GGG vs Canelo

boxer.fan

Jumping the gun a bit I suppose with this thread, nevertheless it seems this will be happening some distance down the road (not too long I hope).
Alvarez has demonstrated pretty fast & accurate counters, however, no evidence of much pop in them against non compliant opponents like Cotto last night, or indeed Mayweather some time ago.

I see GGG showing him little respect, going in for the kill from the opening bell. Has Canelo's chin been really tested at this level yet? I don't think so, he's practically always been a pro, whereas his opponent had a stellar amateur game.

With the small gloves on & the intensity of championship fight night I expect GGG to get the stoppage in some shape or form, unless of course they dehydrate him into submission.

phily2002

Unless they force GGG into a catch weight, I think he wins by stoppage mid rounds. Hopefully it happens

StringerBell

Like I said last night, I think GGG sparks him. I could see the fight getting made at 155 or maybe 157 but nothing higher which is a pain but that's boxing!

Can't see Canelo going to 160 to fight him and he has a bit of a draw so GGG may be forced to come down, but hopefully it will be at 157 and not 155, don't think it would get lower then that.

Henno30

There will be a catchweight but Golovkin will probably stop him anyway.

It will be interesting to see how Canelo approaches it. Against Trout, Lara, and Cotto he was very inactive but got away with it because he was the heavier puncher and landed the more memorable shots in most rounds. Against Angulo and Kirkland he showed that he can be active against an opponent who steps into him. And he's also well able to string combinations together against that sort of an opponent.

The sharpness of Golovkin's jab and countering suggests to me that Canelo won't be able to let his hands go freely, before you even consider the power factor. If he does try to face Golovkin down I think he'll crumble under the shots that come back at him.

His alternative is to fight conservatively, turning Golovkin and catching him with some eye-catching combinations and then resetting. The problem is he doesn't have the stamina to keep moving all night if Golovkin commits to coming forward. He typically looks tired after 5 rounds and against GGG he won't have the option of not working and hoping to win rounds with 2-3 big shots. Golovkin will pressure him constantly and although he moves slowly, his balance and ability to cut off the ring is top notch.

If Canelo's power can make Golovkin box then he has a chance. But if he couldn't seriously affect Cotto with big shots, bearing in mind that Cotto's been wobbled by almost everyone, then I don't see it being a big deterrent for Golovkin.

Ultimately Canelo probably won't have the power to keep Golovkin off him, the stamina to keep evading him, nor the defence to limit the damage when he is trapped. It will be a long night for him.

walshb

GGG is just too strong and heavy handed for Canelo.

DylanAFC

I really really hope that we see this fight in 2016. We'll see was Oscar just talking ****e in his open letter to Floyd or will he get the fight made.

Henno30

DylanAFC wrote: »

I really really hope that we see this fight in 2016. We'll see was Oscar just talking ****e in his open letter to Floyd or will he get the fight made.

Well I think Canelo has two weeks to make GGG an offer or he loses the belt.

Unless of course the WBC go back on their word now that they have a Mexican champion. But that could never happen.

Andre 3000

For Cinnamon's sake, I hope it's at a CW. Golovkin said he'd fight at 154 for Floyd and said he can make 154, so I think something like 156 would be a nice matchup. I think it'll be a closer fight than people think. I really like Canelo, I think he's underrated in a sense. Hard not to look past Golovkin though. You'd have to wonder if Father time about to creep up on him though. He's nearly 34 and has a lot of Boxing done. Canelo on the other hand is arguably only entering his peak period now.

StringerBell

The more under 157 it gets the better for Canelo, I think 155/154 would be tough for GGG, very different dropping down to fight a guy with Mayweathers style and power and dropping to fight a Canelo. Sounds odd I know.

Still if the farm was being bet it would be on GGG

walshb

StringerBell wrote: »

The more under 157 it gets the better for Canelo, I think 155/154 would be tough for GGG, very different dropping down to fight a guy with Mayweathers style and power and dropping to fight a Canelo. Sounds odd I know.

That's not odd at all. Canelo is a far more dangerous foe than Mayweather in terms of offensive capability. GGG weight drained against Canelo could be risky. Weight drained against Mayweather is not at all risky. It would just mean that he may be a step slower or less strong. Still well able to take whatever Mayweather brings, and likely still have enough to beat Mayweather convincingly.

