Bad Reference

leestone

Hi Guys,

Only coming to terms with this but anyways heres my story,

Was offered a job as a fulltime merchandiser role with a leading company.
Good money plus company car etc.
Have been working in FMCG area for over a year on a part time basis with a number of companies looking for fulltime work and aim to build a career in this.
So finally offered a fulltime role and a lof of trying...very happy with myself.

New employers required two references.
Handed my notice to one of the merchandising companies I worked for.
Boss replied with a response that they would be sorry to lose me etc and even offered me more work if they were busy to help them out.

Got a call on last week from my new employer withdrawing their offer as my current employer had given me a poor reference.
Totally devastated that my boss would do this to me despite never once saying there was problem with my work and always giving me loads of work each week.
Despite when I hand my notice in boss replies back the talk of still working for them over xmas lead up etc.

So now I after losing a 25K job plus new car.
My work was always up to standard considering I never once had to be pulled up on it and I was always 100% committed .

What should i do?
Can i take legal action on this?

Canadel

Did you explain all of the above to the new company upon receiving the news that they were withdrawing the offer? Seems strange that they would simply take the word of a stranger without at least getting your side of events and checking one or two other sources. Probably not a company you want to work for tbh if that's the way they operate i.e. they do not care about their (prospective) employees.

Stheno

Did they say what was bad about the reference?

bpmurray

leestone wrote: »

Can i take legal action on this?

Why do you think multi-nationals never give references? Unless they have a really cast-iron reason for giving a bad reference, they're liable for both libelling you and for your lost earnings. And even if they have, it depends on how they have addressed it - unless they exhausted disciplinary procedure in the company, it won't be looked on kindly.

Have you considered the alternative - that this was only an excuse and your reference was actually OK?

leestone

I was in shock and stated that this makes no sense to me, and the Hr manager agreed aswell but her employers required two good references. I only had the one apparently?

Explained my side that I am more than competent in the role with my current employer and my colleagues can vouch for me also.

Have sent a well worded email to my boss demanding that they explain themselves and give me a written copy of the reference.

Its a terrible place to be but thats life

godtabh

Never hand in your notice until everything's signed sealed and delivered. Get non current references and advise them before hand. FA use to you now but one for the future.

Wanderer78

tough stations op. best of luck with it. apologies no advice

_Brian

The crux of references is what they can prove to be fact..
They can say anything once there is evidence to back up what they say.

So, they cannot give a bad reference say for bad timekeeping if its something you've never been pulled up on and a paperwork trail exists on file.

Now, if you do start asking hard questions I'm sure a trail can be easily created to cover their ass.. It wouldn't be the first time a back story was created after **** hits the fan.. Written warnings can be created and signed as delivered but "employee refused to sign" put in place of your signature, I've seen this done.

So, I think this is a done deal, I don't think you'll gain anything by perusing it.

Its a dreadfully tough lesson you've been handed but you did kinda put the cart before the horse...

Mrs OBumble

It's quite likely not even a written reference. Might be a phone call, like this:

HR "Would you hire leestone again?"

THEM <<pause for 10 seconds>> "Ahh, yesssss, for the right role"


Know your referees, OP, and know who's maybe not so much on your side as you think. Good luck with the job-hunting.

leestone

_Brian wrote: »

The crux of references is what they can prove to be fact..
They can say anything once there is evidence to back up what they say.

So, they cannot give a bad reference say for bad timekeeping if its something you've never been pulled up on and a paperwork trail exists on file.

Now, if you do start asking hard questions I'm sure a trail can be easily created to cover their ass.. It wouldn't be the first time a back story was created after **** hits the fan.. Written warnings can be created and signed as delivered but "employee refused to sign" put in place of your signature, I've seen this done.

So, I think this is a done deal, I don't think you'll gain anything by perusing it.

Its a dreadfully tough lesson you've been handed but you did kinda put the cart before the horse...

Not really....was offered the job found out today New employer is now reviewing the case as they found it hard to believe themselves....also just before I got the call didnt my current employer send me a work availability email and as I had said earlier even offered me more work over xmas lead up when I handed in my notice.

To me this seems like my boss couldnt be bothered looking for someone else and easiest way to do this was to give me a bad reference and think il stay with them

leestone

Hey guys,
many thanks for your very helpful and insightful advice.

