Chain/Cassette life?

Daroxtar

Just wondering what kind of lifespan would you expect to get from an Ultegra 11 speed chain and cassette? I have about 5000km on mine, I'm not too heavy or powerful and try to avoid cross chaining. The chain gets cleaned and lubed every weekend if possible.
There are no visible signs of wear on the cassette.
Reason for asking is the mechanic told me my chain was about 50% worn and I'd need a new one and cassette soon.

Also, would I benefit from changing from the standard Ultegra chain to a KMC or KCNC? Or would there be any issue with shifting?

G1032

I clean chain after every cycle in the wet and every couple of spins in the dry.
I can get only about 4,000 km out of a chain. I can't imagine a chain only 50% worn after 5,000km.

Cassettes should last a lot longer than a chain, probably 4-5 times the mileage?? Open to correction here.

No difference in shifting with a KMC chain. I've a KMC chain on the bike at the moment. Comes with the quick link so easy to remove if necessary

Wishbone Ash

Can't understand how you can get 5,000kms out of a chain! :eek:

I'd be lucky to get 2-3,000.

I also use KMC chains because of the quick link.

Alek

I get 3000-4000km off my chains, but I don't clean them almost at all, just wipe and relube when getting squeaky.

I check them from time to time with a simple chain wear tool - as soon as they are between 0.75% and 1% elongation, I replace them.

This way I am still on the original cassette after 15000km+, it has no signs of wear and still shifts smoothly.

Seweryn

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Can't understand how you can get 5,000kms out of a chain! :eek:

I'd be lucky to get 2-3,000.

I also use KMC chains because of the quick link.

I use KMC 10-speed chains and I regularly get 7 - 11k km from them.

Alek

I use KMC 10-speed chains and I regularly get 7 - 11k km from them.

Are you running them until the cassette is worn out completely (starts skipping) and then replace both?

Daroxtar

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Can't understand how you can get 5,000kms out of a chain! :eek:

I'd be lucky to get 2-3,000.

You must go through a chain every fortnight!

Seriously though, would that suggest that the original Ultegra chain has better longevity than the KMC so?

gambeta_fc

I got ~4600km out of an Ultegra 11 speed, got it changed out just a couple of weeks ago.

I'd wipe the chain and relube after most rides, give the chain and cassette a decent clean then about every 4 weeks.

FWIW the LBS recommended an 11 speed SRAM chain to replace it, said he'll change the cassette when the next chain goes on.

tomasrojo

I more than doubled the life of chains by adding a mudflap to the front mudguard.

I understand that a chain case can extend it even further, but I guess you have to have a single-speed/hub-gear bike to use one of those.

Wishbone Ash

tomasrojo wrote: »

I more than doubled the life of chains by adding a mudflap to the front mudguard....

I don't use mudguards and ride in all conditions so I suppose that explains my chains' shorter life.

tomasrojo

Yeah, mud/rain/grit soup is the real chain killer. Rainwater from above isn't so bad.

Seweryn

Alek wrote: »

Are you running them until the cassette is worn out completely (starts skipping) and then replace both?

No, only until the 0.75% chain wear or so.

Alek

No, only until the 0.75% chain wear or so.

Amazing mileage then. Do you clean it often?

07Lapierre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd be lucky to get 2-3,000.

Something seriously wrong there! Considering the weekly cycling you do, you must be buying a new chain every few weeks!

Seweryn

Alek wrote: »

Amazing mileage then. Do you clean it often?

Not really, maybe 3 to 4 times during the lifespan of a chain. But I wipe and lubricate it every second day when I am on the bike.
The cassette normally lasts 3 chains, same with the chainrings.

Wishbone Ash

07Lapierre wrote: »

Something seriously wrong there! Considering the weekly cycling you do, you must be buying a new chain every few weeks!

I was just out in the shed!

My most recent purchase (Kardan K7) has 2,700kms on it and the Ultegra chain which came with it is well beyond the .75% mark and close to 1%.