StylePoetic

I really hate the catchweight stuff. Organisations need to step in and demand, rather than pander to, that the fighters fight at the weight of the belt they hold.

It just devalues the whole thing and is becoming more and more prevalent.

Re: the fight, it's one I'd like to see, but I don't think Canelo has what's needed to take out GGG. I don't think he has enough power to trouble him or give him a reason to think about not coming forward.

Ends before the 12th for me anyway. I can't really think of anyone who runs GGG really close. There was talk of Brook moving up to 154. I'm not suggesting he's in the same league there, but he has serious power at 147 and struggles with weight.

If he could bring that power up and more then maybe a peak Brook stands a chance through brute force. Still think he'd be too one dimensional for GGG though.

menoscemo

Can someone explain to me why a catchweight is such an advantage for Canelo. Doesn't Canelo regularly come into the rain at higher weights than GGG does despite weighing in lighter?
Is it just that Canelo is used to draining himself?

I'd imagine that going by natural size at this point they are pretty much the same.

StringerBell

walshb wrote: »

That's not odd at all. Canelo is a far more dangerous foe than Mayweather in terms of offensive capability. GGG weight drained against Canelo could be risky. Weight drained against Mayweather is not at all risky. It would just mean that he may be a step slower or less strong. Still well able to take whatever Mayweather brings, and likely still have enough to beat Mayweather convincingly.

I know its not odd, did you read my post properly? I am just aware that to people who may not have much of an interest or knowledge of the sport it may sound odd

What you said is exactly what I meant when I said fighting Mayweather at that weight and fighting Canelo at that weight is very different!

walshb

StringerBell wrote: »

I know its not odd, did you read my post properly? I am just aware that to people who may not have much of an interest or knowledge of the sport it may sound odd

What you said is exactly what I meant when I said fighting Mayweather at that weight and fighting Canelo at that weight is very different!

I knew exactly what you meant. We're on the same page.

walshb

menoscemo wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why a catchweight is such an advantage for Canelo. Doesn't Canelo regularly come into the rain at higher weights than GGG does despite weighing in lighter?
Is it just that Canelo is used to draining himself?

I'd imagine that going by natural size at this point they are pretty much the same.

Are people saying it's an advantage? I'd say it's more a case of making it just a little more difficult by asking a natural MW to drop 2-3-4 lbs to fight.

menoscemo

walshb wrote: »

Are people saying it's an advantage? I'd say it's more a case of making it just a little more difficult by asking a natural MW to drop 2-3-4 lbs to fight.

But surely it's just as difficult for canelo to come in at 155 or 157? In fact given the fact he is growing with every fight, it's probably gonna be even more difficult for him!!

TBH I wish they would cut out all the games and just make it at 160 as MW should be!!!

Henno30

menoscemo wrote: »

But surely it's just as difficult for canelo to come in at 155 or 157? In fact given the fact he is growing with every fight, it's probably gonna be even more difficult for him!!

Not necessary. Cutting weight isn't the same for everybody. Canelo has done it many times and knows how his body responds and how to limit the negative effects. I'm sure Golovkin can make 155, but it's uncharted territory for him.

walshb

menoscemo wrote: »

But surely it's just as difficult for canelo to come in at 155 or 157? In fact given the fact he is growing with every fight, it's probably gonna be even more difficult for him!!

TBH I wish they would cut out all the games and just make it at 160 as MW should be!!!

It being difficult or just as difficult for Canelo is not the point. The making your opponent squeeze an extra few lbs that he has never had to squeeze before is the point.

If Canelo's team seek a catchweight they are seeking it to make GGGs task more difficult, and yes, that could be construed as giving them an advantage.

Their two options are 160 or a catchweight. The 160 could actually be better for Canelo in the sense that he himself may be a slightly better specimen due to not having to work so hard to make 154 or 155. But maybe Canelo's team think that making GGG get to 155 is still the better option of the two.

boxer.fan

The problem for Canelo getting in with GGG is that he has shown in his last few fights that he can be hit relatively easy. Cotto peppered him for twelve rounds albeit with harmless enough stuff. Mayweather did an even better job at it. Kirkland managed to squeeze a few in too.

