Remarkable increase in heat pump efficency

Impetus

Norway is a large oil/gas producer. About 99% of Norwegian heating is electric – ie hydro electric.

Much of this heat is generated by heat pumps. Heat pumps can heat air, or heat water. Hot water can be used for under floor heating, as well as showers etc.

I recently purchased a Daikin FTXZ-N air heat pump for a house in Ireland. It uses R-32 refrigerant which is A+++ rated for heating and air con. It is self-cleaning, and almost totally silent. The electrician who wired it up remarked how loud the electric kettle boiling water was compared with the heat pump. Ireland has an ideal climate for heat pumps given its mildness. I typically get a 6:1 heat ratio from this device. Eg 600 W/hr consumed = 3.6 kW/of heat. Flat out this unit can deliver 7 kW/hr of heat, in the smallest version
.
I have two older (2y) but similar units, in the same building – this new product consumes 40% less energy than the older Dakin units. The remote control shows how much electricity one is consuming. I have a fan heater in the shower room, which consumes more power while I have a shower, than the three Daikin heat pumps consume to heat a 6 bedroom house for the full day.

The Daikin FTXZ-N has been available in the rest of Europe for nearly two years. The idiots at Daikin Ireland have just released the product on the Irish market.

Ireland should be the heat pump capital of the world with its mild climate. Most air heat pumps are installed in Switzerland and Sweden with their -20C outside temps.

In addition to heat and summer air con, these units kill fungus and woodworm, and are using an optional extra controllable app are controlable over the internet or via WWW.

I typically arrive in Ireland on a late night flight…. Switch on the Daikin in the bedroom full blast, and the bedroom is 28C 40% humidity while I am brushing my teeth. There is no other heating system that would compete with the power and speed of a Daikin.

Conclusion: Everyone who works for Daikin Ireland (marketing and distribution) should be fired. The Irish company has done an appalling job in terms of marketing the technology. Buying their stuff in Ireland is like being a dentist extracting a tooth.

Markcheese

Are they single room units ? ( ie. 1 evaporator and 1 condenser per unit, )
What sort of price are they ?

Impetus

Markcheese wrote: »

Are they single room units ? ( ie. 1 evaporator and 1 condenser per unit, )
What sort of price are they ?

The products I bought were one to one - ie there are now three outdoor units and three indoor units. The new A+++ technology is only available on a one to one basis so far. I have insulated each room, and just heat the room(s) I am using. The high speed heat up allows one to move to another room, and have it as hot as one likes within a minute or two. It also has infra red cameras that detect body movement. If there is nobody in a room for 20 min (or your setting), it alters the air temp by 2C to reduce consumption. If it detects no movement for a longer period it powers down (duration adjustable). Unlike other manufacturers' units, these can be set to pump in fresh air, removing humidity and cleaning the air. It has a sleep mode as well - which regulates the air to make one wake up refreshed in the AM. One can wake up in Ireland feeling as if one slept on the European continent, rather than damp Ireland.

greenpick

I've heard about heat exchangers, do these do the same sort of thing?

Impetus

greenpick wrote: »

I've heard about heat exchangers, do these do the same sort of thing?

In winter, when the unit is heating the house, if one goes outside, and puts one's hand up to the grille, one can feel cold air being pumped out of the house. The reverse happens on a warm summer's day. The outside unit is pumping out warm air. I don't know if there is a precise difference between pump and exchanger, but in general terms it describes the same functionality.

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump for a detailed explanation and diagrams.

long range shooter

Impetus wrote: »

Norway is a large oil/gas producer. About 99% of Norwegian heating is electric – ie hydro electric.

Much of this heat is generated by heat pumps. Heat pumps can heat air, or heat water. Hot water can be used for under floor heating, as well as showers etc.

