DRL Dangers

gibo_ie

Hi all,
More and more recently I am seeing major problems with all newer cars having DRLs. Specifically that they are front only and seemingly once the dash board is lit up in front of the driver that some seem oblivious that no matter how dark, how heavy the rain or fog is that they dont need to switch on lights as it looks to them internally that they already have.
Anyone see this other than me? Came on motorway from Cork to Dublin yesterday during Barney and there were loads of them. Seriously dangerous.
Should the manufacturers not simply enable both front and rear DRLs at the same time. I cant see a reason why this shouldnt be the case???
thanks,

CiniO

gibo_ie wrote: »

Hi all,
More and more recently I am seeing major problems with all newer cars having DRLs. Specifically that they are front only and seemingly once the dash board is lit up in front of the driver that some seem oblivious that no matter how dark, how heavy the rain or fog is that they dont need to switch on lights as it looks to them internally that they already have.

Indeed, but that's not danger originating from DRL's but from idiots who fail to turn normal dipped light when conditions warrant it.

Should the manufacturers not simply enable both front and rear DRLs at the same time.

No

I cant see a reason why this shouldnt be the case???
thanks,

Because there is no point in rear lights during good visibility at daytime.
And that's the only conditions when DRL's should be used.
When it's raining, or fog, or gets darker, everyone should turn on normal dipped lights.
And that's what should be enforced. Not changing design of vehicels.

Atlantic Dawn

There's no talking to some people, they think fog light and engine management icons lit on the dash are there for decoration.

gibo_ie

True, DRL should never have to had been implemented but it was because most drivers dont get safety or understanding of lights.
For the same reason I believe rear lights should be DRL also on all new cars.

CiniO

gibo_ie wrote: »

True, DRL should never have to had been implemented but it was because most drivers dont get safety or understanding of lights.
For the same reason I believe rear lights should be DRL also on all new cars.

If you wanted to legislate for people idiocy, you'd want all cars to have dipped lights together with rear tail lights turn on automatically at all times.

DRLs are there for completely different purpose - to make vehicles approching better visible at daytime during good visibility.

biko

Automated dipped DRLs should be the standard, not some uggo LED strips on the front.
I suppose you could have a setting that after 5pm or sumsuch the car will turn on lights automatically in case the driver doesn't.

gibo_ie

biko wrote: »

Automated dipped DRLs should be the standard, not some uggo LED strips on the front.
I suppose you could have a setting that after 5pm or sumsuch the car will turn on lights automatically in case the driver doesn't.

This is a good idea aso, there are plenty of cars which have automatic lights coming on sensing darkness. My own i just leave dipped on permanently and they turn off with the key out which means i dont even have to worry about it. Always on dipped! Like Volvo figured out years ago, its the safest way to drive.

CiniO

gibo_ie wrote: »

This is a good idea aso, there are plenty of cars which have automatic lights coming on sensing darkness.

Problem with them, is while they sense darkness and turn on the lights, they usually don't sense rain, and never sense a fog.
And full dipped lights are needed in rain and fog, same as in darkness.

joujoujou

CiniO wrote: »

[...] there is no point in rear lights during good visibility at daytime.
And that's the only conditions when DRL's should be used.
When it's raining, or fog, or gets darker, everyone should turn on normal dipped lights.
And that's what should be enforced. Not changing design of vehicels.

The problem is (and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that too) that redesigning vehicles would be far more easy than changing average Joe habits.

CiniO

joujoujou wrote: »

The problem is (and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that too) that redesigning vehicles would be far more easy than changing average Joe habits.

But how would you see them redesigned?
To turn on rear tail lights together with front DRLs?

gibo_ie

CiniO wrote: »

But how would you see them redesigned?
To turn on rear tail lights together with front DRLs?

Quite simply, yes!
I agree that it shouldn't be required but it really is. If we can make driving safer, simply by automating this simple safety feature then why not!

CiniO

gibo_ie wrote: »

Quite simply, yes!
I agree that it shouldn't be required but it really is. If we can make driving safer, simply by automating this simple safety feature then why not!

It still doesn't really solve the whole problem.
It only solve the problem of lack of rear lights.

