Kinsale Road Roundabout - Who was at fault?

Delira

Was hoping to get a few opinions on the VERY near miss I had on the Kinsale road roundabout in Cork today.

I'm the green line trying to get to the 3 o'clock exit and the car that almost hit me is the red line. Where my green line stops being continuous and turn to dots is where I got stuck behind traffic continuing on the roundabout so was stopped and indicating left (to show I was exiting).

When that traffic began to clear, the lights for the red car went green so he went to go straight as I was trying to exit. We both slammed on the breaks and he beeped the horn while shouting and gesticulating at me. I was a bit stunned so I didn't know what to think.

I've only been driving 6 months so was really shaken up by this the whole way home. Rules of the Road state "yield to traffic on your right and traffic already on the roundabout" so I don't think I was in the wrong. But I'm really doubting myself now!!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

You were in the right, you were in the correct lane, there is no yellow hatching to say you can't be where you say you were, you just happen to meet an arsehole on the road, 9/10 people would have seen that you had nowhere else to go with traffic the way it was and whether they had right of way or not they would have waited. I would have anyway...

my3cents

I'd add that you are supposed to wait until your exit is clear? Difficult in these situations when lights are on a roundabout but if you just follow the car in front the same thing will happen again some time. You might get beeped at for stopping and waiting instead of getting stuck in the middle of a junction but if you think you are going to get stuck their you shouldn't really be there.

However sometimes you'd be waiting forever if you don't do what you did so its a bit of a toss up, but if again if you are stuck in the junction when the lights change its your fault. I think you were in the wrong but the other driver wasn't driving with any attention to what was going on.

cantdecide

The only thing you may have done wrong is [even though there isn't a yellow box], you may have, from your description entered a space where you got stuck where traffic was about to get a green light on your left. If that's what happened then learn from your mistake and move on. To be fair though, I reckon the other driver just wanted to ham things up and punish you for your mistake by feigning shock and effectively pretending that you had done something unexpected.

Either way, don't stress about it. Just remember for next time.

jimmycrackcorm

The "golden" rule is to give way to your right. The other driver was in the wrong.

cantdecide

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The "golden" rule is to give way to your right. The other driver was in the wrong.

I'm always reluctant to impart universal rules to new drivers. The only truly universal rule is don't hit anything.

bpmurray

Actually since you were exiting the roundabout, you should be in the left lane if at all possible. Since you were exiting, particularly since you were not moving in that lane, you should be aware of any traffic moving in the left lane (remember, we drive on the left here!!!!), so you should be careful. If you're a careful driver, there wouldn't have been an issue, but if you played the dick and decided to exit a roundabout from the immobile right-hand lane I would say you were very much in the wrong.

FWIW, giving way to the right applies to a junction, not a roundabout. On a roundabout, normal lane rules apply.

colm_mcm

There's 2 lanes going off the roundabout to be fair, so I can't see any issues with lanes.
Only problem I can see is not anticipating what would happen, not understanding what was happening a few cars ahead, and possibly being too close to the car immediately ahead.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

bpmurray wrote: »

Actually since you were exiting the roundabout, you should be in the left lane if at all possible. Since you were exiting, particularly since you were not moving in that lane, you should be aware of any traffic moving in the left lane (remember, we drive on the left here!!!!), so you should be careful. If you're a careful driver, there wouldn't have been an issue, but if you played the dick and decided to exit a roundabout from the immobile right-hand lane I would say you were very much in the wrong.

FWIW, giving way to the right applies to a junction, not a roundabout. On a roundabout, normal lane rules apply.

Two exit lanes. You're wrong. OP was in one of two correct lanes.

my3cents

bpmurray wrote: »

Actually since you were exiting the roundabout, you should be in the left lane if at all possible. Since you were exiting, particularly since you were not moving in that lane, you should be aware of any traffic moving in the left lane (remember, we drive on the left here!!!!), so you should be careful. If you're a careful driver, there wouldn't have been an issue, but if you played the dick and decided to exit a roundabout from the immobile right-hand lane I would say you were very much in the wrong.

FWIW, giving way to the right applies to a junction, not a roundabout. On a roundabout, normal lane rules apply.

iirc this a roundabout with lights at every point around it and lane direction arrows on the road that direct traffic to use both lanes for taking the exits. Because of the lights you have to use both lanes to get the maximum number of cars through at each light change.

bpmurray

my3cents wrote: »

iirc this a roundabout with lights at every point around it and lane direction arrows on the road that direct traffic to use both lanes for taking the exits. Because of the lights you have to use both lanes to get the maximum number of cars through at each light change.

That changes everything - I'm not particularly familiar with the road since I've only driven it a couple of times. If there are road markings, of course they apply. If there are markings, typically the left-hand lane is left turn only, in which case the other car was 100% in the wrong.

dibkins

You shouldn't enter a junction you can't exit without stopping - yellow box or none. OP should have waited at the lights if he/she couldn't exit the roundabout. That roundabout is also signal controlled, so the whole "yield to the right" rule is superseded by the control of the lights - you should never be in a position where you have to yield on this roundabout.

Edit: I should add, the rule to not hit anything is the most important and the other guy was probs overreacting.

SteelyDanJalapeno

This is called the magic roundabout around cork for a reason

CJhaughey

Probably one of the worst designed pieces of road engineering I have ever seen.
I hate it.
The flyover improved flow but the rest of the mess below is still a mess.

my3cents

dibkins wrote: »

You shouldn't enter a junction you can't exit without stopping - yellow box or none. OP should have waited at the lights if he/she couldn't exit the roundabout. That roundabout is also signal controlled, so the whole "yield to the right" rule is superseded by the control of the lights - you should never be in a position where you have to yield on this roundabout.