Stick GGG in there & immediately Canelo will be on the back foot (where I don't think he copes well). He is gonna get cracked. I can only see one outcome.

Henno30

Canelo does fight well off the backfoot. He's a natural counter-puncher which is why he doesn't look good coming forward and applying pressure. Also Cotto and Floyd are a lot quicker than GGG in both hands and feet.

Canelo's biggest problem is his lack of stamina and likely lack of stopping power when it comes to GGG. I don't think Canelo is anything more than a respectable puncher - at 154.

Against an iron-chinned true middleweight like Golovkin he will have nothing to scare him with. Which means he will have to outland his opponent rather than relying on 3-4 heavy shots to win the round.

I don't think he was the natural workrate or the stamina to do that against Golovkin. With GGG sticking that jab in his face he'll be forced to move his feet and he'll get tired. His defence is good, but not great. And with his counters not disrupting GGG's flow he'll get lit up in exchanges. Unless his punch resistance is excellent he'll wear down and won't make 12 in my opinion.

walshb

Just to add that I don't think GGG and Canelo are all that equal in size. Similar, but GGG is a bigger man. He was fighting at a heavier weight when an amateur and when a fair few years younger. 160 can't be easy for him. 155/156 will present even more difficulties. Canelo comes into the ring a little tubby. GGG comes in ripped and solid.

Henno30

Doug Fischer's article on the Canelo-GGG sparring session back in 2011 - http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/167465-gym-notes-alvarez-golovkin-worth-driving-up-a-mountain-to-see

Round one:

Alvarez began the session sticking and moving effectively. The young redhead was on his toes when he maneuvered around the casually advancing Golovkin, but he planted his feet every time he let his hands go, including his stiff jab. However, Golovkin picked off most of Alvarez’s shots with his gloves as he quickly cut the ring off, occasionally switching stances as he stepped forward. The 2004 Olympian slipped a beautiful left uppercut through Alvarez’s guard to score the first significant punch midway through the round. Alvarez loaded up with a retaliatory hook that missed and spun him halfway around. Golovkin didn’t jab much, but he landed it whenever he let it go. Alvarez began to look for ways to counter his antagonist in the final minute and scored with a sweet right cross followed by a hook that shook Golovkin down to his shoes. The Kazakh just smiled at him, though. Unfazed, Alvarez stood his ground in the final 30 seconds and took a few hard body shots.

Round two:

Golovkin stalked a little faster while displaying decent head movement and a nice straight, crisp jab. Alvarez definitely felt the pressure as he gave ground without allowing his back to touch the ropes. He used fluid upper-body movement to evade Golovkin’s short power shots, which prompted co-trainer Jose Reynoso to yell “Bien, bien, muy bien!” from the corner. Alvarez landed a picture-perfect head-to-body hook combination mid-round. Golovkin fired back but the kid leaned away from the punches. Alvarez tried to counter Golovkin but couldn’t get through the older fighter’s guard. Still, the young man’s accuracy backed Golovkin off for the first time during the session. Alvarez followed Golovkin during the final minute but walked into a hard left hook that appeared to rock him with 10 seconds remaining. Alvarez didn’t return to his corner after the bell but instead tried to shake out his right leg, which immediately stiffened on impact of Golovkin‘s hook.

Rounds three and four:

Alvarez abandoned his jab and his upper-body movement and took the fight to Golovkin with both hands. Golovkin welcomed the aggression, easily blocking Alvarez’s punches while landing most of his. Alvarez sucked it up and even walked forward while attempting to block as much heat as he could, but it was clear that he could not match Golovkin’s strength or power. Still, the budding young star got in an occasional power punch whenever he let his hands go in bunches. His hook-right combination found the mark but his technique was not as tight as it was at the start of the session and his face was turning beet red from Golovkin‘s punches. The kid showed guts but he didn’t merit a single “bien” from Reynoso in the third round. He didn’t hear it until two and half minutes into the fourth round, when he let loose with a blazing five-punch combination. Golovkin dodged or parried most of the shots but Alvarez earned his respect for the round.