But people would still drive only on DRLs in rain and fog during daytime, which are not suitable for it.
Also they would probably be even pushed further to drive on DRLs at night, considering they'd have rear tail lights with them.

*Kol*

CiniO wrote: »

It still doesn't really solve the whole problem.
It only solve the problem of lack of rear lights.

But people would still drive only on DRLs in rain and fog during daytime, which are not suitable for it.
Also they would probably be even pushed further to drive on DRLs at night, considering they'd have rear tail lights with them.

A very good point. We do not need people driving around in the dark on DRLs. Auto lights obviously will help in the nighttime. I notice my lights do come on in overcast conditions during the day or heavy rain. Not sure about fog though.

PukkaStukka

The problem is when the dash lights inside the car along with the DRL's. If the dash remained unlit and it became dark, it would encourage the Joe to at least switch the side lights on.

colm_mcm

Didn't we have this thread last week

MuppetCheck

colm_mcm wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread last week

Merge them so.

Oh wait...:p

sunnysoutheast

Isn't the solution to have the dashboard lights unilluminated whenever only the DRLs are on? At least that way the dopes may realise they have no lights on in the dark when they can't read their instruments.

colm_mcm

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Merge them so.

Oh wait...:p

I already tried to....
Superpowers aren't what they used to be

Anyway, original thread is here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057520003

Leonard Hofstadter

I think the other part of the problem is that the instrument binnacles in almost all modern cars are much clearer and easier to read than in older cars. They're also constantly backlit, whereas in older cars the instrument binnacle would only light up when you turned on the headlights. When it's not that dark it can give some people the impression that the car's lights are already 'switched on' because the dash is so well lit, even when the outside lights aren't on. Happened me once, needless to say after being flashed once for driving a car without the lights on (when it was dark enough that they should have been on) I've never done it again.

CiniO

In short - Poland had quite the same problem in the 80 and early 90's.
Lots of people driving without lights when conditions required them.
Introduction of law requiring everyone to use dipped lights at all times, together with adequate policing and fines issed to people who didn't comply, solved the problem nearly instantly.
Since then, there was no wondering if pi$$ing rain, fog or darkness warrants only side lights, or dipped lights or fog lights or nothng. Just always use dipped lights - simple as.

All worked well until 2012, and since lots of cars started coming with front DRL, it has become legal to use front DRLs only instead of dipped lights.
Some problems came back, as again there are people who started driving with DRLs during rain, fog or darkness, but adequate policing on the roads, keep this problem to minimum.

cerastes

Came across this twice recently, both gardai cars of the Hyundai estate type.
One at least I'm sure was a traffic corps vehicle, I could tell they had front lights on, talk about morons.I wanted to flash one of them as I was turning off but I doubt they'd have gotten it and they may have turned around and got all thick about it.

Of all the people I came across not using lights recently, two were not gardai cars coming towards me, this issue represented 50% of the idiocy of not using lights correctly I came across.

visual

For years and years when you turned on lights the dial display lights up. For a lot of cars it was the only indication you lights where on. Apart from seeing reflection of lights of other objects or on unlight roads.

The cars that light the display with or without lights on make it much more difficult more so if they have DRL lights because drive see reflection from road and other obstacles and mistakes it for dip beam lights on.

While driver is expected to notice little green indicator on display it's not that obvious it's not illuminated.

I don't know why manufactures just didn't program it so dims come on all the time rather than having separate DRLs it would solve all this issue (the law even could have said dims on all the time rather than DRLs).

The first thing I do when I get into the car is turn on the dims anyway day or night would be handy if they just came on by themselves

bazz26

Mariah Low Slump wrote: »

I don't know why manufactures just didn't program it so dims come on all the time rather than having separate DRLs it would solve all this issue (the law even could have said dims on all the time rather than DRLs).

The first thing I do when I get into the car is turn on the dims anyway day or night would be handy if they just came on by themselves

LED lighting is more visible during daytime than standard halogen bulbs especially in strong sunlight. Also LED uses less energy and tends to last longer than halogen.

colm_mcm

I don't think LEDs are are a requirement though. Not all manufacturers use them for DRLs
They're def better though.

GTE

Where I agree that something should be done to ensure people don't rely on DRLs when they should be using dipped, I do not like the idea of auto lights as being the solution as all it does is accept peoples ignorance about driving and cover it up.

