who buys stolen bikes and how are they advertised?

fret_wimp2

After my own bike being stolen i notice ther are a lot of bikes stolen on a regular basis. It seems theres a thriving market.

How are they sold though?
Do the thieves look like honest people and just sell to bike shops and on adverts/donedeal? I would assume this would quickly lead to being caught.

Are they just stealing them for fun and doing nothing with them?

Or is it something else i haven't considered?

Beasty

Before anyone goes down this route, do not mention any specifics about sellers, locations etc where you think stolen bikes may be sold. Feel free to speak to the Gardaí with such info if you feel strongly enough.

Any questions please PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Thanks

cython

There have been suggestions made several times on this forum of bikes being stolen for export, that is to say they're pinched and then put straight in a shipping container/on a boat, either whole, or broken down for components.

Not sure how true this may be, but it's another possibility that has definitely been raised in the past.

Lumen

Little scumbags nick them, bigger scumbags buy and sell them on. Many never appear online, they're sold the old fashioned way.

The scumbag who lifts the bike probably gets no more than 50 euro.

tomasrojo

I've been offered a bike on the street by a demotic gentleman for €50. Strangely, I was wheeling my own bike beside me at the time. Guess he just thought I might be in the market for a second one, which I would then trail home in parallel, the way the Dutch bring bikes for friends.

godtabh

Lumen wrote: »

Little scumbags nick them, bigger scumbags buy and sell them on. Many never appear online, they're sold the old fashioned way.

The scumbag who lifts the bike probably gets no more than 50 euro.

Thats sickening when you consider that people could be left with a thousand of euro void to fill

Lumen

godtabh wrote: »

Thats sickening when you consider that people could be left with a thousand of euro void to fill

Yeah, but on the upside someone gets a lovely bike for a really great price!

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Yeah, but on the upside someone gets a lovely bike for a really great price!

That tends to get forgotten.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Yeah, but on the upside someone gets a lovely bike for a really great price!

The stealer, the seller and the new owner all benefit. On the downside the original owner is worse off. On the whole, society is better off.

tomasrojo

It's the Stolen Bike Fallacy Theory!

(Also, remember the buyer perhaps would not have a bike at all before the theft, so he becomes more mobile and hence more able to seek out goods and services. The original owner is undoubtedly a keen cyclist, so will surely buy another, soon to be stolen again, in a virtuous circle, this time including perhaps a bicycle shop in the circulation of money or credit.)

Wishbone Ash

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

.... and just sell to bike shops....

It's virtually impossible to get a bike shop to take a trade in when upgrading so it would be even more unlikely that they'd just buy one to sell on.

beyondbelief67

When my bike was stolen I kept an eye on done deal and adverts, saw it advertised after couple of weeks, tried putting in an offer, then contacted garda, hoping they could help, only to be told they dont have enough people to send one with me, and how could I prove it is mine etc
Needless to say they were right, I resisted the urge to meet the seller with some friends and get my bike back.
In uk the police used to stamp bikes for people dont know if they do that here?
Someone gave me a tip of putting my name and address on a piece of paper inside the handle to prove it's mine, but that's a waste of time unless a garda is there, the theif would simply ride Off on it again!

Superhorse

Worked in Dublin docks for many years and the number of containers that went out with motorbikes and bicycles in the back had to be seen to be believed. You'd also be amazed how many cars when dismantled by professionals can fit into a single container.

Wishbone Ash

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

... to prove it's mine, but that's a waste of time unless a garda is there, the theif would simply ride Off on it again!

You don't need to prove to the thief that it's yours - take it for a test ride and ride to the nearest Garda Station.

RainyDay

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

When my bike was stolen I kept an eye on done deal and adverts, saw it advertised after couple of weeks, tried putting in an offer, then contacted garda, hoping they could help, only to be told they dont have enough people to send one with me, and how could I prove it is mine etc
Needless to say they were right, I resisted the urge to meet the seller with some friends and get my bike back.
In uk the police used to stamp bikes for people dont know if they do that here?
Someone gave me a tip of putting my name and address on a piece of paper inside the handle to prove it's mine, but that's a waste of time unless a garda is there, the theif would simply ride Off on it again!

