Too few women on radio

suicide_circus

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/newstalk-takes-a-right-hook-for-gender-balance-1.2423358


So a study says 70%+ of voices on Irish radio are male and it is suggested that radio producers do not look at gender balance.

Which will be the first station to put gender equality ahead of commercial expediency?

IRE60

suicide_circus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/newstalk-takes-a-right-hook-for-gender-balance-1.2423358

Which will be the first station to put gender equality ahead of commercial expediency?

Given the options you allow: No station is concerned with gender equality ahead of commercial expediency.

No cash/profit = no station

suicide_circus

Well radio station will hire the presenters who will give top ratings. Are newstalk likely to replace a Sean Moncrieff with a Grainne Seoige in order to achieve gender balance? Or will they just make most of Sean's guests women?

blue4ever

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well radio station will hire the presenters who will give top ratings. Are newstalk likely to replace a Sean Moncrieff with a Grainne Seoige in order to achieve gender balance? Or will they just make most of Sean's guests women?

I don't know where this is off to - they are not mandated to x% of any gender. Would Seoige have the same pull as Moncrieff - I don't think so. So they will find someone with he same appeal as Moncrieffe. If N/T could afford Miriam for that slot as a replacement I'm sure she'd be in the chair.

Again that's not a gender issue - that's a commercial one

bbability

Just added poll to this thread.

loves_to_walk

im still waiting for gender equality to be adressed when it comes to primary school teacher staff

gimmick

Poll should have a "who cares" option.

There is a lot more female presenters today than there was 10 years ago. Might be more again in another 10.

The more I study feminism, the more I think that this kind of gender equality is the exact opposite of what should be happening. There should be no such thing as a gender quota. There are 70+% men on the radio? So what?

Atlantic Dawn

Gender equality in a country where the population is 50/50 is idiotic.

donegal.

i voted no.
i have the radio on all day at work and i'd have no problem with more women on the radio, if they were any good.

while some of the female djs are good (like mary wilson, marian finucane ) some are desperate (louse duffy or the diabolic ruth scott).

the best dj should get the job

loves_to_walk

gender equality and all that jazz is all about the whole " legacy of guilt thing " , because women are severely disadvantaged a century ago , men today are meant to be punished for it

blue4ever

gimmick wrote: »

Poll should have a "who cares" option.

There is a lot more female presenters today than there was 10 years ago. Might be more again in another 10.

I agree, that poll is arse. You can't "shoe horn" in presenters into slots based on their gender. It has to be based on popularity/likeability/skills. If its male - so be it, if its female, so be it.

48% of radio listeners are Male, 52% are female*. Therefore females are the biggest stakeholders in the radio listenership game. Therefore they, as the majority, should vote with their feet (ears) and initiate change - should they want it, not have it imposed via some quota system.

*National figures JNLR 2015Q3

Del.Monte

What about more immigrants or LGBT presenters? :rolleyes:

DEFTLEFTHAND

Best person should get the job. I find these quotas kind of insulting towards women, it's like saying to them you need to be given a place because you'll never get there on your own merit.

Isn't it called 'reverse sexism' or something?

suicide_circus

I expect this righteous crusade to pervade every facet of society. Subtle social engineering based on the edicts of small number of vocal ideologues. Tokenism at its worst. As pointed out above, the majority of radio listeners are women. I would say the main stumbling block for women broadcasters is a lack of talent. Other than Aine Lawlor, Mary Wilson, Marian Finucane, Jenny Green and Pearl from Phantom the majority of female radio hosts are pretty awful. That said, the majority of males aren't great either!

I go back to Christopher Hitchens argument about why there are very few great female comedians - women don't need to be funny, they will be able to get sex anyway. It is much harder for a man to have sex when he can't make a woman laugh. There are of course great female comedians but their act is almost always a male archetypal one such as the neurotic jew or the jolly fatso.

I think there COULD be an element of this in radio. To me a great presenter will drop in a subtle witticism that brings a smile and keeps me listening, I'm thinking John Peel, John Humphreys, John Creedon, John Kenny, Terry Wogan, Gay Byrne, Sean Moncrieff, Fionn Davenport amongst others.

loves_to_walk

suicide_circus wrote: »

I expect this righteous crusade to pervade every facet of society. Subtle social engineering based on the edicts of small number of vocal ideologues. Tokenism at its worst. As pointed out above, the majority of radio listeners are women. I would say the main stumbling block for women broadcasters is a lack of talent. Other than Aine Lawlor, Mary Wilson, Marian Finucane, Jenny Green and Pearl from Phantom the majority of female radio hosts are pretty awful. That said, the majority of males aren't great either!

I go back to Christopher Hitchens argument about why there are very few great female comedians - women don't need to be funny, they will be able to get sex anyway. It is much harder for a man to have sex when he can't make a woman laugh. There are of course great female comedians but their act is almost always a male archetypal one such as the neurotic jew or the jolly fatso.