I'd much rather people are educated and cop on to what they are doing wrong.

The reality however, auto lights may just become the default answer.

GTE

Mariah Low Slump wrote: »

I don't know why manufactures just didn't program it so dims come on all the time rather than having separate DRLs it would solve all this issue (the law even could have said dims on all the time rather than DRLs).

The first thing I do when I get into the car is turn on the dims anyway day or night would be handy if they just came on by themselves

DRLS have been around much longer than the LED ones popular now.

Different countries have different laws. For example, due to USA DRL law, my Mark 4 Golf light switch has a dedicated DRL output which would be connected to lights if the car was USA bound.

The point about why bother use DRLs is not a good one. The separate LED DRL is around because good LEDS are much better at cutting through diffuse light. They are low energy and long lasting.

TheBigGreen

Two I saw yesterday evening just after 5pm!

bbk

bbk wrote: »

The point about why bother use DRLs is not a good one. The separate LED DRL is around because good LEDS are much better at cutting through diffuse light. They are low energy and long lasting.

I see the point there alright as LEDs are much better, manufacturers should be moving over to LED light for all light though anyway. You could have the DRLs and dims come on together in the case of a car with LED DRLs and halogen main lights as a work around also I suppose.

My parents new car has LEDs on all the lights not just the DRLs and the lighting is so sharp on it compared to normal halogen lights should really be rolled out on all new cars. They look way better too.

GTE

Mariah Low Slump wrote: »

I see the point there alright as LEDs are much better, manufacturers should be moving over to LED light for all light though anyway. You could have the DRLs and dims come on together in the case of a car with LED DRLs and halogen main lights as a work around also I suppose.

My parents new car has LEDs on all the lights not just the DRLs and the lighting is so sharp on it compared to normal halogen lights should really be rolled out on all new cars. They look way better too.

All LED lighting is a fairly new concept as tech develops and will in time be rolled out in most places.

That work around doesn't make sense as all it is doing is wasting energy, doubling up lighting with a halogen beam which isn't as effective as a good DRL. Auto lights make more sense but again, this is just a cover up for ignorance which wont teach anyone anything.

ofcork

You can barely see the car in the second pic there,all too often occurence now just lack of common sense imo.Id say all lights will be led soon the current s class is 100% led.

bazz26

ofcork wrote: »

You can barely see the car in the second pic there,all too often occurence now just lack of common sense imo.Id say all lights will be led soon the current s class is 100% led.

My car is nearly 5 years old and all but the dipped and high beams are LED.

testicle

PukkaStukka wrote: »

The problem is when the dash lights inside the car along with the DRL's. If the dash remained unlit and it became dark, it would encourage the Joe to at least switch the side lights on.

I don't know about anyone else but my dash remains unlit when the DRLs are on - Honda.

Truckermal

colm_mcm wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread last week

FYI DRL threads are the new foglight thread..:D

I tried to alert a driver to this the other morning and they just brake tested me which is quite scary when your grossing 46 tonnes. .

colm_mcm

Cut down on the mince pies!


To be fair, most people would be very scared of a truck flashing the lights

Truckermal

colm_mcm wrote: »

Cut down on the mince pies!




To be fair, most people would be very scared of a truck flashing the lights

I suppose I frightened you the last time all rite. ..:D:D

Mince pies!!!:eek:

SBPhoto

testicle wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but my dash remains unlit when the DRLs are on - Honda.

Same here AUDI A3

Stealthirl

cerastes wrote: »

Came across this twice recently, both gardai cars of the Hyundai estate type.
One at least I'm sure was a traffic corps vehicle, I could tell they had front lights on, talk about morons.

I have noticed alot of Garda cars with full front lights but no rears :eek:

testicle wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but my dash remains unlit when the DRLs are on - Honda.

Same here in my experance, dash only lights up if i select side lights which in turn dim the DRLs

In any car iv been in with auto lights the dip's come on when it rains as the auto wipers switch on aswell.

Cee-Jay-Cee

CiniO wrote: »

If you wanted to legislate for people idiocy, you'd want all cars to have dipped lights together with rear tail lights turn on automatically at all times.

