Player power gone too far?

cms88

Has player power in the GAA got out of hand?

Two more examples of it lately of teams placing the blame on the manager and not taking responsibility for their own displays on the field.

I've always said that the GPA are the ones who have been behind this whole player power thing. They has become a body with ridiculous notions of its own importance, inter-county players thinking that they can dictate who their manager is and isn't, and more or less issuing statements to basically blackmail a man out of his job.
Anthony Cunningham's service to Galway GAA over the past thirty plus years has been incredible, a list of achievements in both codes that the current players can only dream of, his workload for those players has been phenomenal since 2012 and the 23 players who indicated that they would refuse to play under his management should be utterly ashamed of their cowardly actions.
The GPA'S role in this cannot be overlooked, they have become extremely divisive within an Association known for its unity, players at that level seem to believe that they are highly elite athletes entitled to a very wide range of benefits, as much as they say they do it for the love of the. Sean Potty, a key member of the GPA issued an embarrassing statement last week criticising the GAA and the excellent documentary about All Ireland final day, a sad day for the GAA.

I just wonder where do the GPA stand on an anti manager stance being taken by county players?

On another note, have any of these actions ever really benefited a team? What did it achieve in Cork? Or Limerick? People will say Limerick have improved but thats more down to the Under 21 teams from 2011 more than their strike. In resent years we've even seen Fermanagh players going on strike!

At what point will managers say enough is enough and just not bother anymore? Galway hurlers will find it hard to get someone to manage them if this is their attitude and the same will more than likely happen again.

ProudDUB

cms88 wrote: »

Sean Potty, a key member of the GPA issued an embarrassing statement last week criticising the GAA and the excellent documentary about All Ireland final day, a sad day for the GAA.

That's a rather over the top reaction imo. The only beef the GPA had with the RTE documentary, was that the Dublin & Kerry players were not told before the game, that the ref was going to be mic'd up. So they did not know that everything they said to him was going to be broadcast in the documentary. Several players complained about it to the GPA - hence their statement on the matter. Several players have also spoken out publicly in the media, for not being told about it beforehand, Colm Cooper & Jack McCaffrey being the most recent ones. The GPA's statement merely reflected the players own concerns. How on on earth can that be "a sad day" for the GAA?

Diabhal Beag

I thought Cunningham deserved better myself (although he did that annoying thing of alluding to things he has no intention of ever revealing such as external names) but at the same time I as a fan haven't trained under him, I haven't had to communicate with him outside of training/matches or taken tactics from him. The players have. I didn't like how the Galway situation was dealt with but do agree that players should have the final say. Although I will say if one county in the country would abuse this player power system it's definitely the almost incestuous Galway hurling scene where clubs are constantly at arms with each other to a childish extent.

It's an amateur sport where even some of the best intercounty teams stiff on expenses. The least the players should get is the ultimate choice on who they commit a ridiculous amount of their year too. Why shouldn't they choose who get the choice rather than county boards? I don't think the GPA are the evil beast at all in this scenario.

cms88

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I thought Cunningham deserved better myself (although he did that annoying thing of alluding to things he has no intention of ever revealing such as external names) but at the same time I as a fan haven't trained under him, I haven't had to communicate with him outside of training/matches or taken tactics from him. The players have. I didn't like how the Galway situation was dealt with but do agree that players should have the final say. Although I will say if one county in the country would abuse this player power system it's definitely the almost incestuous Galway hurling scene where clubs are constantly at arms with each other to a childish extent.

It's an amateur sport where even some of the best intercounty teams stiff on expenses. The least the players should get is the ultimate choice on who they commit a ridiculous amount of their year too. Why shouldn't they choose who get the choice rather than county boards? I don't think the GPA are the evil beast at all in this scenario.

Why should they? Does it happen in any other sport? Why do GAA players seem to think they have a right to decide who the manager is?

Mehapoy

cms88 wrote: »

Why should they? Does it happen in any other sport? Why do GAA players seem to think they have a right to decide who the manager is?

