"Virtual" points taken off UK license

Gwynston

I got done for 2 points three years ago, but have a UK license, so got the fine and a letter saying something like, "2 points will be stored against the record for your license and will be applied to an Irish license if you obtain one".

To my suprise, I got a letter this month saying the 2 points have now been removed from my record since three years have passed!

The unfortunate thing is that their system is not completely trustworthy...
It so happens that earlier this year, I got done for another 2 points and received a similar fine and letter. But the closing line said something like, "There are now a total of 2 points recorded against your record". So I had wondered what had happened to the older 2 points.

Anyway, comparing all the letters it seems as if they have 2 records against my name. It looks like they've got two separate entries for me with slightly different spellings. One includes my middle name while the other doesn't, and they each have slightly different spellings in my address (one letter different in an Anglicized spelling of an Irish name).

So I had 2 points for a while against two different records for me. And only one set has now been reduced to zero...

CiniO

Confusion comes from the fact, that system was changed about 2 years ago.

They used to create ghost licence in Ireland for foreign licence holders, and apply points to this ghost licence. Points were not active, and never expiring, and would get activated if you ever changed your licence to Irish.
That must have been the case with your first 2 points from 3 years ago.
As system changed, they probably expired now. (even though they didn't used to expire).

Now - new system is just that you get regular points as everyone else, no matter if you hold foreign or Irish licence.
So this is your newer 2 points. They were awarded against your record in Ireland, are are active from the beginning.
You have to declare them to your insurer (if you hold policy in Ireland) and if you gather 12 of them, you will be disqualified from driving in Ireland.
They will expire normally after 3 years from the moment they were awarded.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

You have to declare them to your insurer (if you hold policy in Ireland)

I don't know about that, if you are asked "do you have any points on your licence" the answer is no there are no points on the licence. I would certainly be in no rush to declare points on my UK licence, avoiding points is why I got it in the first place.

vintagevrs

CiniO wrote: »

Now - new system is just that you get regular points as everyone else, no matter if you hold foreign or Irish licence.
So this is your newer 2 points. They were awarded against your record in Ireland, are are active from the beginning.
You have to declare them to your insurer (if you hold policy in Ireland) and if you gather 12 of them, you will be disqualified from driving in Ireland.
They will expire normally after 3 years from the moment they were awarded.

I'm not sure that is accurate. How can they apply points to a foreign license? Where do these get stored?

How new is this?

jimgoose

vintagevrs wrote: »

I'm not sure that is accurate. How can they apply points to a foreign license? Where do these get stored?

How new is this?

If you are convicted of a pointable offence in Ireland while holding a foreign license only, the RSA/NDLS will open a driver record for you if you don't already have one. The points will be annotated here, as well as details of your driving license, PPS number where extant, etc. On reaching the requisite number of points you are considered a banned driver. On acquiring an actual Irish learner permit or license, any points outstanding on your record are precisely that, and "carried" by your new license.

CiniO

vintagevrs wrote: »

I'm not sure that is accurate. How can they apply points to a foreign license? Where do these get stored?

In the penalty points database in Ireland, same way as the points stored for Irish licence holders.
In short - penalty points are not really applied to the licence, but to the person.

How new is this?

I think it was changed just over a year ago.


Have a look here:

Do penalty points apply to all Irish driving licences?
Yes. Penalty points apply to both learner permits and full Irish driving licences. Penalty points also apply to drivers with foreign driving licences driving in Ireland. If someone is driving in Ireland on a foreign licence, a record is created for the purpose of recording penalty points. Where the driver accumulates 12 penalty points in a 3-year period they are disqualified from driving in Ireland.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/penalty_points_for_driving_offences.html

hi5

Same here...http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96402734

The way I see it, if the letter says points will be added when and only when you change to an Irish licence then don't declare them to your insurance company, otherwise if you never change your licence then you will be penalised for penalty points for the rest of your life.

jimgoose

hi5 wrote: »

Same here...http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96402734

The way I see it, if the letter says points will be added when and only when you change to an Irish licence then don't declare them to your insurance company, otherwise if you never change your licence then you will be penalised for penalty points for the rest of your life.

Note well this bit: "2 penalty points have been endorsed on the entry in the license record relating to you".

