rights when pulled by guards

rkrk

not sure if this is the correct place for this but feel free to move it admin.

so i pulled into a busy petrol station about 5 pm today alone and after getting petrol an undercover garda car pulled in next to me and a male and a female guard asked me my name and where im from.i told them, asked for my license which i produced.
they then asked why im in rochestown as im not from that side of the city.i had been grocery shopping nearby. i asked why they wanted to know and had i done something wrong.
they said they got reports of somebody smoking cannabis in a black car in there.told them it wasnt me i had just arrived a few mins ago.they said they were seardhing me under missuse of drugs act.
they searched me and the car while asking me about 30 questions some stupid and off topic.
the male guard asked me to pull out my jox strap and then said to lift my balls out of the way and he got full view!!
he then went tru my phone and messages and i asked didnt he need a warrant for that he said he had the right to check my electronic equipment.
if he got reports should there not be an easier way for him to investigate instead of all that,he could even see all my shopping in the boot. there was about 4 or 5 other black cars as its a busy forecourt but these didnt seem to be getting his attention.i drive a 04 civic type r and was thinking this was why he pulled me but surely this doesnt give him the right to do what he did?when i quesioned him at the beginning it was like he made up the drugs thing to cover his ass

Atlantic Dawn

Did they show you their ID's?

toptom

Sure didn't they leave you alone once they didn't find anything illegal on you.

Colser

They searched you on the forecourt?

Hunter Mahan

You could have asked them for ID, and you could have asked them to bring you back to the station for the search.
Once they've made the decision to search they can search you and all you have with you.

antodeco

So they can even go through your phone? That's seems very crazy, especially when it was a "smoking cannabis" charge.

Also, you said they searched your privates? Where did this happen?

Hunter Mahan

There was no "charge" just a suspicion of drug use. Sounds like he didn't have anything on him.

As far as I'm aware the Misuse of Dugs Act gives extensive powers to search once the Guard can justify the suspicion. They could have brought him/her and the car to a police station if they wanted to.

toptom

antodeco wrote: »

So they can even go through your phone? That's seems very crazy, especially when it was a "smoking cannabis" charge.

Also, you said they searched your privates? Where did this happen?

Its not really when you think of it, Because he could have a texts containing references to cannabis or calls logged to suspect people. If people get the message that they forfeit their "rights" once they dabble in drugs then it might get the right message across.

usernamegoes

How reasonable is this suspicion: "reports of somebody smoking cannabis in a black car". It seems to be this is not that reasonable to justify such an intimate search.

shaunn

Seems very strange, as many others have said don't they have to show their ID? Don't you have the right to refuse until ID is produced? Very odd..

usernamegoes

toptom wrote: »

Its not really when you think of it, Because he could have a texts containing references to cannabis or calls logged to suspect people. If people get the message that they forfeit their "rights" once they dabble in drugs then it might get the right message across.

Well, if they did find such a text that's not a crime. He was searched because he was suspected of smoking cannabis they didn't find any.

Atlantic Dawn

toptom wrote: »

Its not really when you think of it, Because he could have a texts containing references to cannabis or calls logged to suspect people. If people get the message that they forfeit their "rights" once they dabble in drugs then it might get the right message across.

He could have messages in his phone too that said he had aids or something else private. As no drugs were found and the original accusation was for drugs being smoked and not sold the garda should have left it at the search.

Thelomen Toblackai

Having a gawk down someone's jocks and asking them to move their balls in public doesn't seem right whether you consent to it or not. Seems incredibly inappropriate.

Atlantic Dawn

Would the search have been visible on the garage CCTV?

rkrk

i pulled away from the pumps and was at the side of the forecourt about to use my phone while parked. when they said they would be searching me they asked me to move further out of the way and i did. they did say if i would prefer to go to the station to be searched i could be brought and i said no to this.
i had no drugs in my posession and he saw nothing illegal on my phone but he read all my private messages and facebook messenger.they did let me go but i just thought it all happened so quick and i didnt expect it or had given him any reason to suspect me or act suspicious.they didnt give me any i.d. but drove that estate hyundai they use. it just felt very invassive and what i expect to hear of in the states.

usernamegoes

rkrk wrote: »

i pulled away from the pumps and was at the side of the forecourt about to use my phone while parked. when they said they would be searching me they asked me to move further out of the way and i did. they did say if i would prefer to go to the station to be searched i could be brought and i said no to this.
i had no drugs in my posession and he saw nothing illegal on my phone but he read all my private messages and facebook messenger.they did let me go but i just thought it all happened so quick and i didnt expect it or had given him any reason to suspect me or act suspicious.they didnt give me any i.d. but drove that estate hyundai they use. it just felt very invassive and what i expect to hear of in the states.

