Mk1 avensis with big miles as a runabout?

gooner99

Have been offered a 99 mk1 1.6 petrol avensis from a family member. The car is in great shape for its age. It was well looked after for the last 10 years, with an nct to next summer. Only issue is that takes a bit of oil every couple of months and the milleage is 230k miles. I believe these are very reliable cars in general and that this engine is the last of the toyota greats,some would argue better than many newer cars on the road. It would be used to drive to work, 16 mile round trip on b roads. My only worry would be the milleage, but maybe not that big an issue (hell my 1.4 golf is about to hit 180k miles). What are your thoughts , worth a punt or....

johndaman66

Why not. To be honest I'd be more worried about a 1.4 Golf with 180k on it rather than a MK1 Avensis with 240k on it, all other things being equal. Have a 01 VVTI Avensis myself and although its far from perfect I find it a great workhorse of a car. Surprisingly economical too. Having owned a few toyotas in my time and a few in the family down through the years my bigget bugbear with them is they all seem to leak water into the boot area for some reason. My own burns a drop of oil also as is expected from the early VVTI engines but nothing alarming. If it is using oil you will need to be prepared to keep an eye on it and top it up every so often or else suffer the consequences.


Im sure were not talking a hell of a lot of money anyway so the way I'd look at it is put no more than 3 months tax on it at a time, if something costly gives up on it get something else and put it up on donedeal. if nobody bites then scrap it. Either way your hardly going to loose a lot to it and am sure you'll get your value out of it

ba_barabus

I'd take that over a lot of other cars with lower miles.

Mycroft H

A 99 would still have the old Liam Byrne engines from the Carina II surely? There very reliable.

mayota

Go for it. I'd change the gearbox oil too.

Mashie

I Drive a 00 with one with just over 200k miles. Fairly smooth still. Very comfortable. Could drive for hours in it without stopping. 35mpg ish on longish commute. Recently replaced power steering pump but no biggy.Water does get into the boot. Seems to seep in through some of the joints in the body. Mine is a saloon . Replaced gearbox at 130k miles.

Edwardius

Seen reports of 500k miles on that engine if looked after, 230 is nothing. Mine has 210k miles and runs pretty sweet, it does leak into the boot and takes about a litre of oil per 6k miles. Also, I find it doesn't do so well with cross winds and it's a bit light on the road (it'll oversteer on long corners in the wet if you're dumb like me).

Maintenance is handy enough, service parts are pretty cheap (oil filters are about three quid, air filter around 10 spark plugs are pricey but only need doing every 60k miles, mintex pads about 30), tyres can work out about 75 a corner (195/60/15 hankook/bridgestone). I get about 42mpg at 90-100kph, probably 36 around 120 (gearing is pretty short), 38-40 in m50 hell. I got 47 once but it wasn't worth it. Comfort is pretty good.

It will never ever break down.

An added benefit is that nobody will ever break into your gaff to steal it because it's a 'boring Toyota'.

ba_barabus

Edwardius wrote: »

An added benefit is that nobody will ever break into your gaff to steal it because it's a 'boring Toyota'.

My house was broken into on the 1 Feb 2009 and my 99 Avensis was taken. It was used as a getaway car in an armed robbery and to the amusement if me and the Gardai in Rathfarnhan Garda station it managed to get away from the cops who stuffed their car. It came back to me unharmed bar a massive dent I put in the boot with a hurley as it was being driven away.

selectamatic

Can't go wrong with a 4afe they're ultra reliable. And if it's actually a genuine 230k miles I'd go so far as to say it's low milage for a 4afe avensis. A drop of oil every couple of months is nothing out of the ordinary it's a feature of jap cars from the 90's :P

ba_barabus

selectamatic wrote: »

Can't go wrong with a 4afe they're ultra reliable. And if it's actually a genuine 230k miles I'd go so far as to say it's low milage for a 4afe avensis. A drop of oil every couple of months is nothing out of the ordinary it's a feature of jap cars from the 90's :P

From experience I'd question the grade of oil it's getting. Mine used to burn oil as it was getting the wrong grade.

selectamatic

ba_barabus wrote: »

From experience I'd question the grade of oil it's getting. Mine used to burn oil as it was getting the wrong grade.