I think there COULD be an element of this in radio. To me a great presenter will drop in a subtle witticism that brings a smile and keeps me listening, I'm thinking John Peel, John Humphreys, John Creedon, John Kenny, Terry Wogan, Gay Byrne, Sean Moncrieff, Fionn Davenport amongst others.

out of the five female broadcasters you list , the first three are awful and i dont recognise one of them

suicide_circus

loves_to_walk wrote: »

out of the five female broadcasters you list , the first three are awful and i dont recognise one of them

That's me told! Who are the good female radio presenters?

Firewalkwithme

suicide_circus wrote: »

That's me told! Who are the good female radio presenters?

Kelly Anne Byrne on TXFM is excellent. Really knows her music. They also have Claire Beck during the daytime who is pretty good too.

suicide_circus

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Kelly Anne Byrne on TXFM is excellent. Really knows her music. They also have Claire Beck during the daytime who is pretty good too.

Don't listen to TX, I'll have to give them a whirl

soc160

suicide_circus wrote: »

I expect this righteous crusade to pervade every facet of society. Subtle social engineering based on the edicts of small number of vocal ideologues. Tokenism at its worst. As pointed out above, the majority of radio listeners are women. I would say the main stumbling block for women broadcasters is a lack of talent. Other than Aine Lawlor, Mary Wilson, Marian Finucane, Jenny Green and Pearl from Phantom the majority of female radio hosts are pretty awful. That said, the majority of males aren't great either!

I go back to Christopher Hitchens argument about why there are very few great female comedians - women don't need to be funny, they will be able to get sex anyway. It is much harder for a man to have sex when he can't make a woman laugh. There are of course great female comedians but their act is almost always a male archetypal one such as the neurotic jew or the jolly fatso.

I think there COULD be an element of this in radio. To me a great presenter will drop in a subtle witticism that brings a smile and keeps me listening, I'm thinking John Peel, John Humphreys, John Creedon, John Kenny, Terry Wogan, Gay Byrne, Sean Moncrieff, Fionn Davenport amongst others.

There's alot more (or less) to presenting radio than just dropping in some wit though, particularly on music driven stations. The majority of these presenters are juat dj's who do clubs and I see far less women then I do men at gigs so it's kind of natural that more males make it? Outside of the national stations, the locals make up a larger pool of presenters and different voices and I could name plenty on air in dublin. I think there's a broader debate to be had but token jobs are never the answer and don't help the situation, having said that its not exactly a major concern is it? The article makes a nice observation about the lack of female voices but it's an observation anyone could make.


How does it compare to other radio markets?

loves_to_walk

suicide_circus wrote: »

That's me told! Who are the good female radio presenters?

most male broadcasters on irish radio are equally awful

jonathan healy being especially insufferable

Harry Angstrom

suicide_circus wrote: »

That's me told! Who are the good female radio presenters?

Marian Finucane was a top class broadcaster in her day, but in recent years she's just been going through the motions. Rachael English and Audrey Carville are excellent broadcasters, while Lilian Smith should be given the full time gig on Late Date because she's far better than anybody else in that slot. Gender quotas in any sphere of life are ridiculous. People should be hired on their merit - be they male, female, or the current flavour of the month "gender fluid".

suicide_circus

loves_to_walk wrote: »

most male broadcasters on irish radio are equally awful

jonathan healy being especially insufferable

Agreed on Healy, total clickbait artist

Del.Monte

I can't stand Rachel English as for Mammy.....

Declan A Walsh

I have no intention of getting into an argument about gender balance quotas.

I just wanted to comment on some posts.

One poster referred to Mary Wilson and Marion Finucane as "djs"! Unless they host music-driven programs, I don't think they are deejays!! Broadcasters or presenters would be more appropriate.

As regards Pearl, she left Phantom in 2012. By the way, for the benefit of Suicide Circus, TXFM used to be called Phantom! Other female presenters on TXFM besides Kelly-Anne and Claire are Esther Moore O'Donoghue, Orla Donnelly (AFAIK still there), Tara Harrison and Nadine O'Regan... and not forgetting Charlotte Flood (which I did!).

Radio Nova currently has the following female presenters: Dee Woods, Sinead Ni Mhordha and Adrienne O'Hora.

Del.Monte

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

I have no intention of getting into an argument about gender balance quotas.

I just wanted to comment on some posts.

One poster referred to Mary Wilson and Marion Finucane as "djs"! Unless they host music-driven programs, I don't think they are deejays!! Broadcasters or presenters would be more appropriate.

As regards Pearl, she left Phantom in 2012. By the way, for the benefit of Suicide Circus, TXFM used to be called Phantom! Other female presenters on TXFM besides Kelly-Anne and Claire are Esther Moore O'Donoghue, Orla Donnelly (AFAIK still there), Tara Harrison and Nadine O'Regan

Radio Nova currently has the following female presenters: Dee Woods, Sinead Ni Mhordha and Adrienne O'Hora.