It sounds very invasive and it would very much upset me. I would hate to be searched like this, the phone is bad enough but the intimate search would very much upset me. You're right to be unhappy with this.

REXER

They probably asked you to move off the fore court to avoid the CCTV. That could be used by you as evidence of a suspect search on their part!

statto25

So you're saying a member of the Gardai asked to see your privates and to move your testicles in a filling station forecourt? Ah stop!

gizmo555

This is a good place to start:

http://www.iccl.ie/welcome-to-the-iccl-know-your-rights-page.html

rkrk

it should be on camera id say, but my thinking was shouldnt he just check the cameras to find the car instead of searching random cars.
if i was parked at the side for half an hour with fogged up windows i would understand that he had reason to stop me but i just pulled in got a tennor petrol nd was leaving

usernamegoes

Presumably when they approached there was no smell of cannabis this should have informed how reasonable their search was.

Diamond Doll

You're sure they were actually the Gardai ...?

Hunter Mahan

It's simple really if you feel aggrieved, make it known to the Ombudsman. That's what they're there for.

Riesen_Meal

statto25 wrote: »

So you're saying a member of the Gardai asked to see your privates and to move your testicles in a filling station forecourt? Ah stop!

Yes, it can happen with reasonable suspicion on the guards behalf, how is that difficult to comprehend?

I would make a complaint to the local sergeant, that's not on at all....

Cops wasting valuable time and resources looking for some hoodah crimelord in a black car smoking a joint, Jesus wept...

The quicker the stuff is decriminalised they may catch some of the real bad dude's...

I've 3 uncles who are guard's, must ask them is this par for the course....

REXER

To be honest the whole search thing seems like a make-up excuse on their part. I bet that there is no record of any phone call at all!

rkrk

usernamegoes wrote: »

Presumably when they approached there was no smell of cannabis this should have informed how reasonable their search was.

no there wasnt a smell of cannabis they pulled in directly next to me to talk to me before they could even smell it if their even was a smell.
they were guards it was d reg hyundai, 2 aerials etc. she took my details and asked me to produce my insurance within 10 days as i just bought the car less then 2 weeks ago and dont have a disc yet but everything else is in order

Dubwat

It doesn't answer your specific questions but the Irish Council for Civil Liberties publish a PDF booklet called "Know Your Rights: Criminal Justice and Garda Powers Pack- 2nd Edition" (June 2014)
Link = http://www.iccl.ie/attachments/download/311/ICCL_KYR_Justice_2014_LR.pdf

As a non-lawyer, I think it's safe to say the Gardai have enough powers to stop and search you if they want to. They know they have the power so best thing is to grin and bear it. The Misuse of Drugs excuse being a prime example as it covers you and your car. It's no consolation but, at least, you got away without a ticket for a bald tyre or broken light or something...

Having said that, I'm surprised they didn't bring you into the petrol station for the 'advanced' body search.

I'd be interested in expert opinions if they have to the power to search your phone without a warrant during a routine/non-emergency search.

usernamegoes

rkrk wrote: »

no there wasnt a smell of cannabis they pulled in directly next to me to talk to me before they could even smell it if their even was a smell.
they were guards it was d reg hyundai, 2 aerials etc. she took my details and asked me to produce my insurance within 10 days as i just bought the car less then 2 weeks ago and dont have a disc yet but everything else is in order

Well the point is, if the suspicion was that someone was smoking week in the car then once they were able to smell there was no smell this should have made any further more invasive search unreasonable.

statto25

Fieldog wrote: »

Yes, it can happen with reasonable suspicion on the guards behalf, how is that difficult to comprehend?

It is difficult to comprehend as a member of our police force asked a member of the public to have a look at their private parts in a public area. If there was a strong enough suspicion that the OP was concealing drugs then they would have been brought to the local gardai station for a proper search. Not a glance down someone's pants at a petrol station, in front of other members of the public. If this is normal procedure then I'm flabbergasted.

rkrk

it sounded instantly like a bs excuse to search me they saw me shopping in the boot my story was sound it was just like they thought they were making bad boys ireland

Riesen_Meal

Reading your FB messenger messages also is a huge invasion of privacy, regardless of the cops good intentions - they must have thought they had caught the General himself....

Jayop

I'm guessing you're a young lad so. Sounds like nothing more than profiling and like someone else said I'd be suspicious of such a report ever really came in to them. Young fella in a Civic and two guards with little to be doing.

Another possibility is that the car could be known to them if you only bought it a few weeks ago. Maybe the past owner was a person if interest to them.