Edit: I should add, the rule to not hit anything is the most important and the other guy was probs overreacting.

But I think the problem may be at peak times that roundabout has more traffic using it than it can handle, this means you can't always wait for your exit to be clear unless you want to be the one holding up the traffic and causing a backup on the dual carriage way. Its a hard judgment call where you can be in the wrong for all the right reasons. You are doing the right thing to keep the flow of traffic going and the cars behind you will be happy but there will be times when you are in the wrong when you end up caught between lights and will face the anger of cars wanting to join the roundabout.

It could be here that the OP left a bit of a space and when the lights changed the driver pulling on to the roundabout thought the space was for them and instead the OP pulled into it, but just as likely an annoyed driver that was fed up stuck in traffic and looking for someone to take it out on.

brevity

Had a near miss here myself recently.

I was in the green line lane, going straight ahead, idiot to the left of me (in a lane that you can only go straight on) cuts right across me, heading for the airport hill. Cue breaking and blasts of the horn.

Another car following him did the exact same thing.

Asshats!

Yogi81

You were in the right lane, but should have not left the lights until the exit was clear.

SteelyDanJalapeno

brevity wrote: »

Had a near miss here myself recently.

I was in the green line lane, going straight ahead, idiot to the left of me (in a lane that you can only go straight on) cuts right across me, heading for the airport hill. Cue breaking and blasts of the horn.

Another car following him did the exact same thing.

Asshats!

I guess this is 99% of the problem on this roundabout, you're on the inside lane, he's in the middle of a 3 lane roundabout, on every other roundabout in the country he would be able to continue around the roundabout transitioning to the outer lane for the next exit and you shouldn't be allowed to cut accross lanes from the inside lane to exit a roundabout.

Of course this is not the case on the Kinsale road roundabout, and you were completely in the right as per the road markings. It's just madness thou, you constantly need to be aware on that spot in the roundabot as 50% of the time people are going stay on the roundabout in this instance and not exit for the tunnel.

KrakityJones

You probably shouldn't have gone on without a clear exit but I've been in both situations there so I see both sides of the argument.

1) I've been stopped at the lights where your red-line car was, then green line car comes along stuck the the bumper of the exiting cars only for their lights to change and they then get stuck in the middle of the road and blocked me from being able to go.

2) I've also been that green-line car too where the exit looked clear and I had a path to go only for some eejit to try force in from the right land and block my path so I end up stuck where you were and got blown out of it by the red-line fellow.

So you probably shouldn't have pushed so far forward that you'd get caught in that position but it's very hard not to, especially considering if you did wait knowing it wouldn't be clear some fecker behind you would probably have blown you out of it as well for stopping them.

Who's at fault? Whoever designed that portal to hell that is the magic roundy-bout

Delira

OP here. Cheers all for the opinions!

I fully agree with everyone who said I shouldn't have left my lights unless my exit was clear, I defo won't be doing that in future. And also with the poster who pointed out my mistake of failing to anticipate that once I was stuck, the lights for the red car were going to change and I'd have traffic coming at me from my left. I was also stopped too close to the car in front of me so couldn't pull into the other exit lane beside me.

Big lessons learnt here!!

However I still think the right of way was mine as a green light on a roundabout shouldn't mean you plough on regardless of what is happening ahead of you (I do see that that's what I kinda did when I left my lights. Although there wasn't any traffic crossing my path! ). If you're entering a roundabout with no traffic lights and a car is exiting in your path, common sense & the rules of the road tells you to give way and don't bloody enter! Surely same rules apply to a light-controlled roundabout?

Lia_lia

That roundabout is a pain in the arse. Many people don't seem to have any idea what's going on when driving through it, it confuses me a lot. The cars behind you probably would have beeped anyway if you stopped and waited!

mikeym

If you see a car with a rental company sticker on the back window and its Sunday stay well clear of them on the Kinsale/Dunkettle Roundabouts.

They dont have a clue what lane they should be in on roundabouts.

I think the OP was in the right lane because theres a 2 lane exit at the roundabout towards Douglas.

Austria!

Yeah, OP shouldn't have went in the first place, but once he was gone the other driver definitely shouldn't have tried anything and would have been 100% at fault for a crash.

Lia_lia wrote: »

That roundabout is a pain in the arse. Many people don't seem to have any idea what's going on when driving through it, it confuses me a lot. The cars behind you probably would have beeped anyway if you stopped and waited!

I think this is a logical roundabout, despite the extra lanes making it a little trickier. Sarsfields is a lot more complicated despite being have less lanes.

dibkins

my3cents wrote: »

But I think the problem may be at peak times that roundabout has more traffic using it than it can handle, this means you can't always wait for your exit to be clear unless you want to be the one holding up the traffic and causing a backup on the dual carriage way. Its a hard judgment call where you can be in the wrong for all the right reasons. You are doing the right thing to keep the flow of traffic going and the cars behind you will be happy but there will be times when you are in the wrong when you end up caught between lights and will face the anger of cars wanting to join the roundabout.

It could be here that the OP left a bit of a space and when the lights changed the driver pulling on to the roundabout thought the space was for them and instead the OP pulled into it, but just as likely an annoyed driver that was fed up stuck in traffic and looking for someone to take it out on.

Oh, i agree - that roundabout is a disaster! The strict "who was in the wrong" is a lot different than the everyday practicalities of driving.