Just checked the other bikes also - the Ridley commuter/hacker (KMC chain) is well worn - way beyond the 1% :eek: so I'll do that tomorrow.

The KMC chain on the Fuji all rounder was changed last week.

That leaves the fixie - don't know how to measure wear on it but it's a much sturdier chain anyway.

Perhaps I'm over-cleaning the chains?

crosstownk

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perhaps I'm over-cleaning the chains?

I can't see how cleaning would contribute to accelerating chain wear. The only thing I can think of in that regard is not rinsing the chain of degreaser before re-oiling.

I've almost 5,000km on a Dura Ace chain and 105 5800 cassette and both seem fine. That said, I don't (yet) have a chain measurement tool so I'm relying on performance and visual inspections which lack in accuracy.

ballyharpat

crosstownk wrote: »

I can't see how cleaning would contribute to accelerating chain wear. The only thing I can think of in that regard is not rinsing the chain of degreaser before re-oiling.

I've almost 5,000km on a Dura Ace chain and 105 5800 cassette and both seem fine. That said, I don't (yet) have a chain measurement tool so I'm relying on performance and visual inspections which lack in accuracy.

You can measure the chain using a ruler/measure tape…… 12 inches,

From what I've noticed, people that are heavier, wear chains faster, also mashers tend to put more wear on a chain.

I'm light, I get probably around 3/4000 miles out of a chain and 3 chains out of a cassette. Just an observation, but I could be wrong…..

Wishbone Ash

crosstownk wrote: »

I can't see how cleaning would contribute to accelerating chain wear. The only thing I can think of in that regard is not rinsing the chain of degreaser before re-oiling....

Rinse?.........eh........usually dry it off with a cloth! Is there something I should know?

crosstownk

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Rinse?.........eh........usually dry it off with a cloth! Is there something I should know?

For me it makes no sense to leave degreaser on the chain/component and then apply oil that could be compromised by any remaining degreaser. The degreaser I use rinses off with water and then I dry the chain. I lightly rub a kitchen towel as slowly I spin the chain until the kitchen paper has no trace of residue/black sh1te/dampness. It takes ages.

Bear in mind that I apply a drop of oil to each link in turn when re-oiling so maybe I'm OCD when it comes to cleaning my chain....... But it's like (almost) new after 5,000km.

ford2600

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Rinse?.........eh........usually dry it off with a cloth! Is there something I should know?

No mudguards and long wet rides.

If road is wet it'll take some lube to be still be protecting chain after 200km.

On 300km rides plus I bring a tiny measure of chain lube, but only use if wet road. Noisy chain wrecks my head!

I gave up measuring and change chain at 5000km and change cassette every 3rd chain. Chain rings have 35k km or so and are perfect.

I normally buy 3 ultegra chain on special from Rose for €15 or so, Tiagra cassette year sorted for €60.

Mudguards make a massive difference with grime on drivetrain

Wishbone Ash

ford2600 wrote: »

No mudguards and long wet rides.

If road is wet it'll take some lube to be still be protecting chain after 200km

I always take a small tube of chain oil with me on long rides. Don't always have to use it though - the last time was on a very wet ride to north Cork a couple of weeks ago and before that, it was on Liege Bastogne Liege where I had to re-lube twice.

(I'll have to get a bike with mudguards - perhaps for winter 2016/2017 ).

crosstownk

I wouldn't be a fan of lubing the chain without cleaning it first. Oil + crud = paste which makes for a fantastic cutting compound. However, if you're out on a long, wet spin then maybe a relube might be worth while. Cleaning the chain should follow shortly after the well deserved shower and before any pints or pasta are consumed

Daroxtar

crosstownk wrote: »

For me it makes no sense to leave degreaser on the chain/component and then apply oil that could be compromised by any remaining degreaser. The degreaser I use rinses off with water and then I dry the chain. I lightly rub a kitchen towel as slowly I spin the chain until the kitchen paper has no trace of residue/black sh1te/dampness. It takes ages.

Bear in mind that I apply a drop of oil to each link in turn when re-oiling so maybe I'm OCD when it comes to cleaning my chain....... But it's like (almost) new after 5,000km.

