Cattle Movements or Owners

Gilroy

Hi all,

Question in relation to the electronic boards in Marts across the country.

1) Does the board show the total Movements or Owners?
2) Should the electronic board be the same as the herd numbers and names listed on the blue cards?
3) If you do a FARM to FARM, Movement in FEEDLOT or Movement out FEEDLOT etc etc, do these show up on the board.

Reason i ask is because i sold some cattle in doubles (two angus together) they only had 1 owner before i bought them on the blue card. They moved to FEEDLOT (someone elses herd) for 2 months feeding then back to mine.

The electronic boards showed 7 or 8 against, when i was selling. Do the marts add both cattles movements together if selling in doubles???

Need to understand how this works? any help please....

Base price

The number of movements shown on the back of the card may not necessarily be accurate. Some people may not fill in that part, be it my mistake or on purpose particularly if they only intend to keep the animals for a short time. Occasionally dealers have been known to do it as the less movements shown the better.
The accurate number of movements will be recorded by the Dept and will show on Agfood.

Base price

Should have added that it is the legal responsibility of the new owner to fill in their herd number & details on the back of the card.

Gilroy

Base price wrote: »

The number of movements shown on the back of the card may not necessarily be accurate. Some people may not fill in that part, be it my mistake or on purpose particularly if they only intend to keep the animals for a short time. Occasionally dealers have been known to do it as the less movements shown the better.
The accurate number of movements will be recorded by the Dept and will show on Agfood.

So on agfood, you click on a tag number and it tells you the details. In the "movement from" section, its mentions the herd number the animal moved from. I think its the herd number movement from that shows up on the electronic board in the marts.

Kovu

I'm not entirely sure on this so I could be wrong, you 'd want to ask the office staff in the mart. But I think if an animal is unsold at the mart and brought home, it shows up on the screen as a movement as well. It's something to do with the way the animal goes from herd no to the mart number and back again.
Any animal that goes to an agri show as well will have an extra movement for that too. It's a weird glitch that isn't counted in the factories as only movements from herd num ---> herd number is counted for the BB scheme.

I said

Kovu wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure on this so I could be wrong, you 'd want to ask the office staff in the mart. But I think if an animal is unsold at the mart and brought home, it shows up on the screen as a movement as well. It's something to do with the way the animal goes from herd no to the mart number and back again.
Any animal that goes to an agri show as well will have an extra movement for that too. It's a weird glitch that isn't counted in the factories as only movements from herd num ---> herd number is counted for the BB scheme.

No the mart I deal with puts up the number of moves I buy from an agent so I'll explain what happens,the agent buys stock in a mart that shows as two movements(1 into mart that is selling and 1 movement out from mart when he buys=2 moves)I buy from him farm to farm =1 movement that's three moves so far.
I sell at the mart and the board shows its a 4th movement when the animal gets to the ring. The lad buying is the fifth movement for that animal. It's a load of bollox really another way of riding ya for BB movements very confusing for everyone.

Base price

I said wrote: »

No the mart I deal with puts up the number of moves I buy from an agent so I'll explain what happens,the agent buys stock in a mart that shows as two movements(1 into mart that is selling and 1 movement out from mart when he buys=2 moves)I buy from him farm to farm =1 movement that's three moves so far.
I sell at the mart and the board shows its a 4th movement when the animal gets to the ring. The lad buying is the fifth movement for that animal. It's a load of bollox really another way of riding ya for BB movements very confusing for everyone.

That is the stupidest system I've ever heard of. I know the mart stamp is on the back of the card but when selling the buyer in the ring doesn't see them. Surely has to effect price.

I said

Base price wrote: »

That is the stupidest system I've ever heard of. I know the mart stamp is on the back of the card but when selling the buyer in the ring doesn't see them. Surely has to effect price.

Yes it does affect price it's not clear to the new buyer what or how many moves it is

eoinmk2

Do the factories get to sell the beef as QA if it comes from a QA farm, but not have to pay the premium if something like movements are over the limit?

be interesting to know the figure of how many animals killed off QA farms actually get the bonus

Bullocks

eoinmk2 wrote: »

Do the factories get to sell the beef as QA if it comes from a QA farm, but not have to pay the premium if something like movements are over the limit?

be interesting to know the figure of how many animals killed off QA farms actually get the bonus

You can bet your balls they will be selling it as BB meat regardless .
I know 3 lads locally that have pulled out of BB lately after failing the audit on what they thought were small things . One lad reckoned between this and that he was only getting the 12c extra on 4 out of 10 cattle he sent to the factory

Base price

Some factories were not accepting cull cows from herds that were not QA approved even though they do not quality for the bonus.
Although I read on this forum that a factory down south was giving 6c/kg bonus for cows from QA herds.

farawaygrass

I said wrote: »

No the mart I deal with puts up the number of moves I buy from an agent so I'll explain what happens,the agent buys stock in a mart that shows as two movements(1 into mart that is selling and 1 movement out from mart when he buys=2 moves)I buy from him farm to farm =1 movement that's three moves so far.
I sell at the mart and the board shows its a 4th movement when the animal gets to the ring. The lad buying is the fifth movement for that animal. It's a load of bollox really another way of riding ya for BB movements very confusing for everyone.