People not servicing them often enough aswell. It's common among toyota's and Hondas of that age that people see them as indestructible therefore servicing them isn't a priority. If these small jap n/a engines had their oil and filters changed at every stated interval then I doubt they'd be burning much oil at all but since they got a rep for being so ultra reliable this servicing tended not to take place.

CJhaughey

Mines a diesel estate with 323k miles on it now. It did leak into the boot but I solved the issue by undoing the roof rails and sealing around the attachment stud with Tec , since then its been dry.
Mine returns an average of 45mpg over its time with me, the 1.6 is a great engine though compared with many inferior petrol units of the time.
I had a Carina E with one and it was both punchy and economical.
If yours leaks try using sealant around the boot area where the wing panels meet the rear window, typically there will be tiny cracks where the sealant under the paint has failed and allows water into the boot.
Mine has been to the south of France last year and back at 130kph on the Motorway no hassles at all.
These are extremely reliable cars if given basic attention like plugs, oil and filters.
Engine is non-interference as well.

gooner99

Thanks guys.i knew they were supposed to be reliable and your posts cement this.sounds like its worth a punt. At 750 its not a whole lot of money and as you said it can be moved on quite easily.just need to check insurance, as some are refusing older cars.

Is it the 1.6 4afe thats non interferance and if so does that mean you can let the timing belt snap without any damage?

Whats the timing belt intervals on them, i take it that its a kit with waterpump like most modern cars?

StereoSound

Road tax on a 1.6 on the old system would be abit of a killer would it not? Close to €600 a year.

Edwardius

514 tax,

timing belt 60k miles, it's supposed to be non interference but you'll still have to get towed if it snaps! aux belt drives the water pump but might as well change it at the same time.

JohnBoy26

gooner99 wrote: »

Thanks guys.i knew they were supposed to be reliable and your posts cement this.sounds like its worth a punt. At 750 its not a whole lot of money and as you said it can be moved on quite easily.just need to check insurance, as some are refusing older cars.

Is it the 1.6 4afe thats non interferance and if so does that mean you can let the timing belt snap without any damage?

Whats the timing belt intervals on them, i take it that its a kit with waterpump like most modern cars?

I'm not sure I'd be leaving it get that far tbh even if it is an old car and non interference. Still you won't go far wrong with an avensis of that era. They were truly excellent cars which gave very little problems. It was also far better than most cars in it's class at that time. Just watch out for rust around the back and front screens. The roof panel is susceptible to rust, more so on pre facelift cars for some reason.

CJhaughey

Thats the biggest issue with these, the UK built stuff was patchy with regards to rust treatment. Bodies give up long before the engine/drivetrain.
Mine has rust bubbles patches starting around the sunroof(aftermarket) and on the sill at the rear in front of the wheel.

JohnBoy26

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats the biggest issue with these, the UK built stuff was patchy with regards to rust treatment. Bodies give up long before the engine/drivetrain.
Mine has rust bubbles patches starting around the sunroof(aftermarket) and on the sill at the rear in front of the wheel.

The problem with aftermarket sunroofs is that when the roof is cut the exposed edges are rarely protected with any rust resistant paint. They are just sealed up with sealant. I think this can lead to the bubbling around the sunroof, especially on something that's rust prone.

gooner99

I think this one has a sunroof.but i think its high spec, so could well be a factory fitted one.must fet a look over it at the weekend and take it for a long drive.

I wont take a chance on the timimg belt, even if it is a non interferance engine.

514 tax is a year is a bit steep, but if i were to spend thousands extra on a newer car id imagine it would take a good while to even itself out.

JohnBoy26

gooner99 wrote: »

I think this one has a sunroof.but i think its high spec, so could well be a factory fitted one.must fet a look over it at the weekend and take it for a long drive.

