M7/N7 Inbound Traffic congestion

Dubliner28

Hi all

Has anyone noticed a significant increase in volumes/congestion in the morning rush hour (7am-9am) on the M7/N7.

Okay there was a crash yesterday but my normal commute of around 45-50mins now takes well over an hour for the past two weeks.

There just seems to be a massive back log after Newbridge & the M9 merge? Is it just volumes?

I would have taught that 2 lanes going into 3 would ease things.

Is it people driving too close to each other or weather conditions getting people into their cars.

Vic_08

Dubliner28 wrote: »

Hi all

Has anyone noticed a significant increase in volumes/congestion in the morning rush hour (7am-9am) on the M7/N7.

Okay there was a crash yesterday but my normal commute of around 45-50mins now takes well over an hour for the past two weeks.

There just seems to be a massive back log after Newbridge & the M9 merge? Is it just volumes?

I would have taught that 2 lanes going into 3 would ease things.

Why would it? Nobody moves over to lane 1, do you? I'm betting no.

In answer to your question; more unsustainable single occupancy car commuting. You (and others doing the same as you) are the cause.

Cue calls for more roads, wider roads because that has worked brilliantly so far.

SoupyNorman

Yeah Monday and this morning have been the worst so far this year.

I am not seeing any quick fixes other then temporary speed limits during rush hours but at the end of the day the hive mind takes over on Irish roads. Christ, I cant even leave a safe gap between me and the car in front without someone thinking it looks like a cosy little place to be.

It would be great if companies could be incentivised to allow more flexitime allowing for a dilution of the commuters that hit the road at the same time (me included). I started commuting up the M7/N7 in June and I used to curse the traffic then, sure it was only great compared to the winter traffic and we havnt even had the roads ice up yet, oh what fun.

Incidentally, would anyone know what the traffic would be like about 9:30/9:45am. I could potentially start at 10am and finish at 7pm with the hope of avoiding the mad traffic.

munchkin_utd

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Yeah Monday and this morning have been the worst so far this year.
<snip>

Thats normal though and i remember hearing years ago that some of these weeks in the Autumn are simply the busiest on the roads.
I was trying to figure why, seeing as theres nothing on, but thats the point.

Nobody is on sun holiday, nobody is on ski holiday. Christmas is round the corner so people are getting their end of year deadlines filled, liasing with customers or whatever.

It was on the radio there that November is the quietest month for flights from Ireland, which shows that its the month that the least people are off work, which means the most people possible are commuting.

_Kaiser_

Vic_08 wrote: »

Why would it? Nobody moves over to lane 1, do you? I'm betting no.

In answer to your question; more unsustainable single occupancy car commuting. You (and others doing the same as you) are the cause.

Cue calls for more roads, wider roads because that has worked brilliantly so far.

Rather than getting very defensive, let's look at the causes...

- People are being priced out of Dublin but their jobs are still there (it's like 2005 all over again!)

- Unless you're making a very simple A-B journey, public transport takes a lot longer and is probably not much cheaper. Try getting to Sandyford or Mulhuddart from Kildare town on public transport. Now multiply that by 5 times a week and tell me it's a runner.

Until/unless the Government encourage companies to locate elsewhere by providing infrastructure and services for the company and employees and/or build - directly and indirectly - enough houses within the M50 to give people affordable places to live, then traffic and congestion will continue to be a factor.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Commuting the N7 and M50 is a twice daily automotive procession to determine who are that days f'ing idiots driving too close to the car in front.

As evident on the N7 this morning, at least six drivers occupying what they no doubt refer to as the 'fast lane' learned that it was their turn.

The futility of a three lane carriageway in Ireland due to driver ignorance has been discussed at length on here, but concerning the backup up of traffic seen daily from the M9/M7 junction to Naas north, I'm wondering would scheduled speed limit reductions work? (if they were enforcable, average speed cameras?)

While in my opinion, sheer volume of traffic is a major cause of this, people driving too close to the car in front, constantly tipping the brakes causing a concertina effect, not using the available space for merging instead racing right to the end before coming to a halt and clumsily trying to merge causing traffic to slow/stop etc. etc. are all major contributors to the problem too and you would imagine that if all traffic speed was reduced along this section it would help? I've read of such speed limit reductions working on major motorways in England for example

IE 222

Roadworks

Not sure if its still the case or if there is any on you're route but could be indirectly. November was notorious for them as there's a ban on these during December. Its a case of, use it or lose it, council funding which is revalued soon for the following year.

