Flair Controversy

x43r0

So the WWE didn't consult with Flair before using the Reid angle on RAW

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1118/603914/ric-flair-says-the-controversial-raw-ending-made-him-cry/

Jesus Christ

gerrybbadd

x43r0 wrote: »

So the WWE didn't consult with Flair before using the Reid angle on RAW

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1118/603914/ric-flair-says-the-controversial-raw-ending-made-him-cry/

Jesus Christ

I found that angle to be in extremely poor taste. Shocking stuff really

Ruu

Classic WWE move, bring out the dead when there is no reaction. Sad but not surprised.

Agent Coulson

That's the McMahon's for you classy as always.

Also how many of the PG generation audience would even know Reid Flair was dead or even who he was.

J. Marston

Can't wait until the ratings drop even further and they use Benoit wildcard.

JP Liz V1

Ruu wrote: »

Classic WWE move, bring out the dead when there is no reaction. Sad but not surprised.

Yes Taker back after being taken by Wyatt is a fail

A Primal Nut

J. Marston wrote: »

Can't wait until the ratings drop even further and they use Benoit wildcard.

What you mean, using Benoit in a storyline?

That would be.....amazing...just pure car crash tv.

Pentecost

What did Paige say exactly?

gerrybbadd

Pentecost wrote: »

What did Paige say exactly?

There was a bit of back and forth, and Paige said that Reid had no fight in him.

Pentecost

That no good Jezebel

Itssoeasy

Listening to ric flair on his podcast talk about the stuff that was said on raw Monday night. He's clearly angry but was trying to be diplomatic and not hurt Charlotte with wwe.

He says that triple h, Stephanie, and Michael Hayes wouldn't do anything to hurt her.

But my question is when triple h knew about what I'm assuming the creative team wanted Paige to say, that he might have thought "Jesus should I ring ric?" I mean Jesus h Christ this company at times annoy me.

sky88

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Listening to ric flair on his podcast talk about the stuff that was said on raw Monday night. He's clearly angry but was trying to be diplomatic and not hurt Charlotte with wwe.

He says that triple h, Stephanie, and Michael Hayes wouldn't do anything to hurt her.

But my question is when triple h knew about what I'm assuming the creative team wanted Paige to say, that he might have thought "Jesus should I ring ric?" I mean Jesus h Christ this company at times annoy me.

That's what I thought when I heard it ric is one of hhh's best friends be suprised he would allow it be said or even ring ric. The whole thing is just weird to me

price690

sky88 wrote: »

That's what I thought when I heard it ric is one of hhh's best friends be suprised he would allow it be said or even ring ric. The whole thing is just weird to me

Paige might be in bother if she was shooting from the hip. Who knows, its unlikely but maybe they were given licence to go off script.

In an age when they claim to be PC and PG, ridiculing over a family members suicide is plain lacking in any kind of taste.

Reganio 2

Also wouldn't surprise me if he was consulted but was asked to pretend he wasn't to make it even more memorable/controversial

Jon Stark

price690 wrote: »

Paige might be in bother if she was shooting from the hip. Who knows, its unlikely but maybe they were given licence to go off script.

In an age when they claim to be PC and PG, ridiculing over a family members suicide is plain lacking in any kind of taste.

No one is dumb enough to shoot from the hip like that WWE, give her some credit.

Monokne

It would be fair to say the idea that Paige came up with the key line to start the brawl in the main event segment on Raw 'on the fly' is one of the more ridiculous ideas I've ever heard...

Interesting stuff in this weeks Observer on it:

In an attempt to put more focus on the women's division, given the timing of the UFC event and record setting crowd, the WWE scripted a pull-apart brawl with Charlotte and Paige to set up their Divas title match.

That was all well and good, but to set it up, they exploited the death of Reid Fliehr, the younger brother of Charlotte (Ashley Fliehr), who passed away at the age of 25, on March 29, 2013, of an overdose of heroin and prescription drugs on a morning he and his father were set to leave for some weekend events.