Round five:

A tired-looking Alvarez resumed his jab and lateral movement to buy himself a breather. His jab was especially effective when he shot-gunned it. Golovkin neglected his jab and looked to counter Alvarez’s left stick with single power punches (the hook in particular). Alvarez did more moving along the ring perimeter (his back now grazing the ropes) than punching, but he got off hard shots when he did let his hands go.

Round six:

Alvarez caught his second wind in the final round, bouncing on his toes with quick one-two combinations. “Muy bien!” Reynoso yelled after Alvarez landed a right uppercut-right cross combination off the ropes. Golovkin grinned again and attacked Alvarez’s body as the kid tried to spin away. They both loaded up with single power punches during the final minute of the round.

boxer.fan

Henno30 wrote: »

Canelo does fight well off the backfoot. He's a natural counter-puncher which is why he doesn't look good coming forward and applying pressure. Also Cotto and Floyd are a lot quicker than GGG in both hands and feet.

Canelo's biggest problem is his lack of stamina and likely lack of stopping power when it comes to GGG. I don't think Canelo is anything more than a respectable puncher - at 154.

Against an iron-chinned true middleweight like Golovkin he will have nothing to scare him with. Which means he will have to outland his opponent rather than relying on 3-4 heavy shots to win the round.

I don't think he was the natural workrate or the stamina to do that against Golovkin. With GGG sticking that jab in his face he'll be forced to move his feet and he'll get tired. His defence is good, but not great. And with his counters not disrupting GGG's flow he'll get lit up in exchanges. Unless his punch resistance is excellent he'll wear down and won't make 12 in my opinion.

He does counter punch very well, but I don't see him being able to plant his feet with Golovkin coming at him.

walshb

In a nutshell he has no chance, unless he suddenly shows us something that we did not know he had. That for me would be very respectable MW power.

TheNap

Cant see the fight happening . GGG is too big . He will fight Cotto again.

GGGs only hope of i big fight is moving up . Although Andre Ward has moved up a division meaning there isnt many there either.

Its funny how a lot of fighters from a higher weight class constantly called out FMJ ( i know $$$ ) yet are reluctant themselves to fight a bigger man.

boxer.fan

TheNap wrote: »

Cant see the fight happening . GGG is too big . He will fight Cotto again.

GGGs only hope of i big fight is moving up . Although Andre Ward has moved up a division meaning there isnt many there either.

Its funny how a lot of fighters from a higher weight class constantly called out FMJ ( i know $$$ ) yet are reluctant themselves to fight a bigger man.

i don't think Golovkin has any objection to moving up to super middle. It would make sense for him after he clears out middleweight. After he moves up there will be no more catchweight. He will be there to stay.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

i don't think Golovkin has any objection to moving up to super middle. It would make sense for him after he clears out middleweight. After he moves up there will be no more catchweight. He will be there to stay.

Is he really sticking around aged 33 or so to "clear" out MW? I don't buy that. A move to SMW would be a big step up for him at this stage.

Henno30

TheNap wrote: »

Its funny how a lot of fighters from a higher weight class constantly called out FMJ ( i know $$$ ) yet are reluctant themselves to fight a bigger man.

Not once in his career did Floyd take a risk comparable to GGG fighting Ward in his first fight at 168lbs.

The biggest risk Floyd took was Castillo at 135, and in most people's eyes he lost.

TheNap

Henno30 wrote: »

Not once in his career did Floyd take a risk comparable to GGG fighting Ward in his first fight at 168lbs.

The biggest risk Floyd took was Castillo at 135, and in most people's eyes he lost.

Whats this got to do with Mayweather taking risks ? It's not the point i was making.

Underground

I remember Canelo saying something after the cotto fight like "if he wants to fight me, it'll be at my weight". Insisting on the catch weight already ffs. Either you're a MW or you're not.

TheNap

Underground wrote: »

I remember Canelo saying something after the cotto fight like "if he wants to fight me, it'll be at my weight". Insisting on the catch weight already ffs. Either you're a MW or you're not.

It's a joke

Charlie George

Canelo will vacate and thats a given.GGG will fight for the belt and fight our own Andy Lee to claim a clean sweep and then move up,if Canelo fights for belt at catchweight the whole of boxing is ruined.