Question about warranty

mad m

Hey lads,

I got a Yaris from a dealer a while back, I got 3 months warranty on engine and gear box. One of the coils went on me last night. Would you think this should be covered under the engine warranty? Just wondering as it runs out in 8 days....:rolleyes:

Thanks.

Atlantic Dawn

I would say yes it should be covered.

mad m

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I would say yes it should be covered.

Thanks for that. Rang dealer, said it was electrical so not covered under warranty.:(

Del2005

mad m wrote: »

Thanks for that. Rang dealer, said it was electrical so not covered under warranty.:(

It's covered by the sale of goods act, a coil should last longer than 3 months. Have a look at citizens information.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

Drummerboy08

Del2005 wrote: »

It's covered by the sale of goods act, a coil should last longer than 3 months. Have a look at citizens information.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

What about a used coil, of unknown age and usage?

mad m

I did ask would he not fix it as a gesture of good will. I've to ring him Monday and he will see what he can do. I'll see how it goes before I start sprouting sales of goods act.

colm_mcm

I wouldn't have thought it would have been covered on an engine+gearbox warranty.
I don't think Sale of goods act would cover you either, 3 months down the road.

Luckily, Yaris coils aren't overly expensive.
Micksgarage has coils for the older 4 cylinder Yaris (99 onwards) from €43, and 3 cylinder (late 05 onwards) from €38.

Try not to drive the car as you could cause other issues.

Del2005

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

What about a used coil, of unknown age and usage?

They bought a car off the dealer, not a coil. If the dealer had properly prepared the car for sale the chances of a coil failing in 3 months are slim.

Even if they had bought just the coil off the dealer, and somehow got the car for thrown in free, the sale of goods act would still cover the coil failing in 3 months

colm_mcm

How could a dealer predict an ignition coil going in 3 months time?
No dealer, no matter how amazing they are - is going to replace something like 4 coils on the basis that they might stop working.
Where would they reasonably stop replacing things?
This is a used item, it isn't a brand new product.

thomas anderson.

Better to do all 4 at once

mad m

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Better to do all 4 at once

It's the 3 cylinder so thank god it's only 3 coils.

George Dalton

Del2005 wrote: »

They bought a car off the dealer, not a coil. If the dealer had properly prepared the car for sale the chances of a coil failing in 3 months are slim.

What steps should the dealer have taken in order to prevent this failure?

J Madone

George Dalton wrote: »

What steps should the dealer have taken in order to prevent this failure?

Rang Irish psychics live perhaps

Nonoperational

I would always have though it would be covered. But for the price I'd nearly just buy it and throw it in.

Mintoe

3months engine and gearbox only warranty is not what a consumer is legally covered by when purchasing a used vehicle. It's actually a 3 month or 3,000 miles which ever comes 1st warranty on the car as a whole excluding wear and tear items such as tyres, bulbs brake pads, clutch if obvious that clutch was not used normally ( if driver rides the clutch etc). SO YES A COIL PACK OR INDIVIDUAL PENCIL COILS ARE COVERED AS THEY ARE NOT A WEAR AND TEAR ITEM UNDER NORMAL USE BY A NEW OWNER THEREFORE DEALER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CHANGING THEM. they are fairly cheap and also easy to fit so there should be no reason why dealer shouldn't cover it.

George Dalton

A lot of people quote this legal minimum 3 month warranty thing on here but I've never actually seen a source to back it up?

Thankfully from the OP's perspective the fault is minor and the cost of fixing it is low enough that recourse to the old sale of goods act chestnut is not even worth considering.

I actually think it is pretty short-sighted of the dealer not to cover this item. What I find from experience is that if we sell a car and it develops a fault within warranty, when we sort the issue out quickly and with no fuss it very often works in our favour and we end up gaining a regular customer. This dealer could have gotten himself a long term customer for the price of a coilpack but chose not to.

colm_mcm

Mintoe wrote: »

3months engine and gearbox only warranty is not what a consumer is legally covered by when purchasing a used vehicle. It's actually a 3 month or 3,000 miles which ever comes 1st warranty on the car as a whole excluding wear and tear items such as tyres, bulbs brake pads, clutch if obvious that clutch was not used normally ( if driver rides the clutch etc). SO YES A COIL PACK OR INDIVIDUAL PENCIL COILS ARE COVERED AS THEY ARE NOT A WEAR AND TEAR ITEM UNDER NORMAL USE BY A NEW OWNER THEREFORE DEALER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR CHANGING THEM. they are fairly cheap and also easy to fit so there should be no reason why dealer shouldn't cover it.

