80cm smart dish not as good as sky dish??

thisNthat

Hi everyone,

I had a sky dish and quad LNB and it was working perfectly fine, but the wall bracket which it was attached too got so rusty over the last 3 years it just disintegrated in last weekends winds.
So I bought an 80cm Smart dish and universal quad LNB, The problem is the 80cm dish is not giving me as strong a signal as the sky dish even tho its much larger (I can't receive some channels and many others and very choppy), I’ve double checked all the connections and I have a good digital sat finder too but no matter which way I adjust the dish or LNB its just not as strong as the sky dish was.

The max SNR is 60 on the few best channels and around 35/40 on most others, The AGC is between 80 to 95 depending on the channel and the BER is 0.
Its installed in the exact same location as the sky dish too so it makes no sense.
Is there anything I’m missing here?

I live on the west coast so I assumed the bigger dish would be better but so far its not

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks in advance

stanley1

put the box and tv where you can see them, connect with short run of coax, move dish up, down, sideways very slowly till signal maxes out, run through stations, should be perfect, sky dish is pretty rubbish, 80cm dish should be a lot better.

thisNthat

Thanks for the reply,
Trust me I've gone every which way possible and as slow as possible,
I'm using a Smart Smartmeter S10, Very good digital sat finder.

80cm dish should be a lot better (My thinking exactly) but it's not giving me as strong a signal as the sky dish (I also think the sky dishes are crap but they do there job, altho they get eaten with rust very quickly).

stanley1 wrote: »

put the box and tv where you can see them, connect with short run of coax, move dish up, down, sideways very slowly till signal maxes out, run through stations, should be perfect, sky dish is pretty rubbish, 80cm dish should be a lot better.

steveon

Wont give u more signal as a 60cm would be suffice for Astra 2, it will simply provide a more stable signal in bad weather.

If signal is poor either the dish is badly aligned or the skew of the lnb is in the wrong place, twist the lnb to adjust the skew.

Its possible your meter is not also not calibrated properly with the addition of Astra 2g your meter mite need updating.

Never used a smart dish before looking at their prices Id imagine there a cheap clone of a triax dish from the look of them...

steveon

stanley1 wrote: »

put the box and tv where you can see them, connect with short run of coax, move dish up, down, sideways very slowly till signal maxes out, run through stations, should be perfect, sky dish is pretty rubbish, 80cm dish should be a lot better.

He is using a meter why would he need to do that???

mass_debater

I suspect the skew is off, twist the lnb

thisNthat

Unfortunately I tried that too from left to right to the point it was nearly 90 degrees to the arm. I left it at the best point I could get from it.

mass_debater wrote: »

I suspect the skew is off, twist the lnb

steveon

As I said poor aligned meter look for an update for it or it mite just be the max signal u are getting from the lnb some meters do not work properly with some lnbs especially cheaper branded ones..

An 80cm dish is complete overkill for astra 2 and is not required in this country...it is only useful when needed for astra 1 or hotbird

thisNthat

Thanks for the response,
Just looked online there and the last update for that meter was in 2012, So I guess that could be it,
Altho it's not exactly a cheap meter at €350 at the time of purchase

I live on the west coast beside the sea so a bigger dish isn't really overkill (Just my opinion).
I'll try all suggestions again over the weekend and let ye know how I get on
Thanks all for the replies

steveon wrote: »

As I said poor aligned meter look for an update for it or it mite just be the max signal u are getting from the lnb some meters do not work properly with some lnbs especially cheaper branded ones..

An 80cm dish is complete overkill for astra 2 and is not required in this country...it is only useful when needed for astra 1 or hotbird

my3cents

Probably a stupid question but have you cut a couple of feet off the cable and remade the connections. Not always possible I know but in our exposed location I've found some (probably cheap) cable just rots away internally, left alone its OK but take it down and move it and its never the same.

thisNthat

I have indeed, One of the first things I thought of too, I've new F-Connectors on each cable aswell.
Thanks for reply

my3cents wrote: »

Probably a stupid question but have you cut a couple of feet off the cable and remade the connections. Not always possible I know but in our exposed location I've found some (probably cheap) cable just rots away internally, left alone its OK but take it down and move it and its never the same.

my3cents

The only other thing I can think of if all the results are consistent is that there is something wrong with the geometry of the dish, like the arm is bent or is the wrong one?

steveon

This thread is getting ridilculous from connecting to a tv to using new f connector...the thread originator has already stated he is aligning the dish with a satellite meter.....

Is the box breaking up since you aligned the dish to the maximum signal received when aligning with your meter...

as I have already stated an 80cm dish will not give u a stronger signal as a 60cm dish will give u upto 100% in most parts of Ireland when aligned properly...

only reasons for a bad signal from a dish when aligning from a meter are

1 a badly calibrated meter
2 a faulty dish
3 poor line of sight
4 skew of lnb
5. faulty lnb

It has nothing to do with the cable down to the tv. New configurations for astra 2g need to be added to your meter which currently probably has reading for the old sat 2e or earlier....you simply need to add a transponder to your meter for this sat which can be found online at

http://en.kingofsat.net/sat-astra2g.php

Look up the freetv website plenty of info on how to do it with ur meter

Personally reckon this is your problem or its simply a poorly built dish as at just over €30 for the dish I couldnt imagine its of a very good build or quality product.....but I have never used one so I could be wrong and stand open for correction.

thisNthat

Maybe.. I didn't notice anything damaged or bent when putting it together or installing it but I'll double check over the weekend in daylight.

my3cents wrote: »

The only other thing I can think of if all the results are consistent is that there is something wrong with the geometry of the dish, like the arm is bent or is the wrong one?

thisNthat

1 a badly calibrated meter
Maybe?

