Driver protocol for checking for boarding passengers?

ongarboy

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/exclusive-train-doors-close-on-shocked-mother-leaving-young-children-standing-alone-on-platform-34212754.html

I wonder what happened here. Is the driver supposed to make sure there are no remaining passengers waiting to board before closing doors. How can this be achieved on very busy platforms when crowds may be waiting for various services and it's not obvious if someone is just standing in front of the yellow line but not intending to board.

Finally, I think if I had young children, I would like to think I'd make sure they boarded before me.

Losty Dublin

The driver checks that all doors are clear before closing the doors, releasing the brake and moving off. If there is staff on the platform they will signal when the doors are clear, this giving the driver the go ahead to move off. Some stations are located at curves which can make things harder to observe but many stations have mirrors and CCTV cameras on the platforms to help the drivers ensure safe boarding by passengers. A wet or dark day and it doesn't help matters either.

Based on what the article says and what normal practice is, the woman seems to have boarded the train first ahead of her kids before it moved off. If a driver looks out and sees people standing at the platform doing nothing then you can't blame him if they assume they aren't getting on. Lets bear in mind that this time of day in Maynooth is a busy time for trains and people waiting around can easily be taking another departure. Perhaps she was dawdling or taking her time, we don't know but there is usually enough time for people to get on and off without a panic.

Mycro

This must have been an awful experience for the mother but it was probably better that she got on first as she did. If she was getting on last and the doors closed, the driver might not have been able to see her shouting at him before he moved on. At least by being on the train, she was able to pull the cord (is there still a cord!?).

This must be a tough situation for the driver too and difficult to see if there were others waiting to board. There were probably others waiting on the platform for the next train. The train in question is non-stop to Connolly and followed a few minutes later by an all-stops commuter train.

seamus

Mycro wrote: »

This must have been an awful experience for the mother but it was probably better that she got on first as she did. If she was getting on last and the doors closed, the driver might not have been able to see her shouting at him before he moved on.

I guess it depends - if the children get on first and the train pulls away, it's pretty straightforward for her to alert staff on the platform who can radio up to the driver. Then you can have staff look after the kids at their destination (while they wait for the mother), or have the driver come back to the station.

Whereas the other way around nobody is going to know that the kids are alone on the platform, and they might do something stupid like chase after the train.

Aside from how the staff missed it, the mother will know better now than to assume her kids are following behind her when she gets onto the train and instead will march them on in front of her.

magicbastarder

seamus wrote: »

it's pretty straightforward for her to alert staff on the platform

not all platforms are manned, though?

the_syco

So the mother got on first, heard the loud beeping before the doors closed, and didn't check for her kids? I'm guessing that she arrived late, jumped onto the train as the doors were closing, and the kids didn't make it.

Cynical thought; wonder will she sue? If she does, I'll call shenanigans.

Losty Dublin

Mycro wrote: »

This must have been an awful experience for the mother but it was probably better that she got on first as she did. If she was getting on last and the doors closed, the driver might not have been able to see her shouting at him before he moved on. At least by being on the train, she was able to pull the cord (is there still a cord!?).

Had she put the kids on first then she would not have been left behind unless they were dawdling or obviously not trying to get on, this is the thing. Should they close the doors and a passenger is trying to board then the doors won't close and the driver won't move away; it's as simple as that.

Still, yeah it was definitely a horrible experience for all concerned.

the_syco

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Should they close the doors and a passenger is trying to board then the doors won't close and the driver won't move away; it's as simple as that.

IIRC, doors can be reopened from the inside for a short period of time after the doors close.

Losty Dublin

the_syco wrote: »

IIRC, doors can be reopened from the inside for a short period of time after the doors close.

It's for about a second or two AFAIK. If something stops a door from engaging the doors should stop closing and reverse to prevent trapping people.

gti16v

I was on that train this morning and I have to say Irish Rail handled it brilliantly. They don't seem to be slapping her with a fine for pulling the emergency cord. It's not a "I'm stupid cord". Who in their right mind would leave their kids on the platform and get on the train themselves, what if the kids decided to follow her and slipped between the train and the platform she should have been holding their hands, end of. Irish Rail not only looked after her kids which she failed to do but they put the train in reverse and reversed it back to Maynooth. As we all know one late train has a knock on effect in Connolly and they haven't said anything about how it affected them yet the media are making them out to be in the wrong.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they are brilliant every train I've taken this week has been late but I can't understand why people are saying that Irish Rail should have realised that the kids didn't get on. That particular train is one of the most popular times for Maynooth commuters and the platform always has loads of people around after it leaves how could they possibly know that the kids mother got on and the kids didn't. Irish Rail have cctv for safety to ensure nobody gets caught in the doors or falls etc not for babysitting. I'm assuming the comments in the Indo are not the comments of the mother.