The segment was awkward even beforehand, because Charlotte, who obviously knew the direction this was going, seemed way off and on the brink of crying early in the segment, and even more when talking about how she is living her little brother's dream. Reid had always wanted to be a pro wrestler while Ashley had never shown any inclination in that direction, but due to her athletic ability, gave it a try and the company was impressed enough to offer her a deal. Ashley was signed by WWE before Reid's death, but she very much had talked about her success once she started appearing on NXT television and having good matches, was living her brother's dream.

The segment continued with Charlotte talking about how Paige was there for her as a friend when Reid passed away, climaxing with Paige insulting Reid for being weak, and the insinuation is that led to his death, which caused the brawl to start. The incident didn't get heat, and it was uncomfortable to watch, and anything but entertaining. It was actually revolting.

Worse was the back story, which is touchy because of the politics involved. Ric Flair spoke about it some on his podcast, but was very careful. It was clear he didn't like it, and spoke volumes by not saying anything, saying he would not give his opinion because he doesn't want to do anything that could hurt his daughter's career. But he did say that he didn't know about it in advance, that it was a sensitive issue to him, that he cried when he watched the segment, and also mentioned that both beforehand, and the next day, that nobody from the company had called him.

He basically said that even though his daughter is Divas champion, she's only been there a few months and can't say no when something is given to her.

From those close to the situation, we were told the script was given to her the night of the show, she did it, she was obviously uncomfortable doing it, and also that there were some scripted lines that weren't recited exactly as they were written, but that didn't affect the attempt.

Her mother, Elizabeth Fliehr, went on Twitter and complained about it. She knew nothing of it ahead of time and sent to Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon and Paul Levesque a message asking if the writers are really that lazy. Ric mentioned that Ashley's mother was furious.

What's so bad is that to make the air, this had to go through several channels, as a writer had to come up with it, the head writer had to submit it and write it, and Paul Levesque and Vince McMahon had to see it, and in the end the blame lies with Vince as he has the final say-so. It's not anything new for the company, because they did this and worse in 2006 after the death of Eddy Guerrero, and in 2013 after the death of Bill Moody (Paul Bearer).

For as sensitive as they are to any controversy, it was a real tone deaf decision because the heat wasn't on Paige, but on the company. The company also played a tape of the incident during the Smackdown tapings the next night in Knoxville, so you can't even use the excuse of them making a spur of the moment decision without reflection, because even after the controversy hit, they replayed it. If the decision was later changed, it would be edited off this week's Smackdown show, but I suspect that won't be the case.

Meltzer goes on to point out an angle involving Michael Hayes in the 80's along the same lines and mentions that Hayes was defensive of how WWE used Eddie's name to sell Wrestlemania in 2006, with the implication being that it may have been him who had this idea before Vince approved it.

IncognitoMan

They really are a sh1tty company sometimes

ricero

Is this not what the internet smarks want ? edgy and controversial storylines ? I personally thought it was in bad taste due to not getting permission of flair

gimmick

There is edgy and controversial and then there is crass and obnoxious. This storyline falls into the latter category imo.

Posts taken from the news thread and into its own thread.

Lord TSC

When I watched the angle, I'll be honest, it didn't phase me one bit. Not after the way Eddie's death was handled, and a few others. It was cheap, but whatever.

But I really dislike the fact they didn't let Flair know. That should have been one of the first port of calls when it comes to such an angle, especially considering Flair's legendary status. I presumed when it happened that the Flairs would have given their ok (even if they feel they had to in order to protect Charlotte's status). To outright ignore Flair seems really horrible.

_Ace_

I assumed Flair must have signed off on this - that's unbelievable.

sky88

Lord TSC wrote: »

When I watched the angle, I'll be honest, it didn't phase me one bit. Not after the way Eddie's death was handled, and a few others. It was cheap, but whatever.