Did you not have the serial number?

traprunner

cython wrote: »

There have been suggestions made several times on this forum of bikes being stolen for export, that is to say they're pinched and then put straight in a shipping container/on a boat, either whole, or broken down for components.

Not sure how true this may be, but it's another possibility that has definitely been raised in the past.

That has happened to cars in the past. They get broken down and the parts wrapped nicely and then sent off in a container.

Kaisr Sose

Many many go to Eastern Europe and beyond. Same as the marine parts stolen from boats ( one with a GPS fitted surfaced in Russia all of a sudden) or the skis that are nabbed in ski resorts. In the new market country nobody will ask if it's stolen or would not care.

beyondbelief67

RainyDay wrote: »

Did you not have the serial number?

No unfortunately, I didn't think it would get stolen in such a small place, I'm just lucky it was only a cheap one.

beyondbelief67

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You don't need to prove to the thief that it's yours - take it for a test ride and ride to the nearest Garda Station.

Wish I had thought of that, hopefully it won't happen again but if it does that's what I will try.

07Lapierre

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

When my bike was stolen I kept an eye on done deal and adverts, saw it advertised after couple of weeks, tried putting in an offer, then contacted garda, hoping they could help, only to be told they dont have enough people to send one with me, and how could I prove it is mine etc
Needless to say they were right, I resisted the urge to meet the seller with some friends and get my bike back.
In uk the police used to stamp bikes for people dont know if they do that here?
Someone gave me a tip of putting my name and address on a piece of paper inside the handle to prove it's mine, but that's a waste of time unless a garda is there, the theif would simply ride Off on it again!

Why do you need the police/Gardaí to engrave your bike? Do it yourself..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0095DIETC/ref=s9_top_hd_bw_g60_i2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=1TR2ESN4VH9J8Q5BKSQR&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=687332647&pf_rd_i=4061403031

Its actually a good idea..think ill do my own bikes..

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote: »

Did you not have the serial number?

Not all bikes have serial numbers (especially if it's a carbon build).

Delboy007

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Not all bikes have serial numbers (especially if it's a carbon build).

does carbon bikes not have a serial number ; if not hoe do u insure it?

Raam

Delboy007 wrote: »

does carbon bikes not have a serial number ; if not hoe do u insure it?

They do, but not stamped into the frame in the same way as steel or alu.

Delboy007

Raam wrote: »

They do, but not stamped into the frame in the same way as steel or alu.

ah sound thanks for thst I just bought a carbon 2nd hand bike (from shop waiting to pick it up).
we're would d serial number be?

Raam

Delboy007 wrote: »

ah sound thanks for thst I just bought a carbon 2nd hand bike (from shop waiting to pick it up).
we're would d serial number be?

Under the bottom bracket, likely.

Duke O Smiley

I don't often post in this forum but this caught my eye on the main page so I thought I would share.

My brother runs a small bike repair shop from a lock up behind our house. He deals in both cycles and motorbikes and the majority of custom would be from locals whom we know well or the odd courier who would come in in an emergency. He tips away at his own projects in between so all things considered business is quiet but manageable for him.

He does get a lot of people in looking to sell him bikes, most of which seem to be dodgy characters trying to sell equally dodgy bikes. From what I gather, cheaper bikes from around the locale will be painted up and a lot of the time if a bike is stolen from one side of the city it will be by someone from the other.

They can be very blasé about it too

spurious

In Dublin, there are plenty places closer to home than Eastern Europe where these are sold. Many of our most prolific criminals started out on the 'robbed bikes' route.