Plus colder weather and people not going away as mentioned.

Jamie2k9

Cue calls for more roads, wider roads because that has worked brilliantly so far.

To be fair have 3 motorways merge into one doesn't require a bright spark to see a big part of the problem here. 6 lanes into 2 before you get 3 lanes.

delahuntv

Here's a tip.

Pull off motorway at Kildare town. (never any traffic at the junctions in the morning) Stop for a minute. Check AA Roadwatch for traffic issues.

If the M7 is showing red beyond Newbridge and to the Naas south exit (as it does most wet Mondays), here's your slution.

Back onto M7, get off at Newbridge junction, drive over motorway and take 1st exit and drive along by Curragh towards Athgarvan/Kilcullen. 2 Km onwards you'll come to Athgarvan national school (ramps on road). Here, vere left towards Athgarvan itself. At light next to Athgarvan Inn, go straight through and continue for 2km where you will see Newbridge Rugby Club.

about 200m past the rugby club turn left (its slightly concealed, so you may miss the turn if not watching). This road will bring you all the way down to pfizer o the Naas/Newbridge road. Turn right at the end of this road and about 5km along you can rejoin the M7.

Last Monday it took me 12 minutes at steady pace to do this.

shawnxxiong

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Incidentally, would anyone know what the traffic would be like about 9:30/9:45am. I could potentially start at 10am and finish at 7pm with the hope of avoiding the mad traffic.

Used to commute around that time, much better.

SoupyNorman

shawnxxiong wrote: »

Used to commute around that time, much better.

I’m trialing it now, left at 10 am this morning and sailed in. My trip is 75km each way daily. The distance does not bother me so much (as I’m all motorway) it’s the traffic and it’s not the volume it’s just dealing with the maniacs in rush hour. It was so relaxing driving up this morning as it was bright and the roads were quiet. Interesting to see how things are when I leave at 7pm.

shawnxxiong

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I’m trialing it now, left at 10 am this morning and sailed in. My trip is 75km each way daily. The distance does not bother me so much (as I’m all motorway) it’s the traffic and it’s not the volume it’s just dealing with the maniacs in rush hour. It was so relaxing driving up this morning as it was bright and the roads were quiet. Interesting to see how things are when I leave at 7pm.

As long as there's no accident (big assumption, I know), it's quite similar to after 9.30 am.

savagethegoat

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

To be fair have 3 motorways merge into one doesn't require a bright spark to see a big part of the problem here. 6 lanes into 2 before you get 3 lanes.

and the three lanes comprise two driving lanes and an empty one often....should be the right hand one empty though, not the left one...

delahuntv

savagethegoat wrote: »

and the three lanes comprise two driving lanes and an empty one often....should be the right hand one empty though, not the left one...

I assume you are talking about the n7 dual carriageway - i checked into this for someone, anf whilst to be pedantic drivers should use the left lane, but it simply is not realistic for most motorists as between road entrances, exits including junctions, fuel station, farm gates etc. you have 43 from naas ball to newlands cross.

Add in that many trucks and busses use the left lane, a normal car journey at 90km/hr off peak would see a lane change 12 times on average in that short journey - and more at busier times.

Hence, you could argue that a motorist driving at a normal speed on that stretch is safer to keep to the middle lane.

Jamie2k9

savagethegoat wrote: »

and the three lanes comprise two driving lanes and an empty one often....should be the right hand one empty though, not the left one...

Fully agree and the congestion on both this and the M50 is man made with the utter incompetence of 99% of motorway users. Driving tests need to be taken to 21st century.

savagethegoat

delahuntv wrote: »

I assume you are talking about the n7 dual carriageway - i checked into this for someone, anf whilst to be pedantic drivers should use the left lane, but it simply is not realistic for most motorists as between road entrances, exits including junctions, fuel station, farm gates etc. you have 43 from naas ball to newlands cross.

Add in that many trucks and busses use the left lane, a normal car journey at 90km/hr off peak would see a lane change 12 times on average in that short journey - and more at busier times.