But I really dislike the fact they didn't let Flair know. That should have been one of the first port of calls when it comes to such an angle, especially considering Flair's legendary status. I presumed when it happened that the Flairs would have given their ok (even if they feel they had to in order to protect Charlotte's status). To outright ignore Flair seems really horrible.

I think its especaly horrible considering anytime ive seen ric or charlotte talk about reid they seem to be on the verge of tears so its clear that its still hurts them so much and wwe would clearly know this.

A Primal Nut

price690 wrote: »

Paige might be in bother if she was shooting from the hip.

Definitely not!!

Jon Stark

I think there were a few hands in play here.

First being that it smacks of a last minute scramble which left it too late to consult Flair, which leads to the second.....

They perhaps made an assumption that Flair, being from the old school where everything was fair game to get over an angle, would have been fine with it.

Lastly, perhaps they just didn't have the bottle to approach Flair and assumed Ashley would consult him on it. Had she done so and Flair aired his dismay, they probably would have nixxed it without hurting her career. But perhaps she decided running to her father wasn't in her best interests, or in the interest of locker room harmony amongst the divas (not like the rest of them have a legend for a father to run to).

End of the day the angle was crass and in blatant poor taste. You don't put a divas angle at the end of Raw without massive preparation and going into painstaking detail.

Monokne

WWE will be releasing a statement shortly regarding Monday night's show-closing angle involving Paige and Charlotte (Ashley Fliehr).

The gist of the statement will be that the idea of the angle came from Ashley Fliehr, that it was taken out of the show, she was insistent that it be put in, and it was. However, the company did take responsibility for the angle since it was ultimately their decision to put it on the show.

Neither Ric Flair nor Ashley's mother Elizabeth were alerted in advance about the angle. Elizabeth was furious and posted publicly on Twitter. Ric Flair on his Woo Nation podcast noted he was very upset when watching it, and indicated that Ashley didn't have the tenure to say no to any angles or storylines presented to her. Flair's co-host Conrad has stated publicly that the rumors it was Ashley's idea were 100% false.

Above is per Meltzer.

sky88

Monokne wrote: »

WWE will be releasing a statement shortly regarding Monday night's show-closing angle involving Paige and Charlotte (Ashley Fliehr).

The gist of the statement will be that the idea of the angle came from Ashley Fliehr, that it was taken out of the show, she was insistent that it be put in, and it was. However, the company did take responsibility for the angle since it was ultimately their decision to put it on the show.

Neither Ric Flair nor Ashley's mother Elizabeth were alerted in advance about the angle. Elizabeth was furious and posted publicly on Twitter. Ric Flair on his Woo Nation podcast noted he was very upset when watching it, and indicated that Ashley didn't have the tenure to say no to any angles or storylines presented to her. Flair's co-host Conrad has stated publicly that the rumors it was Ashley's idea were 100% false.

Above is per Meltzer.

There really putting her under the bus if that statement is true

Itssoeasy

Monokne wrote: »

WWE will be releasing a statement shortly regarding Monday night's show-closing angle involving Paige and Charlotte (Ashley Fliehr).

The gist of the statement will be that the idea of the angle came from Ashley Fliehr, that it was taken out of the show, she was insistent that it be put in, and it was. However, the company did take responsibility for the angle since it was ultimately their decision to put it on the show.

Neither Ric Flair nor Ashley's mother Elizabeth were alerted in advance about the angle. Elizabeth was furious and posted publicly on Twitter. Ric Flair on his Woo Nation podcast noted he was very upset when watching it, and indicated that Ashley didn't have the tenure to say no to any angles or storylines presented to her. Flair's co-host Conrad has stated publicly that the rumors it was Ashley's idea were 100% false.

Above is per Meltzer.

If that is the jist of the statement then that's ridiculous. I still can't get over the fact that triple h of all ****ing people didn't at least ring ric and ask for his okay or not on it as they had done with Eddie and Paul bearers families before they did the angles involving those two men and mentioning their deaths on air.