Because they are amateurs giving up their time to an almost professional degree...if they feel they are being let down by the management not being up to scratch then that is their perogitive to try to effect change, considering the clownish nature of most county boards I'm suprised it doesn't happen more often ...if they are paid employees then its a different matter but as they are volunteers a lot if power resides with the players, about time they recognised and used this to their advantage

ArmaniJeanss

cms88 wrote: »

Why should they? Does it happen in any other sport? Why do GAA players seem to think they have a right to decide who the manager is?

In other sports at such an elite level you are getting paid (which is an incentive not to rock the boat) and also have the option to request/arrange a transfer to another team.
In GAA your only options are to stop playing completely, or vocally complain about the management.

ProudDUB

cms88 wrote: »

Why should they? Does it happen in any other sport? Why do GAA players seem to think they have a right to decide who the manager is?

Because they are the ones who are sacrificing a lot too. In your opening post, you mention the work rate and hard work that AC has put in for the Galway cause. Well, what of the players work rate and commitment? That works both ways.

Something AC did 30 years ago is entirely irrelevant. No one should have a job for life, just because they have been on the coaching scene for a very long time, or because they have worked hard. So what if he worked hard? Lots of people work hard. This is a results business. What he did recently is what matters, not what he did 30 years ago.

These days, being an inter county player is a full time job in its self. Players are putting their entire lives and careers on hold to follow their dream. I am not saying that the selection of managers should be entirely up to them, but they are definitely entitled to have an opinion on who takes them down the road that they give up so much to be on. They had already spoken up and let AC know that he had taken them as far as he could & it was time for a change. His being reappointed - with zero consideration of that fact - was very, very foolish imo. The days that players were expected to just put up and shut up are long gone.

homerjay2005

i have it on good grounds that Galway Hurling issue was orchestrated by a certain player who caused complete upheaval in the dressing room at half time in the All Ireland final due to a management decision about him.

certain player happens to be the son of a prominent man in Galway GAA who has other interests at play and has perhaps an eye on being involved in the set up in the future.

sadly these type of things have been rife in the GAA for years so its nothing new and nothing to do with player power being on the rise at all.

DoctaDee

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have it on good grounds that Galway Hurling issue was orchestrated by a certain player who caused complete upheaval in the dressing room at half time in the All Ireland final due to a management decision about him.

certain player happens to be the son of a prominent man in Galway GAA who has other interests at play and has perhaps an eye on being involved in the set up in the future.

sadly these type of things have been rife in the GAA for years so its nothing new and nothing to do with player power being on the rise at all.

I'm not a huge fan of rumours or hearing stories 2nd hand, so I tend to be reticent about putting it out here ... but that's nearly verbatim what I was told happened at HT also ... the treatment of AC was shocking by all accounts

ProudDUB

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have it on good grounds that Galway Hurling issue was orchestrated by a certain player who caused complete upheaval in the dressing room at half time in the All Ireland final due to a management decision about him.

certain player happens to be the son of a prominent man in Galway GAA who has other interests at play and has perhaps an eye on being involved in the set up in the future.

sadly these type of things have been rife in the GAA for years so its nothing new and nothing to do with player power being on the rise at all.

And the players father got into the dressing room at half time and had a go at Cunningham. We've all heard that piece of gossip. But whether it is true or not, how does one unhappy player, translate to a 23-9 vote of no confidence in AC?

big_drive

cms88 wrote: »

On another note, have any of these actions ever really benefited a team? What did it achieve in Cork? Or Limerick? People will say Limerick have improved but thats more down to the Under 21 teams from 2011 more than their strike. In resent years we've even seen Fermanagh players going on strike!

Well the first strike in Cork without a doubt helped the hurling team win All Irelands in 2004 and 2005


And then the footballers strike over the appointment of Teddy Holland paved the way for the All Ireland win in 2010


So you could say that in Cork it was a big benefit.


In other counties maybe not so much.