Hence, you could argue that a motorist driving at a normal speed on that stretch is safer to keep to the middle lane.

safer? 12 lane changes is nothing if you are able to drive properly. If people hog the middle lane because they feel it is safer, then that's admission of incompetent driving. Use the mirrors, use the indicators properly and there is no danger.

delahuntv

savagethegoat wrote: »

safer? 12 lane changes is nothing if you are able to drive properly. If people hog the middle lane because they feel it is safer, then that's admission of incompetent driving. Use the mirrors, use the indicators properly and there is no danger.

For driving at or close to speed limit - yes its safer amd more reasonable to drive in middle lane. Only assholes speeding above speed limit and undertaking would actually be affected.

If you are driving at 80km or less, then inner lane would be most suitable as you are about same speed as bus and trucks.

savagethegoat

anyone agree with that?

Vic_08

savagethegoat wrote: »

anyone agree with that?

No. It is utter crap.

You are correct that it is just another one of the excuses made by crap drivers to excuse their incompetent and selfish behaviour.

I must have driven the 3 lane section of the N7 at least 2000 times at work and despite not exceeding the speed limit I would say I passed at least a dozen middle lane hoggers on average per trip. I still found it perfectly possible to drive the majority of the journey in lane 1 on most occasions bar very heavy traffic with continuous queues.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

delahuntv wrote: »

For driving at or close to speed limit - yes its safer amd more reasonable to drive in middle lane. Only assholes speeding above speed limit and undertaking would actually be affected.

If you are driving at 80km or less, then inner lane would be most suitable as you are about same speed as bus and trucks.

FFS, such cluelessness. Have you no idea of the problems ignorant driving like yours causes?

Carawaystick

delahuntv wrote: »

... a normal car journey at 90km/hr off peak would see a lane change 12 times on average in that short journey - and more at busier times. .

Seems like you are overtaking 6 vehicles from Naas to Dublin or vice versa?

Either you are a wum or haven't thought this through.

trellheim

This is my commute once a week outside rush hour and I spend most of it in Lane 1 usually untroubled by any other cars , while Lane 3 is for those who need a blood pressure boost. I am surprised there is not more accidents than there is TBH

Lane 2 hoggers are dangerous as they just sail along and mess it up for the people who are doing it right.

delahuntv

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

FFS, such cluelessness. Have you no idea of the problems ignorant driving like yours causes?

I'll have a wild guess that either you haven't read and understood my post or you are unable to understand it.

Yes SLOW vehicles doing less than 80kmh should stay in inner lane BUT cars doing 90kmh / 100kmh which is the speed limit would find it far safer to drive normally in the middle lane.

Lane changing is one major cause of accidents - the pedantic aholes who "show off" moving to inner lane, then darting out to outerlane to pass a car in the middle lane and then dart back to inner lane in a "watch me do it right" moronic form is one of the more dangerous motorists on the road


Please don't tell me you are one of these?

savagethegoat

delahuntv wrote: »

I'll have a wild guess that either you haven't read and understood my post or you are unable to understand it.

Yes SLOW vehicles doing less than 80kmh should stay in inner lane BUT cars doing 90kmh / 100kmh which is the speed limit would find it far safer to drive normally in the middle lane.

Lane changing is one major cause of accidents - the pedantic aholes who "show off" moving to inner lane, then darting out to outerlane to pass a car in the middle lane and then dart back to inner lane in a "watch me do it right" moronic form is one of the more dangerous motorists on the road


Please don't tell me you are one of these?

those guys are driving correctly and it's people like you blocking up the middle lane that cause congestion. People driving correctly and changing lanes when they should do not cause accidents.
Don't you realise that by blocking the centre lane you are actually forcing others to change lane which you claim is so dangerous?

delahuntv

savagethegoat wrote: »

those guys are driving correctly and it's people like you blocking up the middle lane that cause congestion. People driving correctly and changing lanes when they should do not cause accidents.
Don't you realise that by blocking the centre lane you are actually forcing others to change lane which you claim is so dangerous?

Maybe actually READ the post FULLY -

From rules of the road
On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

markpb

delahuntv wrote:

From rules of the road On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

The traffic has to be near or beside you in lane 1 so you're constantly overtaking. It's not enough to stay in the middle lane just because you get a feeling that somewhere on your trip there might be a guy doing 5kph less than you

Vic_08

delahuntv wrote: »

Maybe actually READ the post FULLY -

From rules of the road
On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

Those "pedantic aholes" wouldn't be able to return to lane 1 in front of you if there was traffic in it, as they are moving faster than you there is more than enough space for you to also move left.