I believe insurance companies nowadays have a "hotline to Cheeses" in the form of a hook-up to the NDLS driver database, rendering that strategy fraught with danger.

CiniO

hi5 wrote: »

Same here...http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96402734

The way I see it, if the letter says points will be added when and only when you change to an Irish licence then don't declare them to your insurance company, otherwise if you never change your licence then you will be penalised for penalty points for the rest of your life.

No, you should't declare the points awared under old system of ghost license which were never activated and never expiring.

But currently penalty points for foreign licence holders are issued in normal way the same as for anyone else with Irish licence, and those need to be declared to insurers.

vintagevrs

I agree with hi5 though, the foreign license is still "clean" and I don't think virtual points on a non existent irish license need to be declared.

CiniO

vintagevrs wrote: »

I agree with hi5 though, the foreign license is still "clean" and I don't think virtual points on a non existent irish license need to be declared.

The problem is - they are no longer virtual.
They are normal penalty points.

jimgoose

vintagevrs wrote: »

I agree with hi5 though, the foreign license is still "clean" and I don't think virtual points on a non existent irish license need to be declared.

The foreign license is indeed "clean", as is the Irish license that doesn't exist. The point is you, as a driver in this jurisdiction, are not.

vintagevrs

I just called the fixed charge processing office on 1890 30 40 60 as this applies to me. The lady informed me that there is a record but effectively they do not apply unless you accumulate 12 in 3 years.

I asked about insurance and for a resident of ROI and she said it does not apply. The email address accompanying that number is npo@garda.ie so I presume I was talking to a guard.

CiniO

vintagevrs wrote: »

I just called the fixed charge processing office on 1890 30 40 60 as this applies to me. The lady informed me that there is a record but effectively they do not apply unless you accumulate 12 in 3 years.

I asked about insurance and for a resident of ROI and she said it does not apply. The email address accompanying that number is npo@garda.ie so I presume I was talking to a guard.

Possibly she was misinformed.

billy few mates

I drove on a UK licence here up to about last november.
At some point in time (possibly about five or six years ago) I got an €80 and two penalty points for speeding, I contacted the gardai at the time and told them about my UK licence and they said 'just send the €80 and the points will go on hold' (or similar).
I forgot all about it until now as I'm renewing my insurance so I contacted them yesterday to see if I still had those points and they told me I have zero points...

daheff

its worth remembering that technically you are required to change over your license to an Irish license should you be intending on settling in the country for a period of time (ie not on holidays).

now nobody ever does, but its still a requirement under EU laws.

CiniO

daheff wrote: »

its worth remembering that technically you are required to change over your license to an Irish license should you be intending on settling in the country for a period of time (ie not on holidays).

now nobody ever does, but its still a requirement under EU laws.

No, you are wrong here.
There's no such requirement under EU laws neither under Irish laws.

Stephenc66

daheff wrote: »

its worth remembering that technically you are required to change over your license to an Irish license should you be intending on settling in the country for a period of time (ie not on holidays).

now nobody ever does, but its still a requirement under EU laws.

Not according to citizens information, cant post links but copied from their website

Holders of licences issued by an EU/EEA member state
If you have a driving licence issued by an EU/EEA member state you can drive in Ireland as long as your existing licence is valid. If you wish to exchange your driving licence for an equivalent Irish driving licence when it expires, you must do so within 10 years of your driving licence expiring.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

sunnysoutheast

vintagevrs wrote: »

I just called the fixed charge processing office on 1890 30 40 60 as this applies to me. The lady informed me that there is a record but effectively they do not apply unless you accumulate 12 in 3 years.

I asked about insurance and for a resident of ROI and she said it does not apply. The email address accompanying that number is npo@garda.ie so I presume I was talking to a guard.

I asked this specific question regarding disclosure of Chill and they informed me that penalty points on the driving record for a foreign license must be declared on my own policy and all on which I am a named driver.

Whether that is true of all insurers I don't know. I believe some but not all have started to verify the information via the NDLS.

hi5

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I asked this specific question regarding disclosure of Chill and they informed me that penalty points on the driving record for a foreign license must be declared on my own policy and all on which I am a named driver.

Whether that is true of all insurers I don't know. I believe some but not all have started to verify the information via the NDLS.

Well, in the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies " they would say that wouldn't they".