DoctaDee

ProudDUB wrote: »

And the players father got into the dressing room at half time and had a go at Cunningham. We've all heard that piece of gossip. But whether it is true or not, how does one unhappy player, translate to a 23-9 vote of no confidence in AC?

I think there's blurred lines between having no confidence and not liking someone

ProudDUB

DoctaDee wrote: »

I think there's blurred lines between having no confidence and not liking someone

But there are no blurred lines, or grey areas in a vote of no confidence in a manager.

You either vote Yes or you vote No. There are no "Maybe" or "What If" votes

A vote means that you have to come down off the fence and nail your colors firmly to one mast. 23 out of 32 players chose to vote in favour of getting in new management. I fail to see how just one players unhappiness could influence proceedings to such a degree, or how his powerful father could, even if his father was Michael D. Higgins. (He isn't, is he? )

Tommy Kelly

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i have it on good grounds that Galway Hurling issue was orchestrated by a certain player who caused complete upheaval in the dressing room at half time in the All Ireland final due to a management decision about him.

certain player happens to be the son of a prominent man in Galway GAA who has other interests at play and has perhaps an eye on being involved in the set up in the future.

sadly these type of things have been rife in the GAA for years so its nothing new and nothing to do with player power being on the rise at all.

It's strongly rumoured that 'Daddy' is supposed to be part of the trio to replace Cunningham & co. A bigger prick than the young lad.

You couldn't make it up.

Smith614

ProudDUB wrote: »

And the players father got into the dressing room at half time and had a go at Cunningham. We've all heard that piece of gossip. But whether it is true or not, how does one unhappy player, translate to a 23-9 vote of no confidence in AC?

Like it or not 3 or 4 players rule every dressing room. The cork strikes were led by a few and who was going to take them on from within panel? Same problem in Galway , a manager can do as he wants but do not step on the toes of the "leaders" of the dressing room. The Galway players are now in Boston enjoying a junket but if the Galway county board were any good they would have cancelled this a few weeks ago because of the problems in Galway.
A few of the leaders had splinters in the backsides in croke park and a few of the other leaders should have been pulled ashore also. Even the most over rated player n Ireland bottled it again.

MfMan

cms88 wrote: »

Has player power in the GAA got out of hand?

Two more examples of it lately of teams placing the blame on the manager and not taking responsibility for their own displays on the field.

I've always said that the GPA are the ones who have been behind this whole player power thing. They has become a body with ridiculous notions of its own importance, inter-county players thinking that they can dictate who their manager is and isn't, and more or less issuing statements to basically blackmail a man out of his job.
Anthony Cunningham's service to Galway GAA over the past thirty plus years has been incredible, a list of achievements in both codes that the current players can only dream of, his workload for those players has been phenomenal since 2012 and the 23 players who indicated that they would refuse to play under his management should be utterly ashamed of their cowardly actions.
The GPA'S role in this cannot be overlooked, they have become extremely divisive within an Association known for its unity, players at that level seem to believe that they are highly elite athletes entitled to a very wide range of benefits, as much as they say they do it for the love of the. Sean Potty, a key member of the GPA issued an embarrassing statement last week criticising the GAA and the excellent documentary about All Ireland final day, a sad day for the GAA.

I just wonder where do the GPA stand on an anti manager stance being taken by county players?

On another note, have any of these actions ever really benefited a team? What did it achieve in Cork? Or Limerick? People will say Limerick have improved but thats more down to the Under 21 teams from 2011 more than their strike. In resent years we've even seen Fermanagh players going on strike!

At what point will managers say enough is enough and just not bother anymore? Galway hurlers will find it hard to get someone to manage them if this is their attitude and the same will more than likely happen again.

Why pick specifically on Galway?

Can't deny Cunningham has worked hard for Galway, but that doesn't automatically equate to success and he has actually won very little as manager of various county teams. (Unlike most of the county's managers, he's never made an impact on the NHL in his 4 years.) A lot of supporters in the county would have gladly ran him after last year and there's a good lot about still who would be ambivalent about his removal.