I wont take a chance on the timimg belt, even if it is a non interferance engine.

514 tax is a year is a bit steep, but if i were to spend thousands extra on a newer car id imagine it would take a good while to even itself out.

The factory fitted sunroof shouldn't be a problem

La Fenetre

gooner99 wrote: »

514 tax is a year is a bit steep, but if i were to spend thousands extra on a newer car id imagine it would take a good while to even itself out.

The motor tax is only about 250 a year more.
You'd loose that in just a month or two of depreciation on some newer cars.
As long as it's roadworthy, that car will have zero depreciation now, and if you don't like it flog it on.

saabsaab

Hi, I'd say it is a good bet - just change the fluids, oils water and brake, and it will give no trouble. Some modern cars from my experience have problems with electronics and can be more problematic.

Yoghurt87

I have an Mk1 Avensis also (02) and it's been a fantastic car which owes me nothing, having been used over the last six years commuting for the first half and as a runaround for the second.

I have the same problem though with the leaking boot, getting very bad now to the extent that we put a small hole through the tyre well to release water, and a very odd time in bad weather it drips in from the front passenger door. For those that have used sealant - is it a specific type you need to buy? I know very little about cars (apologies if my question is off-topic).

CJhaughey

Yoghurt87 wrote: »

I have an Mk1 Avensis also (02) and it's been a fantastic car which owes me nothing, having been used over the last six years commuting for the first half and as a runaround for the second.

I have the same problem though with the leaking boot, getting very bad now to the extent that we put a small hole through the tyre well to release water, and a very odd time in bad weather it drips in from the front passenger door. For those that have used sealant - is it a specific type you need to buy? I know very little about cars (apologies if my question is off-topic).

No I used TEC7 but any good polyurethane sealant will work. MS11 etc.
Do not use silicone it will not last.
I don't know which body style you have but they generally leak around the joins at the rear of the body where the side panels meet the back panel.
Saloons, open the boot and the corner of the boot closest to the window.
Close inspection of the area will show you the seam and where they meet the paint cracks and the water leaks in that crack.


One more problem that can manifest is a rattly steering column, easy fix, get down and undo the joint where it joins the steering rack slip the splined joint apart and pack with grease, any kind will do.
Refit and it will be silent.

Other places could be taillight seals as well.
Mine is an estate and the little metal stud where the roof rails mount had a crack around it, I smeared sealant around it and it has been dry since.

Yoghurt87

Thanks very much for that CJhaughey, I really appreciate it - would probably have ended up using silicone otherwise! The car is a saloon. Will give that a go during the week.

CJhaughey

No problem, I have learnt a lot about mine in the last 3 years and 100k miles of ownership.
If mine wasn't starting to rust away I'd keep it.

Guy:Incognito

It's a free (I'm assuming) car. Regardless of what make or model it was, even if it craps itself in 2 months, you're no worse off than you are now. It's a win win.

EDIT. Just seeing its €750. If you're happy with it at that price, then it's not a huge outlay.

cantdecide

My brother's had two high milers. He gets around 38mpg and as dull as they are, they're practical and reliable. Go for it.

johndaman66

StereoSound wrote: »

Road tax on a 1.6 on the old system would be abit of a killer would it not? Close to €600 a year.

As Edwardius mentions its closer to the €500 mark. I agree its steep and the motor tax system in this country is pretty flawed but what you meant to do - go up to a 08 upwards diesel, spend thousands more, loose thousands more in depreciation with the added likelihood of potentially expensive repairs and maintenance, notwithstanding that the poster seems to be looking for a cheap runaround.

gooner99 wrote: »

I think this one has a sunroof.but i think its high spec, so could well be a factory fitted one.

I do know that quite a few of the MK1 Avensis had sunroofs. To the best of my knowledge the facelift models had the choice of a sunroof or air-con - even the low spec models so guessing it may possibly have been the same with the pre faclift models

pablo128

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats the biggest issue with these, the UK built stuff was patchy with regards to rust treatment. Bodies give up long before the engine/drivetrain.
Mine has rust bubbles patches starting around the sunroof(aftermarket) and on the sill at the rear in front of the wheel.

