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Easy way to compare gov expenditure and public policies laid out?

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  • 13-11-2015 4:19pm
    #1
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭


    Do I have to dig through a load of garble to get the policy information out and then bring it to the expenditure drawing board, so to speak....

    Also, is there an easy way for me to track results of particular policies over what is actually happening in reality?

    Thanks.


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    #2
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    euser1984 wrote: »
    Do I have to dig through a load of garble to get the policy information out and then bring it to the expenditure drawing board, so to speak....

    Also, is there an easy way for me to track results of particular policies over what is actually happening in reality?

    Thanks.

    There is nothing easy.

    The first starting place is this site:

    http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2016/2016.aspx


    This document, in particular is one to read:

    http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2016/Documents/Part%20II%20Expenditure%20Allocations%202016%20-%202018.pdf


    Then there are the individual departmental and state agency websites that provide further information:

    http://www.gov.ie/sites/

    If I had some idea of the particular query I could point you in the right direction.


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    #3
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    I'm trying to get a complete overview of what the government is doing with money and where they are spending most....I want to get an understanding of what the government are trying to achieve by what seems to be deliberate inequality....

    I suspect that the areas getting extra funding (while at first may seem unfair) will have a more medium to long term effect, that will ultimately be benefical to all areas in time; and thus, is money well spent...

    I'm also wondering if the government have been able to take advantage of the recession to fix hospital issues; which, without knowing much about our health system, has always been about middle management predominantly....what are the obstacles in the way of copying a successful system like in australia....


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    #4
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    euser1984 wrote: »
    I'm trying to get a complete overview of what the government is doing with money and where they are spending most....I want to get an understanding of what the government are trying to achieve by what seems to be deliberate inequality.....

    You need to look at both income and expenditure to consider equality issues.

    Look at Budget 2016. The increasing benefit of taxation measures stops if you earn over 70k. The money given back to public servants favoured the lower-paid.

    The concept of taxation expenditure is not one generally understood by the Irish population.

    How do you define equality? Equality of opportunity - everyone gets the same chance? Equality of outcome - everyone gets the same benefit?

    What if it could be shown that cutting unemployment benefit meant 60% of the unemployed took up jobs? Cutting unemployment benefit would therefore reduce inequality.



    euser1984 wrote: »
    I suspect that the areas getting extra funding (while at first may seem unfair) will have a more medium to long term effect, that will ultimately be benefical to all areas in time; and thus, is money well spent....

    Health is getting the most extra spending. Social welfare takes the biggest portion of government spending.

    euser1984 wrote: »
    I'm also wondering if the government have been able to take advantage of the recession to fix hospital issues; which, without knowing much about our health system, has always been about middle management predominantly....what are the obstacles in the way of copying a successful system like in australia....

    Are hospital issue about middle management predominantly?

    We have one of the highest nurse/patient ratios in the OECD and one of the lowest consultant/patient ratios? Should we cut the number of lower-paid nurses and increase the number of higher-paid consultants, thus increasing inequality in the labour force but improving equality among the general population in the form of improved health outcomes?

    Choices, choices, choices. Debate about public services in Ireland is woefully immature, with the "tax the rich" idiots shouting loudest on one side and the "please the public" populists on the other.


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    #5
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    Godge wrote: »
    Look at Budget 2016. The increasing benefit of taxation measures stops if you earn over 70k. The money given back to public servants favoured the lower-paid.

    Why did they do that? Was there a huge discrepancy or a culture that was holding back good quality of work, and not encouraging people without the big responsibilities, to work harder?

    Godge wrote: »
    How do you define equality? Equality of opportunity - everyone gets the same chance? Equality of outcome - everyone gets the same benefit?

    Well, if you can see direct benefits from civil servants to manage money better and thus have "more" better managed money it's probably beneficial to the majority.
    Godge wrote: »
    What if it could be shown that cutting unemployment benefit meant 60% of the unemployed took up jobs? Cutting unemployment benefit would therefore reduce inequality.

    Spending money on creating jobs and education schemes would give people equal opportunity....

    Godge wrote: »
    Health is getting the most extra spending. Social welfare takes the biggest portion of government spending.

    Is health spending, money going down the drain though? Is it possible to get a breakdown of health spending?

    Godge wrote: »
    Are hospital issue about middle management predominantly?

    We have one of the highest nurse/patient ratios in the OECD and one of the lowest consultant/patient ratios? Should we cut the number of lower-paid nurses and increase the number of higher-paid consultants, thus increasing inequality in the labour force but improving equality among the general population in the form of improved health outcomes?

    What's the long term goal to solve this issue for better health services for everyone?
    Godge wrote: »
    Choices, choices, choices. Debate about public services in Ireland is woefully immature, with the "tax the rich" idiots shouting loudest on one side and the "please the public" populists on the other.

    Is the media setup to educate people or reinforce these "tax the rich" type people? If so, whose interests is it in?


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    #6
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    Do you think what I have said is equality?


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    #7
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    PublicPolicy.ie have a good web app that's shows a summary.


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    #8
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    euser1984 wrote: »
    Do you think what I have said is equality?


    There is no truth in this. Equality is not an absolute truth, it is relative.


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    #9
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    You will end up doing this guys's entire college essay if you aren't careful Godge!


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    #10
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    It was research for a radio show I did this morning BoJack. Can you explain what you mean by relative Godge?


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    #11
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    euser1984 wrote: »
    It was research for a radio show I did this morning BoJack.

    What channel?
    Was it live or when will it air?


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    #12
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    euser1984 wrote: »
    It was research for a radio show I did this morning BoJack. Can you explain what you mean by relative Godge?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism

    "Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration"

    Equality depends on where you are standing. A homeless person in Ireland is still in the top 20% of people worldwide in terms of resources available to them.


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    #13
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    euser1984 wrote: »
    It was research for a radio show I did this morning BoJack. Can you explain what you mean by relative Godge?

    It's a zero sum game.

    If you are paying for one thing, you aren't paying for something else.

    For example,

    .......should the government be spending money on alleviating the homelessness crisis or providing inducements to nurses to return to work in over-stretched EDs and HDUs in the hospitals?

    .......should money be spent on roads or public transport?

    ......is it better (in equality terms) to cut VAT or PAYE?

    ......should you build a school or a police station

    etc etc etc


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    #14
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    What channel?
    Was it live or when will it air?

    It was live on community radio....


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    #15
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod Note:

    Not really a political debate so much as a query on research. And I think Godge has given enough to get people going. The discussion on what is or is not equality is not really on top.


This discussion has been closed.
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