Just a quick update...The job that I was initialled offered is now vacant again,

Secondly another company in which I have worked for on a part time basis is interviewing me this week for a full time contract role. Question is if I am successful in getting this role will they ask for references considering I already am working with them (and was told my work was good for them before).

Also if they require a reference can I put another name down instead of the person who gave me the bad reference before.?

matt-dublin

If they give you a bad reference I think you can peruse them legally.

Usually the word a company will do it send a single liner like

"We acknowledge that xxx was under our employment between Jan 2010 to step 2015"

That's about as bad as it should get otherwise they would be leaving themselves open to litigation.

You should ask for a copy of the reference.

Saipanne

I'd get legal advice.

leestone

leestone wrote: »

.........

Secondly another company in which I have worked for on a part time basis is interviewing me this week for a full time contract role. Question is if I am successful in getting this role will they ask for references considering I already am working with them (and was told my work was good for them before).

I would imagine so if they are a large outfit with a HR department, company procedure in many cases.

leestone wrote: »

.........Also if they require a reference can I put another name down instead of the person who gave me the bad reference before.?

Don't use your current employer for a reference and never use someone who gave you a bad reference before.

leestone

Well this seems to an internal recruitment and the H.R manager has said I work to a high standard.

The company who I used which gave me a bad reference I can count on a number of other senior people in it to give me a good reference instead of the person who needlessly gave me a bad reference and still offered me more work (still raging over this but hopefully tomorrow I will be getting a new role)

my3cents

OP you seem to suggest that you currently work as a merchandiser so if you have the slightest contact with a manager in any of the places you work then ask them if they will provide you with a reference or can be contacted for a referecene even if they don't know you I'd still ask. That way you should be able to provide a sh1t load of references and be able to cherry pick the good ones, no harm in name dropping if you can mention well know stores.

davo10

matt-dublin wrote: »

If they give you a bad reference I think you can peruse them legally.


You should ask for a copy of the reference.

This is incorrect as the truth is always a defence. An employer can give a bad reference but it must be truthful, they cannot be vindictive.

davo10

my3cents wrote: »

OP you seem to suggest that you currently work as a merchandiser so if you have the slightest contact with a manager in any of the places you work then ask them if they will provide you with a reference or can be contacted for a referecene even if they don't know you I'd still ask. That way you should be able to provide a sh1t load of references and be able to cherry pick the good ones, no harm in name dropping if you can mention well know stores.

None of which will be accepted as they cannot provide an insight into the ops ability to do his job not what type of employee he is.

leestone

davo10 wrote: »

This is incorrect as the truth is always a defence. An employer can give a bad reference but it must be truthful, they cannot be vindictive.

Problem here in my case is 1. Never had/ or was made aware problem with my work
2. Given more responsibility than colleagues on jobs.
3. Trained new people on job.
4. When handing my notice in manager commends me on my service and offers me the option of more work over the xmas period.

Fully convinced manager did this as couldnt be bothered to find replacement for me, what proves this for me was when I stated my finish date I received an email asking was I available to work for the next few weeks.

my3cents

davo10 wrote: »

None of which will be accepted as they cannot provide an insight into the ops ability to do his job not what type of employee he is.

They know more about the OP doing their job than their actual employer does because they see the end results.

davo10

my3cents wrote: »

They know more about the OP doing their job than their actual employer does because they see the end results.

Nonsense, they see the op for a few minutes on occasions, they don't know anything about attendance, reliability, attitude, ability to work in a team, attitude to authority etc. Salesmen are always charming to clients. If you provide multiple references from clients and omit employers, the first question you will be asked is why there are no employer references.

davo10

leestone wrote: »

Problem here in my case is 1. Never had/ or was made aware problem with my work
2. Given more responsibility than colleagues on jobs.
3. Trained new people on job.
4. When handing my notice in manager commends me on my service and offers me the option of more work over the xmas period.

Fully convinced manager did this as couldnt be bothered to find replacement for me, what proves this for me was when I stated my finish date I received an email asking was I available to work for the next few weeks.

Sorry op, my post was not specific to your case, it sounds like your previous employer scuppered your new job. My post related to the statement that a bad reference is prohibited by law, it is not, but it must be truthful.

_Brian

davo10 wrote: »

Sorry op, my post was not specific to your case, it sounds like your previous employer scuppered your new job. My post related to the statement that a bad reference is prohibited by law, it is not, but it must be truthful.