How about 'Jumped-up DJs' like Pat Kenny.

kneemos

Heard about this earlier and was trying to think of a good female presenter,as others have said Mary Wilson and Marian when she shows up is about it.
We need to accept men and women have different talents and gender equality isn't always a good idea.

Faugheen

Surely there's more female news readers/journalists than there is male?

There is on Newstalk anyway. Pretty sure their main readers in the morning, afternoon and evening are predominantly female. Helen Vaughan and Susan Kehoe on Today FM too. Pretty sure I've never heard a male do news in Spin (I'm not counting that entertainment segment they call news either) and I'm sure there's others I can't think of.

Don't see them shouting for gender equality in that sense, do you?

EDIT: Just to point out, I'm not saying there should be more male newsreaders or anything like that, just simply pointing out there's more females than males that do news.

catch--22

Faugheen wrote: »

Surely there's more female news readers/journalists than there is male?



Don't see them shouting for gender equality in that sense, do you?

Women are just better journalists than men I suppose. Of course there some good men journalists on the radio but for the most part they're rubbish.

Faugheen

catch--22 wrote: »

Women are just better journalists than men I suppose. Of course there some good men journalists on the radio but for the most part they're rubbish.

Exactly, and for the most part, men are better DJ's/presenters.

LostinBlanch

It's not like Newstalk haven't tried female presenters in prominent shows, and if the audience numbers were good they'd still be there.

I can think of (not in any chronological order)

Norah Casey in breakfast - just didn't work.
Claire Byrne - moved to RTE.
Orla Barry was on mid morning then moved to late night arts show.
Brenda Power was mid morning then replaced by Tom Dunne.
Sile Seoige - again just didn't work.

That's not to forget the female presenters at weekends, some of them very good, but in niche shows. So it's not like they don't have female presenters but just that the numbers don't add up. Otherwise Newstalk would have them front and centre.

Could you imagine let's say, the breakfast show presented by Dil Wickramsinghe? I'd say any station putting on a show like that in primetime would be committing commercial suicide as the numbers would plummet.

Still that won't stop studies like this bemoaning the fact that there aren't enough female voices on radio like . . . . female gender studies academics or ex academics. So it's basically bemoaning the fact that there aren't jobs for the girls.

sheesh

suicide_circus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/newstalk-takes-a-right-hook-for-gender-balance-1.2423358


So a study says 70%+ of voices on Irish radio are male and it is suggested that radio producers do not look at gender balance.

Which will be the first station to put gender equality ahead of commercial expediency?

well obviously it should be the state broadcaster!

Preset No.3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA

soc160

The actual research is based on 3 stations and covers news and current affairs, now I'm no researcher but this is a ridiculously small sample size, it also seems to focus on contributers and then reporters rather than presenters.I'm sure the actual report gives the details without any spin. Very sweeping statement though to say that " females are simply not being allowed on air". Can you really punish producers for using male experts or impose a rule stating they need to balance it?

IRE60

soc160 wrote: »

The actual research is based on 3 stations and covers news and current affairs, now I'm no researcher but this is a ridiculously small sample size, it also seems to focus on contributers and then reporters rather than presenters.I'm sure the actual report gives the details without any spin. Very sweeping statement though to say that " females are simply not being allowed on air". Can you really punish producers for using male experts or impose a rule stating they need to balance it?

soc160: Thanks for pointing out the 'flaw' in the research! Three stations - seriously we cant possibly base any firm understanding of gender balance/imbalance based on a study of three stations. It's very myopic.

LostinBlanch

IRE60 wrote: »

soc160: Thanks for pointing out the 'flaw' in the research! Three stations - seriously we cant possibly base any firm understanding of gender balance/imbalance based on a study of three stations. It's very myopic.

Myopic or not, it's still being used to beat the quotas drum as evidenced by this plea for jobs for the girls by Alison O'Connor.

Note the implied threat at the end for Newstalk.

NIMAN

Everytime I hear Lottie Ryan chatting, I think there is at least one woman too many on radio.

More Music

Most producers/researchers on current affairs and talk shows in Ireland are female. So now.

More female council workers, more female garbage disposal workers, more female ESB/eircom "linesmen", more female drain/septic tank staff.

I also have a problem with the amount of female receptionists. There should be a male quota for this.

colinod0806

More Music wrote: »

I also have a problem with the amount of female receptionists. There should be a male quota for this.

Don't be silly. Equality is for women, not men.

muggles

I always assumed it was because listeners preferred a male voice (or lower registered voice) than that of a female. Except in the reading of the news where female voice was found acceptable.

L1011

muggles wrote: »

I always assumed it was because listeners preferred a male voice (or lower registered voice) than that of a female. Except in the reading of the news where female voice was found acceptable.

Some of the more succesful female presenters have relatively deep voices as well - Rachel English and Jenny Greene for example.

suicide_circus

L1011 wrote: »

Some of the more succesful female presenters have relatively deep voices as well - Rachel English and Jenny Greene for example.

I wonder are we evolutionarily predisposed to dislike shrill voices?