DRLs are there for completely different purpose - to make vehicles approching better visible at daytime during good visibility.

I too believe this is the only way to compensate for idiot drivers, which this country has in abundance. I honestly believe drivers should receive fines on the spot for driving in fog or poor light with no lights on.

I also think manufacturers need to get rid of parking lights which are the most ridiculous things ever. They serve absolutely no purpose and only cause idiots to believe they have their lights on. No one uses them for the intended purpose, EVER, so why are they still an option?
They should simply have them come on with the main lights so light stalks/switches should only have two settings, on and off and nothing else.

slimjimmc

Parking lights have a very good function. They show up the car when stationary and are often far more preferable than leaving dipped headlights on which can sometimes be dazzling and confusing to oncoming traffic. The problem lies with the driver not the lights.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

Parking lights have a very good function. They show up the car when stationary

Parking lights are crucial, and we can not abandon installing them, just because some people fail to know how to use them.

and are often far more preferable than leaving dipped headlights on which can sometimes be dazzling and confusing to oncoming traffic.

More preferable of course. But not only that.
It's actually illegal to leave dipped lights on while parked.

The problem lies with the driver not the lights.

Problem with drivers and lights lies with complete lack of enforcement.
I don't think anyone ever got fined in Irlenad for lack or inapropriate usage of lights.
I don't think there are ever prescribed fines for that.
There definitely should be.
If people started getting fines and points for driving without lights at night or rain or fog, or with foglights not in the fog, or other silly setups, they would quickly learn. That's the only way.

ofcork

slimjimmc wrote: »

Parking lights have a very good function. They show up the car when stationary and are often far more preferable than leaving dipped headlights on which can sometimes be dazzling and confusing to oncoming traffic. The problem lies with the driver not the lights.

x1000!!!!

colm_mcm

There will always be a few idiots out there. Given that all that would be required to activate rear DRLs in future new cars is a tiny software change, the benefits far outweigh the costs here.
Whoever in the EU decided that front-only DRLs were a good idea obviously didn't really do a good job.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

There will always be a few idiots out there. Given that all that would be required to activate rear DRLs in future new cars is a tiny software change, the benefits far outweigh the costs here.
Whoever in the EU decided that front-only DRLs were a good idea obviously didn't really do a good job.

Look at the logic scheme.

a) does front lights at daytime in good visibility improve safety - yes.
b) does rear lights at daytime in good visiblity improve safety - no.
c) should we try to improve safety at daytime in good visibility - yes.
d) result - we should have front DRL on cars obligatory (because of a) and no rear ones (because of b).

Is there any point above, which you don't agree with?

Anything outside that logic scheme is pointless, as it doesn't result from lack of rear lights together with DRL, but from lack of usage of proper lights in Ireland by drivers due to lack of knowledge/lack of enforcement.

Consider that EU wide law, can not be based on just Ireland which has problem with drivers due to lack of education/enforcement.

The fact is, that usage of rear tail lights at daytime in good visibility is absolutely pointless. I'm sure you agree with that.

colm_mcm

I don't disagree with any of the points you cherrypicked, but there are also many other facts that you omitted.

It's not a specifically Irish problem by the way.

Pinch Flat

I was driving to Galway on the m6 the week before last - really awful day with heavy showers and loads of road spray.

The amount of idiots tootling along with drl on, oblivious they were competely invisible from behind, was unbelievable.

Stealthirl

Dont Scandinavian countries require front and rear illumination ?
I remember reading on VAG cars VCDS could swith between the two settings

colm_mcm

yes that's true.

CiniO

Stealthirl wrote: »

Dont Scandinavian countries require front and rear illumination ?

In Sweden they used to, but since 2011 front DRLs are enough at daytime in good visibility conditions.

joujoujou

Stealthirl wrote: »

[...] on VAG cars VCDS could swith between the two settings

Even more than two.

- normal settings,
- american mode,
- scandinavian mode,
- both simultaneously.

Having the last one ON gives front and rear lit up right after handbrake release (light switch is off), dash is not lit up at all. Flicking the light switch ON gives normal dipped lights + tail lights + all interior stuff lit up as normal.

*Kol*

Sadly at this moment in Limerick it's dark enough to bring on the auto lights! I am going out to hunt for DRL abusers!!