Tree fell on my car.

Mantis Toboggan

So a tree fell on my car last night in the storm. It's pretty damaged windows smashed and the roof is banjaxed. It happened in a housing estate. I've been onto insurance company who have taken the car away.
Any advice on what to do? Who's liable?

afatbollix

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

marvsins

Tyson Fury wrote: »

So a tree fell on my car last night in the storm. It's pretty damaged windows smashed and the roof is banjaxed. It happened in a housing estate. I've been onto insurance company who have taken the car away.
Any advice on what to do? Who's liable?

Are you trying to blame the council for the storm ? And a tree falling on your car then ?

I'd say you are responsible for where you parked your own car.

Leroy42

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god

Sue him so, or I guess the Pope since he is his direct assignee on earth.

Atlantic Dawn

If the tree had been reported to them as being dodgy/rotten would there not be some liability on their part?

granturismo

Is the tree was on private property? then contact the property owner.

Mantis Toboggan

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

Really? ****

afatbollix

Are you fully comp or 3rd party?

Mantis Toboggan

marvsins wrote: »

Are you trying to blame the council for the storm ? And a tree falling on your car then ?

No, but surely there's public liability insurance with the management company? Failing that the trees are dangerous and one more needs to be cut down asap.

I'd say you are responsible for where you parked your own car.

I parked the car in the spot assigned for me in the apartment complex.

Atlantic Dawn

Looks like it all depends on the condition of the tree and if owners were aware or made aware of it, similar to this I would think....

It was alleged there was failure to properly maintain, prune or lop the tree so as to ensure it did not become top heavy or dangerous and to prevent it toppling over. It was also alleged there was failure to take necessary precautions or adequate care of a tree within close proximity of a public road to ensure it did not represent a serious, ongoing danger to the passing public.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/student-settles-for-3-75m-after-tree-fell-on-car-1.2091456

Mantis Toboggan

afatbollix wrote: »

Are you fully comp or 3rd party?

Fully comp. No no claims protection. I really just protect my no claims bonus

Mantis Toboggan

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If the tree had been reported to them as being dodgy/rotten would there not be some liability on their part?

The tree is clearly rotten, it didn't come up from the ground, it snapped half way!

Atlantic Dawn

Tyson Fury wrote: »

The tree is clearly rotten, it didn't come up from the ground, it snapped half way!

Take as many photos as you can, might be needed to backup claim. Your insurer should do this but no harm you having them too.

myshirt

Pursue it, see what you can do, but certainly be aware that yes this is an 'act of god' as they call it. You will find resistance from them to pay up, and their legal advice will very likely be not to pay.

Happened a solicitor in Limerick who parked his car on Myles Street and he had no luck. Expensive car also. Very distressing. If your car is a cheap car/below €10k just write it off to experience, but for a start no harm trying to pursue.

Sorry to hear.

callaway92

Tyson Fury wrote: »

The tree is clearly rotten, it didn't come up from the ground, it snapped half way!

No, he means was it previously reported?

It's like a bad pothole. If you drive into it and there is damage caused, the council are not liable.

However, if the council were previously notified and someone's vehicle gets damaged from it after - They are then liable.

Same goes for this tree one would imagine.

L1011

Why would fully comp not cover this? It covers other "acts of god" (I despise that that term still exists in any legal circumstances, but its unlikely to change) such as cars being flooded out in storms. Yes, your no claims is gone, but its paid for.

john kinsella

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

The act of God thing is a myth.

It is covered under your policy if you choose to claim and are fully comp. You will lose you NCB though

pajero12

myshirt wrote: »

If your car is a cheap car/below €10k just write it off to experience, but for a start no harm trying to pursue.

Sorry to hear.

You'd just write off a 10k car yeah? :rolleyes:

Mantis Toboggan

Thankfully they're organising a replacement car so I can get to work.

I've to try find out who "owns" the tree and the common area.
If the tree is dead which it might then they may be liable.
No mention of act of God from the insurance company!

P. Breathnach

pajero12 wrote: »

You'd just write off a 10k car yeah? :rolleyes:

If the insurance policy doesn't cover it, the owner might have no choice.

If the policy does cover it, there might be calculations involved in balancing the amount claimable against the loss of NCB.

afatbollix

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

Happened to a guy in work last night, he rang his insurance company and they told him that "act of god" doesn't apply in these situations. It's accidental damage.

If it's not paid by the public liability of the carpark he was in, it would be his own insurance that pays out on it. He has an assessor on the way out.

P. Breathnach

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Thankfully they're organising a replacement car so I can get to work.

I've to try find out who "owns" the tree and the common area.
If the tree is dead which it might then they may be liable.
No mention of act of God from the insurance company!

Sounds like you are covered. If the owner of the tree is found to be liable, then the insurance company will go after them to recover whatever they have paid out to you.

endacl

Did it make a sound?

barman linen

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

So when premiums rise because of claims paid out due to flooding or hurricanes or weather events - nobody got paid ?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-hurricanes-raise-insurance-premiums-2012-10-29

Mantis Toboggan

endacl wrote: »

Did it make a sound?

The tree?

No, neighbour told me. Lucky I wasn't in it.

nuac

Tree in common area in apartment block?

Is common area still owned by the developer or has it been transferred to the management company?

Is it an old tree? i.e. there before the apartments built?

