Insurance checks at the border.

Grab All Association

Whilst looking for EU Motor Insurance Directive 2009/103/EC third party coverage throughout the EU I noticed this

The directive:
obliges all motor vehicles in the EU to be covered by compulsory third party insurance (all passengers are covered, throughout the EU)
abolishes border checks on insurance, so that vehicles can be driven as easily between EU countries as within one country

and I instantly thought about the ROI/NI border multi agency checkpoints. So under this directive (whether the cars were insured or not. assume it would only apply to NI residents) the stopping/seizure of cars at the border for no insurance is in breach of EU directive?

challengemaster

Grab All Association wrote: »

and I instantly thought about the ROI/NI border multi agency checkpoints. So under this directive (whether the cars were insured or not. assume it would only apply to NI residents) the stopping/seizure of cars at the border for no insurance is in breach of EU directive?

No it's not, because you've completely misunderstood the directive.

All cars are required to have at least third party cover throughout the EU. This enables them to easily cross the border into other countries without the need for a permanent border checkpoint to ensure the vehicle has EU cover, allowing it to drive outside of its own country. That's what they mean by "abolishes border checks".

Nichard Dixon

Grab All Association wrote: »

Whilst looking for EU Motor Insurance Directive 2009/103/EC third party coverage throughout the EU I noticed this



and I instantly thought about the ROI/NI border multi agency checkpoints. So under this directive (whether the cars were insured or not. assume it would only apply to NI residents) the stopping/seizure of cars at the border for no insurance is in breach of EU directive?

This has to be one of the strangest threads on Boards.ie.
The directive ensures there is no need for Tryptiques and the like.

What the EU have failed to do is build an effective database so the law enforcement agencies can check the status of a visiting EU car easily.

Grab All Association

A few years ago coming home from Enniskillen, a friend there was dropping me back to Sligo railway station and we were stopped by Gardaí at a checkpoint near the border who asked her to produce her license and insurance.

That was all she was asked for. No DSP or Revenue at the checkpoint just the Gardaí. She produced both and after a quick walk around the car we were waved on. The cars in front and behind were stopped too.

So the Gardaí do set up checkpoints to check for tax/insurance upon entry.

If having valid insurance abolishes the need for permits and to be stopped at the border and asked to produce a certificate of insurance then hasn’t the Garda just breached the EU directive by stopping the cars and asking the driver to produce it?
And even if the car wasn’t insured, (he has no access to the UK insurance database so wouldn’t know this) then I assume he still can’t ask you to produce it then?

Nichard Dixon

Grab All Association wrote: »

So the Gardaí do set up checkpoints to check for tax/insurance upon entry.

The Gardai do checkpoints all over the State and check for tax/insurance, there is no difference in whether this checkpoint is near the border or at Mizen Head.

slimjimmc

OP, your answer is in the Directive itself. The Directive prohibits systematic checks which are intended for insurance and nothing else and checks which discriminate against foreign vehicles. It doesn't prevent normal traffic policing.

Article 4

Checks on insurance

Member States shall refrain from making checks on insurance against civil liability in respect of vehicles normally based in the territory of another Member State and in respect of vehicles normally based in the territory of a third country entering their territory from the territory of another Member State. However, they may carry out non-systematic checks on insurance provided that those checks are not discriminatory and are carried out as part of a control which is not aimed exclusively at insurance verification.

http://ec.europa.eu/finance/insurance/consumer/motor/index_en.htm
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0103

CiniO

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

What the EU have failed to do is build an effective database so the law enforcement agencies can check the status of a visiting EU car easily.

I thought that idea behind it, is that it's assumed that every car is insured based on fact that it's registered in home country.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in commentary to this directive, that police at road check is meant to assume car is insured if driver holds valid registration certificate and set of original number plates.

That would make sense, if insurance was obligatory in every EU member state at all times.
In most cases it probably is. F.e. I'm pretty sure in most countries when you have a car registered in your name you have to have it insured at all times. Only way to cancel insurance is to deregister the car, which would mean you'd need to hand down registration cert and number plates back to the office.
Unfortunately there are still countries, where it doesn't work like that. Ireland is one of them. UK is bit better, as you need insurance unless car is SORNed, but you don't need to hand down number plates and reg cert once you SORN the car, so that's of no use during foreign checks.

Anyway - from my experience, foreign police usually goes by this rules, and they don't even request to see insurance cert.
I was stopped few times in Germany, in France, Slovakia, Austria, and I was always asked for registration cert and driving licence, but never for insurance cert.
In Poland - I was pulled over at least 20 times in Irish registered car, and I think only once policeman asked me for insurance cert. Other times it was only registration cert and driving licence.
So it quite works, as they just assume that if I have car registred in my name, I also have a insurance on it.

Nichard Dixon

CiniO wrote: »

I thought that idea behind it, is that it's assumed that every car is insured based on fact that it's registered in home country.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere in commentary to this directive, that police at road check is meant to assume car is insured if driver holds valid registration certificate and set of original number plates.

That would make sense, if insurance was obligatory in every EU member state at all times.
In most cases it probably is. F.e. I'm pretty sure in most countries when you have a car registered in your name you have to have it insured at all times. Only way to cancel insurance is to deregister the car, which would mean you'd need to hand down registration cert and number plates back to the office.

This might be the law, but it does not ensure people have insurance. If someone stops paying insurance they may be required to return registration documents, but no doubt some people do not do so. What provisions exist in these countries to enforce this and how do these work in other parts of the EU?

CiniO

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

This might be the law, but it does not ensure people have insurance. If someone stops paying insurance they may be required to return registration documents, but no doubt some people do not do so. What provisions exist in these countries to enforce this and how do these work in other parts of the EU?

Well I'm not familiar with those laws in most countries. I'm just saying what I heard.
All I can say in Poland it works fairly decent. If you purchase a new car or import one from abroad, you need to buy insurance on the day of registration in Poland the latest. If you don't do it, horrendous fines will arrive in the post very soon.
Once you have a policy, it's valid on the car. If you sell the car, policy is being sold with it (in other words it's attached to the car), so no problem with a buyer failing to insure a car, as it comes already insured.
Once policy run's out, it's being renewed automatically by insurance company. Even if you don't pay the premium.
It's the obligation on insurance company to renew it and keep continuity. If premium is not paid, obviously insurer will be enforcing this payment through debt collectors /etc...
There is no system though, for deregistering vehicles or declaring the off the road, so big disadvantage here is that once you own a car in your name, you have to pay insurance on it at all times until it's sold or scrapped.

Maybe bit silly system, but it works very well, and problem of uninsured drivers is minimal compared to Ireland f.e.