It is rather hypocritical to accuse others of driving dangerously when they are forced to change lanes unnecessarily to get around you.

highdef

delahuntv wrote: »

Yes SLOW vehicles doing less than 80kmh should stay in inner lane BUT cars doing 90kmh / 100kmh which is the speed limit would find it far safer to drive normally in the middle lane.

Heavy goods vehicles can travel at up to 90kmph hour, coaches can travel at up to 100kmph. Both types of vehicles will almost always be driving at their top speed on roads such as the n7. This leaves very few vehicles left driving at 80 or less so it should be very easy to drive in the left lane and only move the other relevant lanes when overtaking, as lane 1 should, by your theory, be fairly empty. Unfortunately it does not work that way because of people like you.

savagethegoat

delahuntv wrote: »

Maybe actually READ the post FULLY -

From rules of the road
On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

suggest you read the rules of the road fully!

Truckermal

highdef wrote: »

Heavy goods vehicles can travel at up to 90kmph hour, coaches can travel at up to 100kmph. Both types of vehicles will almost always be driving at their top speed on roads such as the n7. This leaves very few vehicles left driving at 80 or less so it should be very easy to drive in the left lane and only move the other relevant lanes when overtaking, as lane 1 should, by your theory, be fairly empty. Unfortunately it does not work that way because of people like you.

True I only use it once a week in truck but remain in lane 1 and turn on the cruise control at 90KPH and its amazing the amount of cars that remain in lane 2 driving below my speed..

In rush hour traffic I travel faster than the cars in lane 3..:)

_Kaiser_

The moralising is strong in this thread!

As I posted over in the M50 one, I drive both roads daily and while the N7 is not as congested as the M50, during peak times ALL lanes effectively become traffic lanes as they rightly should due to the heavy volumes.

In my experience most people are incapable of driving at 100 km/h when the conditions warrant it, and so you'd be forever switching lanes between 1 and 2 if you were to blindly adhere to the "rules" rather than the actual driving conditions. As such I generally cruise steadily between 2 and 3, rarely held up and never holding anyone up. If that means "sitting" in lane 3 while overtaking a steady procession of slower traffic to my left then that's what I'll do, and I'll move left when I deem it appropriate to do so... certainly not to accommodate some tailgating asshat for example!

Incidentally, technically all those people sitting in the left lane passing traffic on their right are committing an offence. Undertaking is illegal, and while the same rules are helpfully vague on what slow-moving traffic means, it doesn't extend to cars doing 70 km/h+ at the same time.

Truckermal

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Incidentally, technically all those people sitting in the left lane passing traffic on their right are committing an offence. Undertaking is illegal, and while the same rules are helpfully vague on what slow-moving traffic means, it doesn't extend to cars doing 70 km/h+ at the same time.

So what would be the correct coarse of action here, should I slow down to 70 km/h and delay everyone behind me???

_Kaiser_

Truckermal wrote: »

So what would be the correct coarse of action here, should I slow down to 70 km/h and delay everyone behind me???

Nope, if following the Rules you're supposed to overtake them instead.. easy enough in a car but not a 40 footer I grant you.

Ridiculous but those are the Rules and if we're abiding by the "keep left/don't hog the middle/right lane" one we should also comply with the "no undertaking" one.

In reality you are of course doing the most sensible thing but then you could argue so are those who rather than weaving between lane 1 and 2/3 every hundred metres, just continue on steadily.

However, IMO this applies only to 3-lane roads like the M50 or N7, or busy sections of say the M1 to Swords where ALL lanes are busy and become effectively driving lanes. Once the traffic opens out you should of course move left unless overtaking.

pajero12

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope, if following the Rules you're supposed to overtake them instead.. easy enough in a car but not a 40 footer I grant you.

]

If we are strictly cohering to the law,
Wouldn't that be illegal in a truck anyways?

Truckermal

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope, if following the Rules you're supposed to overtake them instead.. easy enough in a car but not a 40 footer I grant you.

Ridiculous but those are the Rules and if we're abiding by the "keep left/don't hog the middle/right lane" one we should also comply with the "no undertaking" one.