All Avensis's have been built in the UK. I had a diesel 01 for 6 years. I'd still have it if it hadn't rusted badly in the inner sills at the rear. Proper bullet proof cars that will put up with a fair amount of stick.

The Sidewards Man

Plain jane old yoke but like a good donkey it will do the job.

saabsaab

It has to be a non-acid sealant, not regular silicone or it will accelerate the rust!

zurbfoundation

if its the 4afe then dont worry about the milage - it just wont give up.

if its the vvti, then just watch the oil, but if its made it this far with only requiring a drop, then you are probably safe.

gooner99

Cheers for the replies. First hurdle, I had a second policy with Allianz which expired a few months back when the second car went off the road. Now they don't take cars over 15 years old. My last car was 00 so just came inside of that. Who is worth trying?

Muckie

Hear good thing about Bank of Ireland giving quotes for older cars.

Im going to try them, i have just gotten a 99 Yaris.

gooner99

A free lance agent is checking around for me. Hopefully not too overpriced. Ran one online there, almost 700.madness.

CJhaughey

gooner99 wrote: »

A free lance agent is checking around for me. Hopefully not too overpriced. Ran one online there, almost 700.madness.

The last insurance company you had are required to quote you IIRC.

gooner99

CJhaughey wrote: »

The last insurance company you had are required to quote you IIRC.

Allianz it was. The policy expired in May, so I'd imagine they were probably treating it as-a new policy?

They asked me for every little detail again despite me giving them the old policy number.

gooner99

Best quote so far. €420 tpf&t for wife and myself. Broker reckons they would come in lower if the car was or under 15 years old.

La Fenetre

Muckie wrote: »

Hear good thing about Bank of Ireland giving quotes for older cars.

Im going to try them, i have just gotten a 99 Yaris.

In 2007, they would have lent you 450,000 to buy it . . .

Leonard Hofstadter

Those 4A-FE engines (which I'm assuming this is) are nigh on indestructible.

That said, even a non-oil burning VVTi will last a long time. If I was buying a VVTi engined one, I'd be looking for one with lots of miles (at least 150k), oil burners suffer the problem from as early as 60,000 miles, if there's at least 150,000 miles on the clock you don't need to worry as it simply wouldn't have reached that kind of mileage if oil burning was a problem!

Regardless of engine, I would check the oil level every 500 miles or so at least to start with, you'll get a good idea at that stage as to how much oil it's burning (unlikely in a 4A-FE unless we're talking about 200,000 miles upwards). Once you're happy you know how much oil is being used I'd still check at least every 1,500 miles to be on the safe side, really other than that there's nothing to worry about from a reliability perspective, as others have mentioned the main issue is rust; the bodywork will have given up long before the engine will.

gooner99

Thanks all again for your help and advice. Just picked up the Avensis yesterday. Happy with it, drives nice and tight and doesn't seem too sore on juice so far. 99 1.6 4afe luna with 240k miles on the clock, serviced in October, timing belt not due for another 20k miles. This car was well looked after, in great condition for year. It still had it's 3 keys, service book stamped till 09 (mixture of dealer and indy) and owners manual. Even has the touch-up tape. Taxed till end of month and NCT till August. I'll see if I can manage to post a few pics when the weather improves.

I have a few questions if you guys with experience of them can help.

1. Wipers only work on fastest setting. Is it an easy fix, a stalk or some sort of switch problem?

2. The lights are out on the heating section and on the odo + time/temperature section. Again easy to rectify?

3. There is no rust on the body, but there is some bubbling below the paint on parts of the sills. What is the best course of action. I live right on the coast, so probably wise to do something now?