Are the Mayo footballers not more cowardly for shifting a management team after 1 season? (They were correct in doing so I believe, as I think they knew that Holmes/Connolly simply weren't good enough to deliver.) Perhaps Galways hurlers are the same?

There's plenty of eager people in the county who would be keen to manage the hurlers - don't worry, they'll be fine.

MfMan

Smith614 wrote: »

Like it or not 3 or 4 players rule every dressing room. The cork strikes were led by a few and who was going to take them on from within panel? Same problem in Galway , a manager can do as he wants but do not step on the toes of the "leaders" of the dressing room. The Galway players are now in Boston enjoying a junket but if the Galway county board were any good they would have cancelled this a few weeks ago because of the problems in Galway.
A few of the leaders had splinters in the backsides in croke park and a few of the other leaders should have been pulled ashore also. Even the most over rated player n Ireland bottled it again.

If you're referring to Joe Canning, let us remind you again he was the championship's top scorer, this despite having his hand split almost in half in a challenge game a few weeks prior to the start of it.

from_atozinc

ProudDUB wrote: »

And the players father got into the dressing room at half time and had a go at Cunningham. We've all heard that piece of gossip. But whether it is true or not, how does one unhappy player, translate to a 23-9 vote of no confidence in AC?

I still don't know how a players father, who presumably has a seat in the stand etc made it from the stand all the way to the dressing room. He would not even have the authority to get in I would think.

BrianBoru00

big_drive wrote: »

Well the first strike in Cork without a doubt helped the hurling team win All Irelands in 2004 and 2005


And then the footballers strike over the appointment of Teddy Holland paved the way for the All Ireland win in 2010


So you could say that in Cork it was a big benefit.


In other counties maybe not so much.

You could also say it was ultimately detrimental.
The hurlers have since gone 10 years without winning and All Ireland while one Football All Ireland was another under achievement given the players available to them

ProudDUB

from_atozinc wrote: »

I still don't know how a players father, who presumably has a seat in the stand etc made it from the stand all the way to the dressing room. He would not even have the authority to get in I would think.

Of course he didn't have the authority to be there. But there would be a lot of well connected GAA people who would be well capable of bull$hitting their way into places in Croke Park that they shouldn't be in. :rolleyes:

PressRun

I have no problem with players having more of a say in management. I absolutely do not subscribe to the belief that players should be seen and not heard, and I actually think that attitude is a much more serious problem within the GAA than player power. The abuse that amateur players get for 'daring' to speak up on issues that hugely impact their lives is outrageous, and it goes right back to the idea that those up on high in the GAA just don't like to be challenged on any of their decisions. County boards, and the incompetent shambolic messes many of them have descended into, should be open to much more criticism for a start. The issues in Mayo go right back to mishandling on the part of the county board, for example. It's really they who should be taking flak for a lot of these issues, rather than having everyone gunning for the players, who just happen to be on the front line. They'd rather the players just shut up and get on with it though.

I also think calling players who vote out management 'cowards' is ridiculous. You can argue about whether or not certain managers deserved to get the sack or not, but people need to start using their language a bit more accurately. I have no doubt that players who make moves to oust management know exactly what they're letting themselves in for when they make such a move. They're knowingly putting their reputations on the line and opening themselves up to all kinds of scrutiny and vilification by certain people who don't even know the half of what's going on behind the scenes. These are players who put in huge amounts of time and effort and make a lot of personal sacrifices, and they're not getting paid for it. Calling them cowardly for taking a risk and speaking up on how a huge part of their lives is handled is totally unfair and just plain inaccurate.