The way I understand it is as follows: say kovu calves a cow, keeps the calf however long and brings it to the mart. It enters the ring and there is one movement up. I buy the calf and sell it on in a year and base price buys it. That will be the third movement. There is a misunderstanding between the term movements and owners. Yes going to the mart counts as a movement, but it's the actual owners that count. Kovu could bring that calf to the mart nine times and not sell her, and sell her on the tenth. It would still only go down as the second movement ie the second owner.
It's such a frustrating issue and hampering trade and farm profit big time.
Even the English have a better system where if it spends 90 days between two farms, once they are quality assured (or whatever the English term is) and they will qualify for the bonus. So it could be 80 days on one farm, second farm buys him and keeps him ten days, that'll do to qualify for the bonus. Also dealers shouldn't count as a movement, especially for calves. A local calf man buys calves in the south. If I buy one it's already on its third movement, therefore if I sell as a weanling to a store man and he sells on to finishing man, then the animal won't qualify for bonuses. It's really a rule to keep the farmer from turning a few quid handy enough

50HX

what's the max movement for bonuses?

I said

50HX wrote: »

what's the max movement for bonuses?

Four as in you are the fourth and final owner

Farrell

Ok, how does B&B work, is that a movement/owner?

Kovu

Farrell wrote: »

Ok, how does B&B work, is that a movement/owner?

If they are moved into a herd number, it is a full movement. Marts/agri shows are holdings with assigned numbers like M166 is Carrigallen, I think Mohill is M291. All animals entered into the sale are 'held' in it for the day and then released back to original herd numbers if unsold or passed on as a full new owner movement if sold.
Temporary holdings are arranged for shows and are not full movements as they are not herd numbers but will show up on the screens at marts.

*I'm fairly sure anyway.

Farrell

Kovu wrote: »

If they are moved into a herd number, it is a full movement. Marts/agri shows are holdings with assigned numbers like M166 is Carrigallen, I think Mohill is M291. All animals entered into the sale are 'held' in it for the day and then released back to original herd numbers if unsold or passed on as a full new owner movement if sold.
Temporary holdings are arranged for shows and are not full movements as they are not herd numbers but will show up on the screens at marts.

*I'm fairly sure anyway.

I thought that too, but when you look at the board in the mart, it says number of owners, not movements or keepers.
When you look at the cards, every keeper has to go on.

Kovu

Farrell wrote: »

I thought that too, but when you look at the board in the mart, it says number of owners, not movements or keepers.
When you look at the cards, every keeper has to go on.

Hmmm, I'll have to take a look next time I'm in the mart. You can check tags for herd no's/movements on the computer system if you ask politely in the office (The F3 tag screen will show all movements in/out of herds incl unsold as it shows going into & out of marts)
I'll see if I can mark down a few with only herd no's and a few with unsold days out and see how they compare on the board.

roosky

Hi,

I am looking at movements on agfood and it says for example:

13/10/16 Farm 1 to mart
13/10/16 Mart to farm 2

Is this one or two movements???

simx

roosky wrote: »

Hi,

I am looking at movements on agfood and it says for example:

13/10/16 Farm 1 to mart
13/10/16 Mart to farm 2

Is this one or two movements???

One

_Brian

simx wrote: »

One

I'm presuming if the animal is unsold and returns to farm one that it's not counted at all ?

Lady Haywire

_Brian wrote: »

I'm presuming if the animal is unsold and returns to farm one that it's not counted at all ?

It's not counted in the factory but will show up on the screen at marts.

Base price

Lady Haywire wrote: »

It's not counted in the factory but will show up on the screen at marts.

Stupid system. One wonders do factory feedlot agents have a app that tells them the number of actual on farm movements !!!

Bass Reeves

Lady Haywire wrote: »

It's not counted in the factory but will show up on the screen at marts.

No I do not think it will show up on mart screens. The screens I see only show number of owners

Lady Haywire

Base price wrote: »

Stupid system. One wonders do factory feedlot agents have a app that tells them the number of actual on farm movements !!!

You can be an arse & ask in the mart office :P

Farrell

Sure even B&B counts as a movement.
Anyone buying dairy bred stock to finish would find it hard to stay under 4 moves.