4. Service book states "most commercially available oils are acceptable provided they meet API SH/SG (Petrol) or API CE/CD (diesel) standards. Viscosity grades are 10W/40, 15W/40". I take it that the 15w/40 is for diesel and that I'm interested in 10W/40. Sounds like it's not too fuzzy and I'd imagine during it's life of indy servicing it just got the usual 10W/40 that was in the big drum they usually have. Is there anything I should look for in an oil for it, standards,type,brands,etc..?

Thinks that's it for now guys. Thanks again.

PS. Remember I have the service book and owners manual for this model Avensis, so if any of you don't have it and need some info, give me a shout.

pablo128

If nothing else, get the rust sorted properly on the sills. I ignored mine, and that was the death of the car a few years later.

Leonard Hofstadter

As above, make sure you deal with the rust before anything else. If you catch it in time you should get another bit out of it, but if it's too fargone then really the only option is to scrap it.

Those Lunas were surprisingly well equipped for the time (especially considering that it's an Irish car and Toyota Ireland always stripped everything out), there was leather steering wheel, gearknob and handbrake, there is also, alloys, front fogs and even air conditioning :eek:. At 240,000 miles there's still a bit of life left in it!

Edwardius

Re. heater lights: you have to pry off the centre console surround (use something plastic to avoid scraping it), it's held in by 4 or 6 clips and should come away easily enough. Detach the harness for the hazards and rear window demister and pull the surround away.

Pull all the knobs off the heater control and unclip the front of the heater panel (I forget if you need to detach the full panel but it's only a couple of philips screws). There's 3 T5 bulbs like these... pull 'em out and replace them.

I put LEDs in but they were too bright and focused, Incandescent bulbs look better.

Re oil: screenshot from the user manual



I don't think the brand matters as long as it meets the spec, which itself isn't too stringent.

Re the sills: How are the rest of you treating this? sand, treat and paint? My rear driver side sill is starting to bubble a bit and I should probably do something (although I'm going to wait for insurance renewal time before doing anything, things seem to be grim for older cars)

gooner99

Thanks for the replies. Yes the bubbling is the first thing I need to get sorted. I must bring it into the local bodyshop to see what he recommends. He is pretty damn good and not too expensive.

Anyone experience with the wiper stalk problem?

What oils are you guys using/recommending?

gooner99

So have the car a few weeks now and it's going grand. The wiper problem is a bit bizarre. Initially it only works on the fastest setting, but after its on constantly for about 10-15 minutes it will then work on the lower and intermittent settings. Turn it off fully again for a wee while and we're back to square one. It's as if the motor is warming up if you you what I mean. Any ideas or experience?

Also on the oil changes. Do you guys change the oil and filter on these 4afe engines at the stated 9k miles or are you doing it more often on high milers?

JohnBoy26

gooner99 wrote: »

So have the car a few weeks now and it's going grand. The wiper problem is a bit bizarre. Initially it only works on the fastest setting, but after its on constantly for about 10-15 minutes it will then work on the lower and intermittent settings. Turn it off fully again for a wee while and we're back to square one. It's as if the motor is warming up if you you what I mean. Any ideas or experience?

Also on the oil changes. Do you guys change the oil and filter on these 4afe engines at the stated 9k miles or are you doing it more often on high milers?

When I had a 4efe I used to change the oil a few k earlier than the interval. You don't have to do it before the interval though.

Leonard Hofstadter

Weren't 4A-FEs supposed to be serviced every 6,000 miles, or did they change that when they switched over to the Avensis? I definitely remember the Carina E we had (which has the same engine) needing a trip to the garage every 6k miles. I always thought it was only when they switched to VVTis that the 9k miles / 15k km interval came in.

JohnBoy26

captainspeed wrote: »

Weren't 4A-FEs supposed to be serviced every 6,000 miles, or did they change that when they switched over to the Avensis? I definitely remember the Carina E we had (which has the same engine) needing a trip to the garage every 6k miles. I always thought it was only when they switched to VVTis that the 9k miles / 15k km interval came in.

My 1998 4e powered corolla had 9k intervals in the service book. Weather the 4a is different in this regard I'm not sure.