If it snapped off halfway up, it might have had some rot, or crown allowed grow too big.

Was it ever pollarded or trimmed in any way, branches removed etc?

Any excavation near the tree which may have affected the roots, or dried out the soil?

Or due to excessive rain or drainage problem has root area got too wet, thus loosening the grip of the roots?

As you were already advised have remains of tree examined.

Have someone who knows trees inspect.

On info to date liability may be with developer or the management company.

Solicitor time

deathtocaptcha

afatbollix wrote: »

Act of god Im afraid. You will be lucky to get anything from your insurance.

sue the Catholic Church so...

Pat Mustard

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Who's liable?

Mod:

It is not allowed to ask who is liable and it is not allowed to assert who is liable because legal advice is not allowed.

The legal discussion can continue for the moment but no legal advice.

Pat Mustard

nuac wrote: »

Tree in common area in apartment block?

Is common area still owned by the developer or has it been transferred to the management company

Is it an old tree? i.e. there before the apartments built?

If it snapped off halfway up, it might have had some rot, or crown allowed grow too big.

Was it ever pollarded or trimmed in any way, branches removed etc

Any excavation near the tree which may have affected the roots, or dried out the soil?

Or due to excessive rain or drainage problem has root area got too wet, thus loosening the grip of the roots

As you were already advised have remains of tree examined.

Have someone who knows trees inspect.

On info to date liability may be with developer or the management company.

Solicitor time

^^^^^^^^^
THIS.

Vital to have the tree checked by an expert. A solicitor should advise whether this should be a tree surgeon or otherwise.

Also important to take a range of pictures.

griffin100

Simplest thing is to make a claim on your insurance and let your insurance company pursue any third party they deem may have a liability here. If you try and get the money out of a third party yourself they will probably just try and fob you off and even if you 'win' your claim against them this could take a long time, during which you potentially have no car. Yes it's a pain in the ass and it will affect your NCB until such time as any monies are recovered by your insurer but it will save you lots of hassle. On the other hand the Management Company and their insurers might just roll over and give you money for a new car / car repairs, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Paulw

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268437/

A very good film.

Just chase the insurance company, and make sure that they verify the status of the tree. The more photos you have of the tree, condition, etc, the better for you.

Losty Dublin

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sue him so, or I guess the Pope since he is his direct assignee on earth.

But then all Protestant, Muslim and Atheist motorists would then be discriminated against

selous

Why is it "act of God" when they have to pay up, but, It's covered by your policy when they don't, (and your premium shoots up)
Has Atheist Ireland not taken this up?:D

NUTLEY BOY

A few observations on the general principles.

If OP's car has comprehensive cover the damage to his car is covered. It is accidental damage.

OP may be out of pocket for the amount of any policy excess and out of pocket in the future on account of reduced or lost NCB.

If OP's insurers are dealing with the accidental damage claim they are entitled to exercise subrogation rights against the owner of the tree if there is any liability on the latter.

If the tree was defective one would expect liability to attach to the owner for failure to maintain it.

Finally, Act of God [Vis Major] tends to be the subject of much urban myth and utter blolocks. Very few insurance contracts actually have Act of God anywhere in their wordings. Act of God is also a proper but quaint defence to a public liability type claim. More normally, liability can be simply denied on the basis of no evidence of negligence.

ohnonotgmail

selous wrote: »

Why is it "act of God" when they have to pay up, but, It's covered by your policy when they don't, (and your premium shoots up)
Has Atheist Ireland not taken this up?

the term "Act of God" has nothing to do with religion. It describes an event outside human control for which no one can be held responsible.

Mantis Toboggan

So it looks like I'm going to lose my no claims bonus through no fault of my own and get screwed by the insurance companies, which I can't really afford as my insurance is already high.

Is it worth taking legal advice on this?

Atlantic Dawn

Tyson Fury wrote: »

So it looks like I'm going to lose my no claims bonus through no fault of my own and get screwed by the insurance companies, which I can't really afford as my insurance is already high.

Is it worth taking legal advice on this?

Get legal advice, most will give a free initial consultation.

To Elland Back

You can insure against Acts of God, storm and lightning being common examples. It generally comes under the blanket of Accidental Damage. What you can't do is hold another person liable for an Act of God that affects you. If lightning strikes your neighbours tree, which then falls on your car (for example), you cannot hold him responsible.

Peregrinus

Tyson Fury wrote: »

So it looks like I'm going to lose my no claims bonus through no fault of my own and get screwed by the insurance companies, which I can't really afford as my insurance is already high.

Is it worth taking legal advice on this?

If you claim on your insurance, obviously, you lose your no-claims bonus. That's pretty much what the name "no claims bonus" indicates.

Fault has nothing to do with it. If this is an act of God, then nobody's at fault. Still, a claim is a claim.

The only way to avoid claiming on your insurance (and so avoid losing your no-claims bonus) is to find someone you can sue. The most likely candidate is the owner of the land on which the tree stood but, as already pointed out, you would need some additional facts pointing to fault on their part in order to sue successfully.

It might be worth taking legal advice on whether you have a good claim against the owner of the land on which the tree stood.

NUTLEY BOY

Additional thought suggested to me by an insurance bod. Although OP has no NCB protection check that there is not a step-back reduction as opposed to losing the entire bonus in the event of a claim.