I can't speak for what went on in the Galway dressing room. I have no idea what it is like to work with Anthony Cunningham or whether what happened to him was fair or unfair, so I'm not going to speculate. But the bottom line is, if 23 players were not happy with him, then that's really the end of it. Could it have been handled a bit more delicately? Maybe. The fact remains though, if counties want their players performing to the highest standard possible, then there has to be an acceptance of the fact that the players, the ones who go out there and put themselves in the firing line, deserve to have their voices heard. If there's a disconnect between players and management, or unhappiness within the team, then it's unlikely you're going to get the best out of them. That's just the nature of being human. Players are people, not machines.

Hulk Hands

Anyone in touch with Galway hurling has heard some frankly disgusting stories about Cunningham, which can't be repeated here, yet we allow national media to portray him as a fallen hero, and the players as spoilt underachievers.

The players have been ridiculously hard done by by this affair. They wanted rid of AC in 14 but didnt rock the boat for fear of being portrayed as spoilt kids after a poor year. A diabolical league campaign later, and again the players wanted rid. They decided to be adults and not rock the boat 3 weeks before championship.

Galway then won 3 championship games, and lost two. This "miracle" was attributed to AC. No kinda context that maybe very good hulers happened to hurl well in two one off games in August. In fact, terrible backline management almost lost them the semi, where they were all over tipp.

The players once again voted no confidence, had the decency to keep this quiet and say it to him directly before the ratify meeting. He them lied to county board the following night, saying everyone was behind him, and no issues. And got ratified due to his lies. Fair play to the players and good riddance to a horrible manager

ProudDUB

That is an excellent post PressRun, very, very well said.

Some of the the out dated notions expressed here, about the dangers of so called player power, are far more harmful to the long term health and welfare of the game and players, than anything that the GPA could ever do.

PressRun

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Anyone in touch with Galway hurling has heard some frankly disgusting stories about Cunningham, which can't be repeated here, yet we allow national media to portray him as a fallen hero, and the players as spoilt underachievers.

The players have been ridiculously hard done by by this affair. They wanted rid of AC in 14 but didnt rock the boat for fear of being portrayed as spoilt kids after a poor year. A diabolical league campaign later, and again the players wanted rid. They decided to be adults and not rock the boat 3 weeks before championship.

Galway then won 3 championship games, and lost two. This "miracle" was attributed to AC. No kinda context that maybe very good hulers happened to hurl well in two one off games in August. In fact, terrible backline management almost lost them the semi, where they were all over tipp.

The players once again voted no confidence, had the decency to keep this quiet and say it to him directly before the ratify meeting. He them lied to county board the following night, saying everyone was behind him, and no issues. And got ratified due to his lies. Fair play to the players and good riddance to a horrible manager

I'm always very wary of the narrative the media tries to construct around these things, since it nearly always seems to be unwaveringly in favour of management and totally anti-player. Most of the media just tend to toe the GAA's line in these matters and accuse the players of 'blaming others', being 'underachievers', being 'cowardly', etc., when the truth is, more often than not, a lot more complicated. The general public very rarely even know the half of what's going on behind closed doors in these situations. If they did, I suspect the reaction to these player revolts might be a bit different, which is exactly what the GAA doesn't want.

Hulk Hands

cms88 wrote: »

Anthony Cunningham's service to Galway GAA over the past thirty plus years has been incredible, a list of achievements in both codes that the current players can only dream of, his workload for those players has been phenomenal since 2012 and the 23 players who indicated that they would refuse to play under his management should be utterly ashamed of their cowardly actions.

Someone has obviously been taking the national medias view as gospel and hasn't the slightest clue what they're talking about

from_atozinc

ProudDUB wrote: »

Of course he didn't have the authority to be there. But there would be a lot of well connected GAA people who would be well capable of bull$hitting their way into places in Croke Park that they shouldn't be in. :rolleyes:

Oh well soooooory. No need for roll eyes.

gordongekko

ProudDUB wrote: »

Of course he didn't have the authority to be there. But there would be a lot of well connected GAA people who would be well capable of bull$hitting their way into places in Croke Park that they shouldn't be in. :rolleyes:

So a lad without a ticket who was gunning for a fight was allowed access to an all ireland dressing room at half time during an all ireland by bull****ting his way in?