The whole "they can't give a bad reference", I'm continually shocked people think this rubbish is true.
They can give any reference they wish, however if challenged they need to be capable of providing evidence to back up what they have said.

So, if I say billybob has tardiness issues and this prevents him getting a job. billybob get a solicitor on the job and legal issues follow. I need to be able to provide time sheets or disciplinary warnings as evidence this was a problem. It's not good enough to say it was my opinion, it needs to be fact backed by actual evidence.

Once the content of a reference can be backed by evidence then there is no issue saying anything factual.

my3cents

davo10 wrote: »

Nonsense, they see the op for a few minutes on occasions, they don't know anything about attendance, reliability, attitude, ability to work in a team, attitude to authority etc. Salesmen are always charming to clients. If you provide multiple references from clients and omit employers, the first question you will be asked is why there are no employer references.

I wasn't talking about salesman but it makes my point, if you are a salesman then you provide information to sell your product which in this case is yourself. I doubt that point would be lost on a employer looking for a good salesman.

Baron Kurtz

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's quite likely not even a written reference. Might be a phone call, like this:

HR "Would you hire leestone again?"

THEM <<pause for 10 seconds>> "Ahh, yesssss, for the right role"


Know your referees, OP, and know who's maybe not so much on your side as you think. Good luck with the job-hunting.

This was probably the likely scenario. As far as I'm aware one can't give a bad reference, or can this in fact be confirmed (as I've just read some differing opinions on this)

davo10

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

This was probably the likely scenario. As far as I'm aware one can't give a bad reference, or can this in fact be confirmed (as I've just read some differing opinions on this)

You can give any reference you like, good or bad, as long as it is truthful.

my3cents

davo10 wrote: »

You can give any reference you like, good or bad, as long as it is truthful.

But an ex-employer would be sensible if they were risk adverse and gave a good reference come what may. Why give a bad reference when there is the potential to end up in an expensive legal case with someone who probably can't afford to pay your expenses if you win.

davo10

my3cents wrote: »

But an ex-employer would be sensible if they were risk adverse and gave a good reference come what may. Why give a bad reference when there is the potential to end up in an expensive legal case with someone who probably can't afford to pay your expenses if you win.

You can argue about the merits of giving either a good or a bad reference, default now just seems to be to confirm start and end dates. But if an employee is deserving of a bad reference and an employer in good conscience cannot bring themselves to give a good one not even a two liner, then they can give as bad a reference as they want as long as it is truthful and they can stand over it. There is absolutely nothing illegal about that.

Let's be fair, in a lot of cases the reference is provided via telephone so the legal mumbo jumbo is moot.

FishOnABike

I'd consider getting legal advice if I were you. Your ex-employer may have shot themselves in the foot by offering you work after they had given a bad reference to your prospective new employer. The question is whether any potential gain (or loss) in going down the legal route is worth the effort depending on the chances of succeeding (or failing) in any legal action and even if you did win would you be able to get whatever award was made against the other side.

my3cents

FishOnABike wrote: »

I'd consider getting legal advice if I were you. Your ex-employer may have shot themselves in the foot by offering you work after they had given a bad reference to your prospective new employer. The question is whether any potential gain (or loss) in going down the legal route is worth the effort depending on the chances of succeeding (or failing) in any legal action and even if you did win would you be able to get whatever award was made against the other side.

Plus you have to add how any legal case may effect your future employability?

If its known you have taken one employer to court others may prefer not to take the risk that you do the same to them no matter how good your case may have been.

leestone

Thanks you all again for your helpful advice.

Boards really is a great place to get some questions answered.

allibastor

You can give a bad reference, but most will do so verbally.

I have done a good lot of reference checks in my time. If a manager sends me a written reference with a phone number on it, I will call this.

I have had mangers who have over the phone given bad references on people but it has all to be kept in confidence. I never make someone a job offer either without checking this out also, as making a job offer and then returning it can land you in bother also.

As for the reference itself, yes, you can seek damages for a bad reference, and it sounds like you have proof that your work was good in your current role.

Not sure if it is too late now, but I would always in a case like this as to submit my last few redacted emails to the new job, it shows you are decent at what you do.

To be fair though, the new roles HR should have called you back and asked what it was about before just striking you off.