I recently purchased a Daikin FTXZ-N air heat pump for a house in Ireland. It uses R-32 refrigerant which is A+++ rated for heating and air con. It is self-cleaning, and almost totally silent. The electrician who wired it up remarked how loud the electric kettle boiling water was compared with the heat pump. Ireland has an ideal climate for heat pumps given its mildness. I typically get a 6:1 heat ratio from this device. Eg 600 W/hr consumed = 3.6 kW/of heat. Flat out this unit can deliver 7 kW/hr of heat, in the smallest version
.
I have two older (2y) but similar units, in the same building – this new product consumes 40% less energy than the older Dakin units. The remote control shows how much electricity one is consuming. I have a fan heater in the shower room, which consumes more power while I have a shower, than the three Daikin heat pumps consume to heat a 6 bedroom house for the full day.

The Daikin FTXZ-N has been available in the rest of Europe for nearly two years. The idiots at Daikin Ireland have just released the product on the Irish market.

Ireland should be the heat pump capital of the world with its mild climate. Most air heat pumps are installed in Switzerland and Sweden with their -20C outside temps.

In addition to heat and summer air con, these units kill fungus and woodworm, and are using an optional extra controllable app are controlable over the internet or via WWW.

I typically arrive in Ireland on a late night flight…. Switch on the Daikin in the bedroom full blast, and the bedroom is 28C 40% humidity while I am brushing my teeth. There is no other heating system that would compete with the power and speed of a Daikin.

Conclusion: Everyone who works for Daikin Ireland (marketing and distribution) should be fired. The Irish company has done an appalling job in terms of marketing the technology. Buying their stuff in Ireland is like being a dentist extracting a tooth.

Works best in extra insulated houses though.
And water to air,or ground-air gives a better efficiency in the long run,but are offcourse more expensive.

Impetus

long range shooter wrote: »

Works best in extra insulated houses though.
And water to air,or ground-air gives a better efficiency in the long run,but are offcourse more expensive.

I doubt if ground air or water to air is more efficient than the 6:1 efficiency ratio of the latest air to air technology. Maybe on one or two days of the year, when there is more heat stored under-ground - but in the typical Irish climate, there are very few extremely cold days. You also need the ground space in which to bury a ground to water system. Trees, slopes, rocks, etc can get in the way of pipework. An air to air system can typically be installed in less than a day.

The air based system (eg the Daikin I referred to), also provide air management and purification. Ground based water pipe systems are normally used for under-floor heating (which can cause pollution within the house as floor surfaces are heated), or radiators. If the system leaks, it can involve a lot of digging up to find where the leak is. When it comes to dehumidifying a house, air based systems win hands down. And they are also much faster than any other form of heat to get a room or house warm when switched on.

Air based systems can also be used for water heating - though not the model I referred to. The hot water can be used in the taps for washing and also for water based heating systems - which would be akin to a ground based water system on the inside of the house.

long range shooter

Impetus wrote: »

I doubt if ground air or water to air is more efficient than the 6:1 efficiency ratio of the latest air to air technology. Maybe on one or two days of the year, when there is more heat stored under-ground - but in the typical Irish climate, there are very few extremely cold days. You also need the ground space in which to bury a ground to water system. Trees, slopes, rocks, etc can get in the way of pipework. An air to air system can typically be installed in less than a day.

The air based system (eg the Daikin I referred to), also provide air management and purification. Ground based water pipe systems are normally used for under-floor heating (which can cause pollution within the house as floor surfaces are heated), or radiators. If the system leaks, it can involve a lot of digging up to find where the leak is. When it comes to dehumidifying a house, air based systems win hands down. And they are also much faster than any other form of heat to get a room or house warm when switched on.

Air based systems can also be used for water heating - though not the model I referred to. The hot water can be used in the taps for washing and also for water based heating systems - which would be akin to a ground based water system on the inside of the house.

sorry i meant say water/water or ground/water systems are more efficient.
But todays technology have gone far in air/air as well,depending on climate.
some air/air punps of the old type had problems with humidity though,thats why i went for the water/water system instead.Especially with the Irish weather.
If you combine water/water like i have in my house with underground heating you have cheap energy all year around.

ElKavo

Really great info there, thanks. Can you tell me the cost of the units / installation? Do you use any traditional heating methods to complement? I.E. fire / oil / gas?