I know because I had the dubious pleasure of teaching many of them. There are often gardai in attendance at 'markets' where they are sold. They sell for stupid money - twenty to fifty euro.

dermabrasion

All of this does beg the question to why the Garda do not really go for these arseholes. A serious crackdown on markets, fences, exporters. It would seem like low-hanging fruit to do this as it is in plain sight.
I was in a second hand bike shop in the North inner city looking for a part. I had an old cable lock on my bike for my wheels. A tiny little bollix (no more than 6 or 7y.o.) came into the shop and lines up behind me. He says to me 'dem locks are brutal, I cud smash it open in 10 secs. yew shud get an udder one". He was dead right as he demonstrated his skills.
The point is, that bike theiving is endemic, it pays, and there seems to be impunity.

Yarisbob

At our work there are 2 bike sheds which hold around 80 bikes each. A lad I worked with got a BTW bike worth about €700. He forgot his lock one morning and went in to get a chain and padlock. ike was stolen in that time 10mins

Security had it all on camera and the Gardaí were called. Gardaí said "oh yeah we know who that is alrite". When they apprehended him that afternoon he forgot who he "gave" the bike to. I mean hello !!

As this carachter had 92 previous convictions he got 2 months in the nick. Only thing was at the time he was convicted he was already in the nick for a more serious offence so it didn't matter to him whether or which. The sentence ran concurrently

Bike was never seen again even though the scumbag was bang to rights !!

Feckin career criminals make me sick

RainyDay

dermabrasion wrote: »

All of this does beg the question to why the Garda do not really go for these arseholes. A serious crackdown on markets, fences, exporters. It would seem like low-hanging fruit to do this as it is in plain sight.

The OPs question is a great question - who buys these bikes? If there were no buyers, there would be no reason for the thieving.

Do these bikes really appear regularly at markets? If so, can we start reporting those markets every time?

Qualitymark

Locating your bicycle's serial number http://www.utexas.edu/parking/transportation/biking/find_serial.html

noc231073

I have 2 Chinese frames with no serial numbers ..
There non branded and don't come with numbers...
You have to be really careful buying bikes in the likes of DD..etc if it's to cheap be wary ..
Always question the owner about the bike and u get a good idea of his knowledge of bikes ..
If he seems to know very little walk...
The last thing u want is to be riding about on someone stolen bike

It's just a real pity there not a register to check serial numbers for stolen bikes

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote: »

The OPs question is a great question - who buys these bikes? If there were no buyers, there would be no reason for the thieving...

Unfortunately going by occasional posts here, it seems many 'regular' cyclists buy them. Any time there's a thread about leaving bikes at train stations, college etc. there will always be those who advise "Get a cheap €50 bike on DD and keep your good bike for the weekend" or words to that effect.

noc231073 wrote: »

..Always question the owner about the bike and u get a good idea of his knowledge of bikes ....

The ad often gives it away especially if something that would normally be a positive factor isn't highlighted. For example, a road bike with full Ultegra groupset and expensive wheels advertised simply as "Black racing bike".

When contacting the seller always say something along the lines of "I'm calling about the bike for sale" - don't identify the make. If the seller has to ask "Which one", proceed with caution. Most genuine sellers will only be selling one bike.

A simple question about the gearing ratio can also identify a suspicious seller. Most genuine sellers will be able to answer this.

Beasty

noc231073 wrote: »

It's just a real pity there not a register to check serial numbers for stolen bikes

There's an idea for an App if anyone has the wherewithal and a bit of time to develop it

There will though be an issue of getting people to register (I've a few bikes, and do have the frame number of a number of them, but there are a couple I didn't make a note of - maybe something like that would encourage me, as did the Cervelo website for the ones I have recorded - had to enter the serial number when registering my bikes with them).

Then there would be questions over accuracy of the info recorded, although I'm guessing if people properly record the make/model there should be little chance of someone being wrongly accused of having a stolen bike

fret_wimp2

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A simple question about the gearing ratio can also identify a suspicious seller. Most genuine sellers will be able to answer this.