Where did you get this from?

Mintoe

I worked in one of the largest used car dealers in Ireland for nearly 6 years and have been involved in the motor trade for 11 years, i'm 100% certain that a minimum warranty is not just limited to engine and gearbox.

All second-hand cars sold in Ireland (every sale of a motor vehicle by a person or company whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) ARE covered by a BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty as part of the sale of goods act when purchased by a consumer.

Sale of Goods Act:
The Sale of Goods Act also requires
that all goods sold should be:
✽ Of merchantable quality (reasonable, acceptable quality
given what was said about them and taking into account the age and history of the vehicle).
✽ Fit for the purpose they are intended to be used for.
✽ As described.


The Act does not state how long the warranty is, but the accepted norm throughout the motor trade is 3 months.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/section/13/enacted/en/html


EG, if the boot door lock fails, it is NOT merchantable quality, so must be fixed by the dealer.
the same applies to window regulators, coil packs, and ALL components other than normal wear and tear items such as tyres, light bulbs etc.

if a dealer wont' replace a coil pack or pencil coil which are very inexpensive it seriously highlights what a shabby unscrupulous dealer that they are. I would dig my heals in and go to small claims court if necessary as i'm sure 100% of the time the consumer would be successful for non wear and tear items regardless of what "version" of a "warranty" was offered.

Del2005

Mintoe wrote: »

I worked in one of the largest used car dealers in Ireland for nearly 6 years and have been involved in the motor trade for 11 years, i'm 100% certain that a minimum warranty is not just limited to engine and gearbox.

All second-hand cars sold in Ireland (every sale of a motor vehicle by a person or company whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) ARE covered by a BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty as part of the sale of goods act when purchased by a consumer.

Sale of Goods Act:
The Sale of Goods Act also requires
that all goods sold should be:
✽ Of merchantable quality (reasonable, acceptable quality
given what was said about them and taking into account the age and history of the vehicle).
✽ Fit for the purpose they are intended to be used for.
✽ As described.


The Act does not state how long the warranty is, but the accepted norm throughout the motor trade is 3 months.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/section/13/enacted/en/html


EG, if the boot door lock fails, it is NOT merchantable quality, so must be fixed by the dealer.
the same applies to window regulators, coil packs, and ALL components other than normal wear and tear items such as tyres, light bulbs etc.

if a dealer wont' replace a coil pack or pencil coil which are very inexpensive it seriously highlights what a shabby unscrupulous dealer that they are. I would dig my heals in and go to small claims court if necessary as i'm sure 100% of the time the consumer would be successful for non wear and tear items regardless of what "version" of a "warranty" was offered.

The time limit under the sale of goods act is the statute of limitations, which in Ireland is 6 years, obviously the longer before the failure the less that the seller is liable for.

Del2005

George Dalton wrote: »

What steps should the dealer have taken in order to prevent this failure?

I don't tell business people how to do their job.

slimjimmc

Mintoe, there is no statutory "3 month or 3,000 miles which ever comes 1st warranty" on any vehicle. It just doesn't exist in law. Dealers may choose to offer one but the law doesn't compel them.

Warranties are not consumer rights. Consumer rights are set in law and cannot be overruled. Warranties should be considered a perk, they are optionally provided and in addition to consumer rights. Unlike consumer rights a warranty can have whatever terms and conditions and exclusions the provider wishes. However once a warranty is provided the provider must honour it in accordance with its T&Cs.

Section 13 which you linked to only deals with dangerous defects, i.e. the type of defects which could kill or injure someone.

The full provisions of consumer law do indeed apply to used cars and dealers are generally liable for remedying defects. There is no time limit* specified in terms or years or months but consumer law does take into account what is reasonable to expect from product. This could be well in excess of any trade imposed norm of 3 months. In fact for the first 6 months following sale any defect is assumed to be there from the time of sale and subject to remedy and if disputed it's up to the seller to show otherwise. On the other hand you have no rights for minor defects.

Drummerboy08

Del2005 wrote: »

I don't tell business people how to do their job.

I don't think that's what he was asking. And it's a pretty poor cop out from you.

colm_mcm

Del2005 wrote: »

.... If the dealer had properly prepared the car for sale the chances of a coil failing in 3 months are slim.