Pentecost

I was never a huge fan of Charlotte but I feel really sorry for her if this is true. She was never in a position to say no.

Diabhal Beag

I like Ric but I predict he'll be very quick to forgive and forget on this which is pretty sad.

A Primal Nut

Hmm if it really was Charlotte's idea and she didn't get her parents onboard, and her parents then criticized WWE publicly for it; then Charlotte messed up big time.

I find it hard to believe especially the bit about her being insistent on it being in the show.

Monokne

Itssoeasy wrote: »

If that is the jist of the statement then that's ridiculous. I still can't get over the fact that triple h of all ****ing people didn't at least ring ric and ask for his okay or not on it as they had done with Eddie and Paul bearers families before they did the angles involving those two men and mentioning their deaths on air.

Meltzer mentioned in the Observer that Ric and Ashley speak several times a day on the phone and there may have been a prevailing belief within the company that Ashley had clued Ric in.

I am not saying this justifies it being done, or even justifies Hunter not calling Ric, but I can see them thinking "she'll tell him, we'll leave it be".

If the statement is going to include the content Meltzer reported, it is certainly going to be a tough sell. Ashley suggested it and poor Vince felt he couldn't rock the boat and turn it down? Suuuuure.

What will happen is everyone who's following the story will know there's been pressure from inside the company for Ashley to take the heat, which will only redouble the negative portrayal of the company and the decision makers from this sorry incident.

It has to be said in a simple and forthright manner - Vince McMahon is a f*cking scumbag who profits from the death of other people.
It is the single most uncomfortable part of being a WWE fan and the most unseemly part of the business. That we are still seeing this bullsh1t in 2015 is beyond belief.

They go out of their way to do all this charity work, to present a PG product, to smack you over the face that 'this is entertainment & we put smiles on peoples faces' because they think it'll remove the stigma of wrestling as 'lowbrow' entertainment, unattractive to advertisers. Then, they go and do this:

"Your little baby brother, he didn't have much fight in him, did he?"

Itssoeasy

Monokne wrote: »

Meltzer mentioned in the Observer that Ric and Ashley speak several times a day on the phone and there may have been a prevailing belief within the company that Ashley had clued Ric in.

I am not saying this justifies it being done, or even justifies Hunter not calling Ric, but I can see them thinking "she'll tell him, we'll leave it be".

If the statement is going to include the content Meltzer reported, it is certainly going to be a tough sell. Ashley suggested it and poor Vince felt he couldn't rock the boat and turn it down? Suuuuure.

What will happen is everyone who's following the story will know there's been pressure from inside the company for Ashley to take the heat, which will only redouble the negative portrayal of the company and the decision makers from this sorry incident.

It has to be said in a simple and forthright manner - Vince McMahon is a f*cking scumbag who profits from the death of other people.
It is the single most uncomfortable part of being a WWE fan and the most unseemly part of the business. That we are still seeing this bullsh1t in 2015 is beyond belief.

They go out of their way to do all this charity work, to present a PG product, to smack you over the face that 'this is entertainment & we put smiles on peoples faces' because they think it'll remove the stigma of wrestling as 'lowbrow' entertainment, unattractive to advertisers. Then, they go and do this:

"Your little baby brother, he didn't have much fight in him, did he?"

so they just assumed ? You know what can happen when you assume something ?
I doubt very much that she would have insisted to have it in the show. I mean anytime it's come up since he died both her and ric nearly burst into tears over it.

Also this is WWE and it would have had to have been okayed by a number of people up to and including Vince. I watched it Tuesday morning and just felt very uneasy hearing the line. And it seems people online are not happy with WWE.

I listened to John pollock and court Bauer on mlw today and they couldn't understand why it was even considered for last Monday.

Itssoeasy

WWE's official statement: “Subject matter this personal is only approved as a result of the strong advocacy of the talent themselves. Notwithstanding that, WWE is ultimately responsible for what airs in its programming.

So they're basically saying Charlotte asked for it to be put into the show ?