ProudDUB

I have no idea how he got his way in. I was merely surmising how it happened, if the story doing the rounds is true. He's hardly going to march up to a CP dressing room security guard, state his business and then just be waved on through. If the story is true, there had to be some sort of bluff and bluster going on.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The players are the ones who work with the manager, they're the ones who give the commitment each year, they're the ones who are driving everything at inter county level.

I they feel the manager isn't good enough then I don't see the issue and they shouldn't have to waste their time with a manager they don't believe in.

Frankly it's much better as they can have zero excuses going forward and will have to take 100% responsibility for their performances.The players are the ones who stand to gain and lose most at inter county level and they have short enough careers so their is no point in them hanging around with a manager they clearly don't believe in.The players should have more say than any other party in the hiring and firing of managers.

BrianBoru00

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The players are the ones who work with the manager, they're the ones who give the commitment each year, they're the ones who are driving everything at inter county level.

I they feel the manager isn't good enough then I don't see the issue and they shouldn't have to waste their time with a manager they don't believe in.

Frankly it's much better as they can have zero excuses going forward and will have to take 100% responsibility for their performances.The players are the ones who stand to gain and lose most at inter county level and they have short enough careers so their is no point in them hanging around with a manager they clearly don't believe in.The players should have more say than any other party in the hiring and firing of managers.

Buts its a case of the tail wagging the dog.
Should the players pick the team as well?


In any team there will be strong characters and they in turn will have larger influence. They will also have the ability to sway younger more inexperienced players.

In Galways case, they had a chance to win the All Ireland - the comment earlier about losing 2 out of five Championship games is fine and dandy but ignores the fact that it was Kilkenny on both occasions so from an outsider looking in - Galway look to be a team that is very close to being Champions behind a much more experienced Kilkenny team.


I agree that very often , delegates at a county convention are swayed and may not even have the ability to do the right thing - but the players aren't going to be much better.

Some of these players will be completly unaware of the time that the manager puts in - and it is significantly more than the players individually.The players in Galway have now put themselves into a precarious position - If they don't win an All Ireland in the next 2 years with the management that they want, where will that leave them? - They certainly won't be in a better position than they are now.


As regards AC, I'm aware of different opinions on him and has some faults but at the end of the day he can point to them having improved under his stewardship. He is undoubtedly a good manager having done so in two different codes and Im sure he will have had several offers already for 2016.

Dirty Dingus McGee

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Buts its a case of the tail wagging the dog.
Should the players pick the team as well?


In any team there will be strong characters and they in turn will have larger influence. They will also have the ability to sway younger more inexperienced players.

In Galways case, they had a chance to win the All Ireland - the comment earlier about losing 2 out of five Championship games is fine and dandy but ignores the fact that it was Kilkenny on both occasions so from an outsider looking in - Galway look to be a team that is very close to being Champions behind a much more experienced Kilkenny team.


I agree that very often , delegates at a county convention are swayed and may not even have the ability to do the right thing - but the players aren't going to be much better.

Some of these players will be completly unaware of the time that the manager puts in - and it is significantly more than the players individually.The players in Galway have now put themselves into a precarious position - If they don't win an All Ireland in the next 2 years with the management that they want, where will that leave them? - They certainly won't be in a better position than they are now.


As regards AC, I'm aware of different opinions on him and has some faults but at the end of the day he can point to them having improved under his stewardship. He is undoubtedly a good manager having done so in two different codes and Im sure he will have had several offers already for 2016.

If the players are stupid enough to want to pick the team then let them. I doubt such a policy would get very far though and I;m sure the players know that themselves. I would think most teams just want as good a manager as they can get.

The GAA or nobody else can really do anything about player power.Players hold all the power in inter county GAA because they are not tied to any contracts and can do what they like.

If Galway fail to win anything in the next couple of years then the players should take 100% responsibility for it and if they had anything about them they would acknowledge that from now on success and failure is their responsibility and nobody else can be blamed.