George Dalton wrote: »

What steps should the dealer have taken in order to prevent this failure?

Del2005 wrote: »

I don't tell business people how to do their job.

But you seem to know something they don't about prepping cars for sale. It might help them to know.

George Dalton

Del2005 wrote: »

I don't tell business people how to do their job.

Pretty poor response tbh.

The fact is there is no way the dealer (or anyone else for that matter) could have predicted a coilpack failure 11 weeks into their 12 week warranty period and there are no practical measures they could have taken to prevent it.

Now that doesn't change the fact that I still think they should cover the failure, but that is just my opinion.

George Dalton

Mintoe wrote: »

if a dealer wont' replace a coil pack or pencil coil which are very inexpensive it seriously highlights what a shabby unscrupulous dealer that they are. I would dig my heals in and go to small claims court if necessary

I very much doubt that. Surely at some point common sense would come into it?

It's all very well being in the right in principle but would you seriously go to court over a €40 coilpack? You'd burn that in petrol with all the messing around you'd have to do.

slimjimmc

George Dalton wrote: »

I very much doubt that. Surely at some point common sense would come into it?

It's all very well being in the right in principle but would you seriously go to court over a €40 coilpack? You'd burn that in petrol with all the messing around you'd have to do.

I agree it's often not worth your while pushing for a low value claim but the Small Claims Court only costs €25 and only requires travel if the claim is disputed and consequently the registrar calls a meeting or it goes to a hearing. It's not a quick process though as the defendant is allowed a about month to respond to the claim and to each subsequent correspondence. Don't forget it can cost the business to attend too so low value cases are likely to be settled without the need of a hearing. The claim may also include reasonable consequential loss directly arising from the defect eg. if hire car is needed while faulty car is stranded.

Toyotafanboi

8 days out of warranty. As a customer service/ retention exercise if nothing else, they should replace it imo.

colm_mcm

I think it's inside warranty, just not covered?

George Dalton

slimjimmc wrote: »

Small Claims Court only costs €25 and only requires travel if the claim is disputed and consequently the registrar calls a meeting or it goes to a hearing. It can cost the business to attend too so cases are often settled without the need of a hearing. The claim may also include reasonable consequential loss directly arising from the defect eg. if hire car is needed while faulty car is stranded.

I understand all that and I'm not disputing that the OP is probably in the right on this one. I just think that in this particular case the hassle of persisting with the claim outweighs the benefits. Maybe my travel comparison was a bad one to use. How about the time involved in the whole procedure? Life is too short for that sort of messing. Maybe I'm in the minority in thinking that.

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think it's inside warranty, just not covered?

Yeah, you're right, I misread it.

Kinda bad form not to cover it then really, given the relative cost.

mad m

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

8 days out of warranty. As a customer service/ retention exercise if nothing else, they should replace it imo.

Warranty up on 28th of November....Ill ring dealer in morning and see what he says. Maybe if he buys part I can put it in myself or tell him ill get someone to do it,at least I'm meeting him halfway...

Toyotafanboi

George Dalton wrote: »

I actually think it is pretty short-sighted of the dealer not to cover this item. What I find from experience is that if we sell a car and it develops a fault within warranty, when we sort the issue out quickly and with no fuss it very often works in our favour and we end up gaining a regular customer. This dealer could have gotten himself a long term customer for the price of a coilpack but chose not to.

This is the answer to the thread really.

Anyone with an ounce of business sense would replace it. Its a cheap part that can be fitted in minutes and "your business is only as good as your last unhappy customer".

If they deal with this well they stand to gain repeat business and good recommendations to family and friends.

If they refuse to supply a €40 part and offer 10 minutes labour to fit it, indeed they've saved a nifty fifty but they've potentially lost thousands in repeat business.

Fortunately if the dealer is acting the bollocks, the part is cheap and very easy to fit DIY, so all is not lost.

Voodoomelon

Pretty shoddy, should be covered for the sake of customer satisfaction. Where does the engine start or end and ancillaries and electrics begin? Logic would suggest that if the issue is in the engine bay, engine warranty should cover it, but everyone sees "engine and gearbox" as meaning different things. There are no real hard and fast rules.

mad m

Well to put this to bed, dealer rang me this morning. He asked me to drop car over for repair. Picking it up shortly...