JP Liz V1

All the Fliehr family should have been contacted for their approval by Ashley if it was her idea, I assumed as Ric's daughter would be in good terms and vry close with HHH and Steph so to accept her word all was ok to run the storyline

glenjamin

Am I the only who thinks it makes no difference that they failed to consult Flair on it or not? The fact of the matter is they exploited a young man's suicide for TV ratings. That sort of thing has no place in this day and age, and was needless and disgusting. This is from a company that prides itself with being PG and that puts so much effort into an anti bullying campaign when quite clearly the likes of Vince and Co are the biggest bullies of them all. It's a shame there wasn't more backlash from this from a non wrestling point as the WWE would deserve every bit of criticism they get from this.

Scavenger XIII

She's hardly the best talker around but she seemed genuinely really uncomfortable throughout the whole segment, barely getting the words out at times.

She was clearly choking up over it before it even came up. I'd find it hard to believe she insisted on doing it, not on a level beyond "No I can do it, please don't bust me down the card."

Pentecost

The fact that the 'E are acknowledging the controversy to the point of making statements suggests they know they've crossed a line. Then again they may think all publicity is good publicity up to a point.

sky88

Pentecost wrote: »

The fact that the 'E are acknowledging the controversy to the point of making statements suggests they know they've crossed a line. Then again they may think all publicity is good publicity up to a point.

it always amazes me the double standards in WWE. Billy Gunn gets fired for using PEDs and when daniel bryan was fired too because bascally want to keep there image good to mattel and other sponsors but sure lets make an angle from a young kids overdose.

Angron

Itssoeasy

In the cartoon above its Steph, ?, old ps,?, Charlotte. Is the guy next to Charlotte meant to be Kevin Dunn ? Just a guess.

Lord TSC

Presume it's Ranjin Singh beside Steph, Khali's former manager who is a lead writer for WWE.

Scavenger XIII

Creepy guy has to be Kevin Dunn, he's touching her hair and everything. :pac:

Angron

Well the site the comic came from has the people in it tagged. Charlotte, Steph, Hayes, Kapoor (Singh), and "Creepy" Carrano, who is a director of talent relations in WWE.

Monokne

Yeah if you've ever seen Dunn and Carrano, you'd know that was Carrano for sure.

Scavenger XIII

Does he have a similar rep for creeping on the women?

A Primal Nut

Criticize the angle all you want, but everyone knows there is a Charlotte-Paige match at Survivor Series now.

Itssoeasy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Criticize the angle all you want, but everyone knows there is a Charlotte-Paige match at Survivor Series now.

Yeah but not for the right reasons though. To be honest if you're using a death on the go home raw before a ppv to build up a match, then you haven't built the storyline correctly.

gnfnrhead

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Criticize the angle all you want, but everyone knows there is a Charlotte-Paige match at Survivor Series now.

That nobody cares about. The heat isn't on Paige or even on Charlotte. It's on WWE. The feud is still as dead as ever.

Lord TSC

Also, I think the people who would have cared about a Paige/Charlotte match would have already known it was happening; I doubt there's one casual fan thinking "I wasn't going to buy this show but if Paige/Charlotte is happening..."

jaykhunter

gnfnrhead wrote: »

That nobody cares about. The heat isn't on Paige or even on Charlotte. It's on WWE. The feud is still as dead as ever.

Absolutely I'd put it in the 'Arquette getting the WCW title' pile of "yes you got some attention, about how much of an embarrassment your company is". This feud won't get any more Network subscriptions but that line and the surrounding news will live on for all the wrong reasons. That Randy Orton/Eddie line didn't help Rey Mysterio's pop winning the WHC...

Chain Smoker

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Criticize the angle all you want, but everyone knows there is a Charlotte-Paige match at Survivor Series now.

Vince Russo: "I still have no issue with David Arquette winning the belt. It made the front page of USA Today"


[Edit: sorry for repeating literally what the last post said, I left the page open for absolutely ages and never realised there were new posts]