about taking on someone on the contract basis . Revenue are cottoning to this . If you can get a guy to take payment on an irregular basis of irregular amounts and furnish you with some version of paperwork then it might be a runner.

Yep I think the IT crowd got a hammering. Lots of contractors with maybe only 1 client who they did all there work for. I think the revenue told them they were PAYE employees and not entitled to claim the expenses they were claiming.

Carrigogunnell

When lads pay relif milkers do they get receipts like wat do ye do if it's a young fella who then is probably paying any tax on that then surly revenue are goin to be clamping down on this. I read somewhere that from now on the silage is only taxable if u have a receipt example neighbours son using his fathers bales. Also farmers are going to have to produce receipts for everything even between farmers like calves or something like that

Grueller

Out of curiousity what do you see as a viable size farm to pack in work, and is expansion a possiblity for you?

We will calve 80ish sucklers here this year and I know that packing in the job is not viable at that with the two of us involved. If there was only the one of us taking an income from it the place might be viable with my wife working also. Expansion is not really an option in the sucklers. The only other option would be milk. I would have a grazing block that would top out at about 70 to 80 cows and take silage from an out farm. Is this big enough to go at dairy? I don't know. I certainly would not be any better off financially than with working and keeping the suckler herd. I might be better off in time terms.
Expansion would be difficult with me being surrounded by two men milking over 200 cows and a 400+ acre tillage operator.

BG2.0

Carrigogunnell wrote: »

When lads pay relif milkers do they get receipts like wat do ye do if it's a young fella who then is probably paying any tax on that then surly revenue are goin to be clamping down on this. I read somewhere that from now on the silage is only taxable if u have a receipt example neighbours son using his fathers bales. Also farmers are going to have to produce receipts for everything even between farmers like calves or something like that

You can get invoice books(give 3 copies, you/customer/your accounts) of few hundred sheets made up for a few cents page with farm/your name address ,item ,value etc etc printed up easily enough. Would send one here with anything leaving farm for keeping track.

frazzledhome

Where's the best place to advertise for farm labour?

Our milker of 12 yrs is finishing in a week or two and we want to take on a full time person.

Any experience

ComfortKid

frazzledhome wrote:

Our milker of 12 yrs is finishing in a week or two and we want to take on a full time person.

What part of the Country are you in.

C0N0R

ComfortKid wrote: »

What part of the Country are you in.

Laois country I think but I'm sure frazz will be along soon

Milked out

Agriland launching a recruitment site https://t.co/UB90SbbZRQ

frazzledhome

Milked out wrote: »

Agriland launching a recruitment site https://t.co/UB90SbbZRQ

€500 for 30 days??

frazzledhome

ComfortKid wrote: »

What part of the Country are you in.

Send a DM if interested. Located Sth Laois/Nth KK

kevthegaff

You didn't put in a massive lagoon last winter frazz, guy doing groundwork on my sheds had to tip off to help with it. I'd say advertise on local newspaper, hard to get guys willing to move.

3 the square

frazzledhome wrote: »

Where's the best place to advertise for farm labour?

Our milker of 12 yrs is finishing in a week or two and we want to take on a full time person.

Any experience

done deal is the best place to advertise for labour
very few people buy newspapers any more