I wouldnt, i purchased my last MTB based on advice and recommendations of a friend who knows bikes. I dont, so i relied on him to steer me in the right direction.
After that, I didnt need to know a lot of technical details about it, i took it to the mountains and cycled it, it worked well and i didnt research it any further as nothing went wrong wtih it!

Wishbone Ash

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

I wouldnt, i purchased my last MTB based on advice and recommendations of a friend who knows bikes. I dont, so i relied on him to steer me in the right direction.
After that, I didnt need to know a lot of technical details about it, i took it to the mountains and cycled it, it worked well and i didnt research it any further as nothing went wrong wtih it!

If you were selling that bike now, wouldn't you get the advice of your friend again and add some technical details to the advert or would you simply put "MTB for sale"?

And I did use the word 'most' not 'all'.

fret_wimp2

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you were selling that bike now, wouldn't you get the advice of your friend again and add some technical details to the advert or would you simply put "MTB for sale"?

Thats a fair point

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When contacting the seller always say something along the lines of "I'm calling about the bike for sale" - don't identify the make. If the seller has to ask "Which one", proceed with caution. Most genuine sellers will only be selling one bike.

This is good advice IMO.

I wrote about something similar when my son was trying to purchase a bike about two years ago.

Almost all the bikes we went to view were dodgy, and some sellers having a few bikes for sale when we arrived.

One idiot in Tallaght was quick to tell us where he robbed his bikes from (Tallaght IT), just to let us know that we'd be grand out around Portmarnock lol.. He was reported to AGS of course, but I'd doubt he's escaped their attention anyway.

We arrived for another viewing in Smithfield, same story ~ the seller had a few bikes for sale.. That one was kinda funny because a few of his disgruntled neighbors told us he was "a fooking scumbag who sells robbed bikes" ~ he lived within sight of the Bridewell Garda station!.

We eventually bought a lovely hybrid with receipts from a nice lad in Santry, got a €500 bike for €200 with hardly more than a few kilometers on it so there are genuine bargains out there, but we were beginning to lose heart.

Point to note, NONE of the stolen or dodgy bikes we viewed from Adverts and Donedeal were cheap!!.. The legit bike was as cheap, so a cheap price isn't always a give away.

But WBA's advice there is solid advice.

**Oh my son got tired of the bike after about a week and gave it to ME now its my daily commute and a lovely bike**

Delboy007

Qualitymark wrote: »

Locating your bicycle's serial number http://www.utexas.edu/parking/transportation/biking/find_serial.html

Thanks for this

PaddyFagan

noc231073 wrote: »

It's just a real pity there not a register to check serial numbers for stolen bikes

I'm using http://www.bikeshepherd.org/ after someone on here mentioned it - if nothing else it means I have a clear photo of my bike with a record of the serial number etc, I'm not sure anyone would be dumb enough to sell a bike with the bar code stickers (http://www.bikeshepherd.org/pulseid.html) still on it.

Paddy

PS I think this is the link to record for my bike (the status would be different if it had been marked as stolen) http://www.bikeshepherd.org/bikes/show/giant-tcr-advanced-3-60878844

Qualitymark

There's also bikeregister.ie.

It would be a nice idea to gather a small subscription and use the numbers for a lottery to encourage people to join their bikes up. Wouldn't have to be huge prizes - a (preferably branded) saddle bag of tools would be grand.

Macy0161

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Unfortunately going by occasional posts here, it seems many 'regular' cyclists buy them. Any time there's a thread about leaving bikes at train stations, college etc. there will always be those who advise "Get a cheap €50 bike on DD and keep your good bike for the weekend" or words to that effect.

I always took that advice to mean a BSO rather than something decent and nicked to be honest. I wouldn't expect to pay more than €50 for a genuine sale apollo (or equivalent) that wasn't much more than a €100 new.

Regarding marking - I insured my recent bike with cyclesure, and paid extra for the ISR register. Not sure the guards would even check with a UV light, would they?