Hats off to the train driver and how he handled the situation this morning. He was put in this situation by the mother and will no doubt face a load of questioning by Irish Rail. As soon as he was in a position to do so he informed us of what was happening and he had the support of everyone that I could hear talking about it including me.

If she didn't have time to get the kids and all the stuff that goes with them on the train she could have taken the next one 9 minutes later which was sitting at platform 2.

foggy_lad

It is very possible that the mother/guardian of the children had bags or a folded buggy to load onto the train and then went to get the children and put them safely onto the train. this would have been on a 22000 so there is no real space inside the doors where she could have put the children on board and then got herself and any bags/buggy onto the train. It is not very fair to call this woman stupid or to say that she is at fault in this.

Diamond Doll

I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, but I think it was a bit harsh of the driver to announce to everyone on the train what had happened. Imagine being that poor mother for the rest of the journey into town, once she'd picked up the kids ... daggers from everyone, for being the worst mum ever, and holding them all up, on top of it!

markpb

gti16v wrote:

I was on that train this morning and I have to say Irish Rail handled it brilliantly. They don't seem to be slapping her with a fine for pulling the emergency cord. It's not a "I'm stupid cord".

There's nothing in your post to suggest Irish Rail handled it brilliantly, they were just competent. Train stopped as required. Driver returned to platform as required. Driver informed passengers of the delay as required (but to his credit, he's one of the few that actually does it).

You've no idea what caused the situation or how Irish Rail are dealing with the woman now. Do you think the driver would announce over the intercom that they'd issued her a fine? Do you really think they would or should fine her?

You're very quick to judge without any of the facts. I'm glad you think Irish Rail are brilliant though, they need all the fans they can get.

gti16v

As I said I don't think they are brilliant they are unreliable to say the least. I said they handled it brilliantly:
They reversed back to Maynooth
Took care of the kids
Backed up the train that was waiting to leave from platform 2
Informed passenger why we were going backwards
Dealt with the consequences of delays along the entire route, in particular at Connolly.

I don't they should fine her I think she's had enough stress for one day but if she had of taken the train on platform 2 which sits there for 20 mins prior to departure she could have gotten on and off as much as she wanted and left 9 mins later.

I just can't understand how she put herself in that situation when there was an alternative easier less stressful option. One thing I can be sure of is that I would not have my child standing anywhere near a train without holding onto them. As I said what would happen if they decided to follow and fell between the train and platform even the thoughts of it sends a shiver down my spine.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is very possible that the mother/guardian of the children had bags or a folded buggy to load onto the train and then went to get the children and put them safely onto the train. this would have been on a 22000 so there is no real space inside the doors where she could have put the children on board and then got herself and any bags/buggy onto the train. It is not very fair to call this woman stupid or to say that she is at fault in this.

Who is to blame then? The kids could have been waiting in one of the shelters out of sight of the driver. Sometimes it's not Irish Rail's fault even though you find that difficult to believe. If you're delayed getting your stuff onto the train you stand half in and half out of the train leading your children onto the train so that you are clearly visible to the driver.

Mrs OBumble

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is very possible that the mother/guardian of the children had bags or a folded buggy to load onto the train and then went to get the children and put them safely onto the train.

The children are 5 and 7: Unless they're disabled, then that's well old enough to be well able to get into the train ahead of the mother if told to do so and not need to be "put" anywhere.

And if they were disabled, then I'm sure the newspaper headline would have been 50% larger still!

GerardKeating

Diamond Doll wrote: »

I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, but I think it was a bit harsh of the driver to announce to everyone on the train what had happened. Imagine being that poor mother for the rest of the journey into town, once she'd picked up the kids ... daggers from everyone, for being the worst mum ever, and holding them all up, on top of it!

I think people would rather know there was a good reason for the delay, rather than the usual silence about issues.

And once the other passengers saw her reunited with her kids they would know what happened anyway, so the driver did not give away much.

Carawaystick

GerardKeating wrote: »

And once the other passengers saw her reunited with her kids they would know what happened anyway, so the driver did not give away much.

Those passengers in the same carriage might, those on others wouldn't have a clue.