2 a faulty dish
It's not damaged or bent so just curious how it can be faulty?

3 poor line of sight
Excellent line of sight

4 skew of lnb
Tried every possible way and left it at the best signal I could get

5. faulty lnb
Maybe.. but its brand new so I doubt it

Thanks for the advice, I'll try again over the weekend

winston_1

steveon wrote: »

as I have already stated an 80cm dish will not give u a stronger signal as a 60cm dish will give u upto 100% in most parts of Ireland when aligned properly...

Rubbish, of course a bigger dish should give more signal. What is this 100% you are on about, 100% of what?


It is quite possible the dish is distorted, how was it delivered? An error of say 3mm is all that is required and that can't be seen with the naked eye.

TAFKAlawhec

steveon wrote: »

An 80cm dish is complete overkill for astra 2 and is not required in this country...it is only useful when needed for astra 1 or hotbird

In my experience in Co. Tyrone, Astra 1 satellites on the Pan-Euro footprints come in as strong as the Astra 2E & 2F Pan-Euro footprints themselves. I reckon most people in Ireland could get Astra 1 services on a Sky Zone 2 dish without much trouble.

Anyway, an 80cm dish isn't that much overkill - while the Astra 2 UK/Ireland spot beams can come blasting in, the rest can vary. With Eutelsat 28A now out to pasture, the weakest signals from this position come from the Astra 2G Pan-Euro beam which is shaped differently to that from its 2E & 2F cousins which are more biased towards western Europe while 2G's covers more towards the east at the expense of some strength on the Atlantic fringes. An 80cm dish here in this case will give a much better rain fade margin compared to a Sky Zone 2 dish for the Pan-Euro 2G channels and although not the case with the OP, would be recommended for setups involving multiswitches.

Back to the OP, I'd suspect that there is a mechanical problem somewhere here, either the dish is slightly warped or that there is a problem either with the LNB or at its focal point - it might be that the LNB needs to be brought closer or further away from the dish in its holder aside from any skew applied (how much this can be done depends on the length of the neck of the LNB) as too near the dish means seeing only part of the dish face along with not getting the best focus, while too far again will see you not get the best focus as well as being more vulnerable to picking up noise from the dish edge and behind it. Might also be the case that one or more outputs on the quad LNB is faulty and another one should be tried, or that the LNB is a duff one, new or otherwise. A different universal LNB at hand, even just one with a single output, could be swapped in to check. If results are better, the it's likely the Quad LNB is at fault. If there is no difference, I'd suspect the dish is the problem.

thisNthat

SOLVED...

Firstly thanks to all for your opinions and replies, Much appreciated

I figured out the problem after all, It was done to an alignment issue.
I have a Smart Smartmeter S10, The problem is the last available update for this device from the manufacturer was in 2012 and a lot has changed since then with new satellites and transponders etc. (Many of which weren't on the meter itself).

So I found one of the channels where there was 0-SNR 0-AGC and 0-BER, One of those channels happened to be RT HD on Astra 2G.
I manually input those transponder details into the sat meter and tried alignment again and after a small adjustment the meter level went straight up.
I'm now getting 76% SNR, 84% AGC and 0% BER on the channels that were non existent and the one's that were watchable are now coming in at 91% SNR, 91% AGC and 0 BER,
So to answer my original question, An 80cm dish is far far better than a sky dish for reception, on the west coast of Ireland anyway.
As the old saying goes - Tools are only as good as the monkey who's using them (Places head firmly in hands)

The sky dish was working fine but I was never getting over 90% on both SNR and AGC so the 80cm dish is far superior and being near the sea air on the west coast hopefully the Plastic arm and Dish bracket will last longer as they're resistant to corrosion.

Again thanks to all for the replies.

my3cents

Re corrosion, I've found a spray can of White lithium grease really good. I spray all mounting points nuts and bolt threads and it stays on and protects really well. Not so good if your bothered with aesthetics on a dark coloured dish. I'm near the sea and a dish can last as little as 2 years left unprotected but going 4 years now with one well greased up.

thisNthat

You're right, If you get 3 years from a sky dish beside the sea you're doing well,
I know they're not overly expensive, but, if anything can avoid the hassle of having to reinstall them every couple of years then its greatly welcome.

my3cents wrote: »

Re corrosion, I've found a spray can of White lithium grease really good. I spray all mounting points nuts and bolt threads and it stays on and protects really well. Not so good if your bothered with aesthetics on a dark coloured dish. I'm near the sea and a dish can last as little as 2 years left unprotected but going 4 years now with one well greased up.

mass_debater

thisNthat wrote: »

You're right, If you get 3 years from a sky dish beside the sea you're doing well,
I know they're not overly expensive, but, if anything can avoid the hassle of having to reinstall them every couple of years then its greatly welcome.

Aluminium dishes are not expensive

my3cents

mass_debater wrote: »

Aluminium dishes are not expensive

You obviously don't live by the sea, Aluminum even with a good finish is destroyed by salt spray.

mass_debater

my3cents wrote: »

You obviously don't live by the sea, Aluminum even with a good finish is destroyed by salt spray.

I've installed plenty of them in the west. Get the Inverto polyester coated aluminum dish. Lasts for years.