When I was growing up in the UK, the police used to do a marking scheme for bikes - pretty much an ultraviolet indelible marker with your postcode on it. While not great, it's possibly something that could be looked at now we do have postcodes.

Qualitymark

It would also be worth a campaign with bike makers to put the frame number somewhere it could be seen instantly.

An online bike register database with a "Check this bike is legit" search facility would be particularly useful. This would mean that if your bike was stolen you could mark it as such to warn off honest buyers.

Edit: It would also be good if everyone insured their bikes, and the insurance companies were part of such a database.

RainyDay

Isaac Embarrassed Racehorse wrote: »

This is good advice IMO.

I wrote about something similar when my son was trying to purchase a bike about two years ago.

Almost all the bikes we went to view were dodgy, and some sellers having a few bikes for sale when we arrived.

One idiot in Tallaght was quick to tell us where he robbed his bikes from (Tallaght IT), just to let us know that we'd be grand out around Portmarnock lol.. He was reported to AGS of course, but I'd doubt he's escaped their attention anyway.

We arrived for another viewing in Smithfield, same story ~ the seller had a few bikes for sale.. That one was kinda funny because a few of his disgruntled neighbors told us he was "a fooking scumbag who sells robbed bikes" ~ he lived within sight of the Bridewell Garda station!.

Did you try letting the Gardai know about these chancers? I don't know if they would do anything much, but I really couldn't sleep without having at least given it a shot.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Unfortunately going by occasional posts here, it seems many 'regular' cyclists buy them. Any time there's a thread about leaving bikes at train stations, college etc. there will always be those who advise "Get a cheap €50 bike on DD and keep your good bike for the weekend" or words to that effect.

The ad often gives it away especially if something that would normally be a positive factor isn't highlighted. For example, a road bike with full Ultegra groupset and expensive wheels advertised simply as "Black racing bike".

It's fairly scary if people are knowingly buying stolen bikes. There is nothing wrong in principal with buying a €50 bike from donedeal. The problem arises if it is a €500 bike for sale for €50, though as others have pointed out, the prices aren't necessarily that low.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A simple question about the gearing ratio can also identify a suspicious seller. Most genuine sellers will be able to answer this.

This wouldn't work with me - it would be beyond my technical ability.

I think the frequency of selling should be the red flag. There is a big question about why the advertising companies would allow someone to repeatedly sell 2nd hand bikes. Very few regular folks would be pushing large numbers of 2nd hand bikes through this channel. And if you do have a sideline business, maybe there should be additional id requirements by the advertisers to keep things straight.

Qualitymark

RainyDay wrote: »

I think the frequency of selling should be the red flag. There is a big question about why the advertising companies would allow someone to repeatedly sell 2nd hand bikes. Very few regular folks would be pushing large numbers of 2nd hand bikes through this channel. And if you do have a sideline business, maybe there should be additional id requirements by the advertisers to keep things straight.

Absolutely. You may also notice that people who don't know bikes well will photograph the bikes in a strange kind of way. I won't elaborate, for obvious reasons, but take a look at what you expect to see and what you're actually being shown.

But the main thing is to ask for a receipt, and refuse to buy without it.

Edit - I see bikeregister.ie has notices of stolen bikes: http://bikeregister.blogspot.ie

Sunny Dayz

My husband was looking for a bike the last few months, not an expensive one, just a regular one for going on family cycles. He found that the dodgy ones would have nice pictures up to entice you, but when you ring or message they say oh that one has just gone but I have another bike just in, I haven't even cleaned it up yet but you can have it cheaper. Himself went along with it on one occasion and the bike was the same make and style as in the pics, but was rusted in parts which wasn't in the pics and wasn't cleaned so you couldn't see it properly.
I guess there's no problem in getting rid (ie selling) stolen bikes if you can find either someone who doesn't care whether it's stolen or not or someone who genuinely believes the bike isn't stolen. Can see an increase now in stolen bike sales with people desperate to get their child a bike but facing a tight budget.