In reality you are of course doing the most sensible thing but then you could argue so are those who rather than weaving between lane 1 and 2/3 every hundred metres, just continue on steadily.

However, IMO this applies only to 3-lane roads like the M50 or N7, or busy sections of say the M1 to Swords where ALL lanes are busy and become effectively driving lanes. Once the traffic opens out you should of course move left unless overtaking.

Funnily enough I was just doing a bit of research on it and Undertaking is where a motorist moves from lane 3 to lane 2 or lane 2 to lane 1 but staying in lane 1 at a constant speed is not an offence!!!!

_Kaiser_

pajero12 wrote: »

If we are strictly cohering to the law,
Wouldn't that be illegal in a truck anyways?

Did they not change that, or was that only for buses? I certainly see lots of trucks in the outside lane further down the M7 anyway on a daily basis.

If you're right though then yes I suppose by the letter of the law he should probably be slowing down/keeping pace and letting others overtake both him and the car beside him.

My point though is that the "letter of the law" isn't always sensible (or indeed safe) in real-world situations and in those cases it's far more important I think to drive to the conditions (traffic, visibility, surface conditions etc) than obsessing about the "rules".

_Kaiser_

Truckermal wrote: »

Funnily enough I was just doing a bit of research on it and Undertaking is where a motorist moves from lane 3 to lane 2 or lane 2 to lane 1 but staying in lane 1 at a constant speed is not an offence!!!!

That makes even less sense.. at what point are you judged to have "undertaken" then I wonder? 50m back, 100m? 300m? Those distances are rapidly covered at 100 km/h

I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out how ridiculous it is.

pajero12

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Did they not change that, or was that only for buses? I certainly see lots of trucks in the outside lane further down the M7 anyway on a daily basis.

If you're right though then yes I suppose by the letter of the law he should probably be slowing down/keeping pace and letting others overtake both him and the car beside him.

My point though is that the "letter of the law" isn't always sensible (or indeed safe) in real-world situations and in those cases it's far more important I think to drive to the conditions (traffic, visibility, surface conditions etc) than obsessing about the "rules".

I think it's just for busses that was amended but someone will know better than me. As far as I know it still states that in laymans terms a Truck cant travel in the rightmost lane effectively meaning it can't overtake on the majority or motorways.

Truckermal

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That makes even less sense.. at what point are you judged to have "undertaken" then I wonder? 50m back, 100m? 300m? Those distances are rapidly covered at 100 km/h

I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out how ridiculous it is.

I know well I suppose I join the red cow in lane 1 but technically the N7 begins in the city centre so who knows..:p

GM228

pajero12 wrote: »

I think it's just for busses that was amended but someone will know better than me. As far as I know it still states that in laymans terms a Truck cant travel in the rightmost lane effectively meaning it can't overtake on the majority or motorways.

I've covered that topic on another thread, below are the rules from my posting on that thread:-

Vehicles which are limited to 90 km/h (by law, not by design) such as trucks, buses etc must not enter the rightmost lane of motorways and are thus only permitted to overtake on a motorway with three or more lanes. They can only enter the lane on the right if there is an obstruction on the left lanes. This applies to motorways only and not dual carriageways

Certain buses can travel at 100 km/h (i.e types not designed for standing passengers) on a motorway and so can overtake, carrs/vans etc towing a trailer can not overtake on the rightmost lane either!

Truckermal

Your wrong as cars towing a trailer can only do 80 km/h also what do you interpret as an obstruction if a truck catches up to a tractor in Cork doing 50 km/h surely he is entitled to pass!! Now don't get me wrong it drives me bananas to see two lorries side by side for ages trying to pass..

Sorry mods I'm after throwing this thread way off topic, well Kaiser did...:D

GM228

Truckermal wrote: »

Your wrong as cars towing a trailer can only do 80 km/h also what do you interpret as an obstruction if a truck catches up to a tractor in Cork doing 50 km/h surely he is entitled to pass!! Now don't get me wrong it drives me bananas to see two lorries side by side for ages trying to pass..

Sorry mods I'm after throwing this thread way off topic, well Kaiser did...:D

Sorry should be vans (subject to certain conditions ), not cars, re-worded it!

Traffic is not an obstruction!