Ok, that's clean!! I usually do a decent job myself but rarely get it that good.

I checked the chain length using a ruler following Sheldon Browns advice. 255mm for 10 links. Still fine by his reckoning, but I'll probably change it soon enough anyway.

G1032

crosstownk wrote: »

I can't see how cleaning would contribute to accelerating chain wear. The only thing I can think of in that regard is not rinsing the chain of degreaser before re-oiling.

I've almost 5,000km on a Dura Ace chain and 105 5800 cassette and both seem fine. That said, I don't (yet) have a chain measurement tool so I'm relying on performance and visual inspections which lack in accuracy.

But a chain and cassette that wear together might seem fine even though both could be worn. If you put a new chain on with your current cassette will it skip/jump on you?

I had to service up a bike for someone a while ago. Drivetrain wasn't particularly dirty. Anyway it was all running nice and smoothly and I decided to check the chain wear. It was way over the 1%. Replaced the chain and after I did that it started skipping. Had to go replace the cassette too. But the two worn components had worked fine together.

crosstownk

G1032 wrote: »

But a chain and cassette that wear together might seem fine even though both could be worn. If you put a new chain on with your current cassette will it skip/jump on you?

That's a good point. The answer is 'I don't know'. I must measure and replace the chain if necessary and I'll post back how it works with the cassette.

crosstownk

crosstownk wrote: »

I must measure and replace the chain if necessary and I'll post back how it works with the cassette.

FWIW, I replaced the chain yesterday after 5,500kms of service. I got a Park Tool chain measure meant tool and the wear was over 0.75%. The cassette also has 5,500kms on it.

The new chain is shifting impeccably on the old cassette so I reckon I'll get a fair few more kms out of the cassette.

Daroxtar

Fitted a new chain the other day and as above, shifting is like new. The Cassette can wait a while yet.

Wishbone Ash

crosstownk wrote: »

...The new chain is shifting impeccably on the old cassette so I reckon I'll get a fair few more kms out of the cassette.

In my experience it's when you have to get out of the saddle on a steep climb that you'll notice the incompatibility more. On your next ride, take a diversion via Kilmashogue Lane and report back to us!

eeeee

What degreaser do you use crosstownk? That is one shiny chain and cassette. I just rinse mine thoroughly after a mucky spin then oil it

Type 17

tomasrojo wrote: »

I more than doubled the life of chains by adding a mudflap to the front mudguard.

+1 on this - my commuter had no mudflap for years, and I got used to changing the chain (at 1%) about every 18 months or so, but now that I've fitted new SKS mudguards with a built-in front mudflap, my current chain-wear is only about half of what it used to be (and my feet stay a lot drier on wet runs, too!).

crosstownk

gadetra wrote: »

What degreaser do you use crosstownk?

I use an engine degreaser. I got it in my local hardware. I remove the cassette from the wheel (I don't want degreaser getting into the hub) and soak the sprockets in a shallow bath of the degreaser for a few minutes then I clean them with an old nail brush. Once they're clean I rinse the degreaser off and dry the sprockets before reassembling. I also clean the chain using the same degreaser in a Lidl chain cleaner thingy.

Fresh oil on a dirty chain creates a paste of oil and grit which can act as a cutting compound and rapidly increase chain wear.



Maybe I should use some degreaser on that can!

eeeee

Hmmm see my worry is getting degreaser into the free hub. I haven't the tools to take off the cassette or chain, I am using the pink muc off stuff, and I have a spray degreaser which I am a bit too afraid to use on the cassette because of it getting into the free hub. It's great on rims though. I may well stick with what I am doing, it's time to get the toothbrushes out again :pac:

ted1

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Can't understand how you can get 5,000kms out of a chain! :eek:

I'd be lucky to get 2-3,000.

I also use KMC chains because of the quick link.

I've 8km in mine and only now is it needing to be changed.
Do you gauge it yourself or do you use a chai wear tool?

LollipopJimmy

I use this one. Mixed 5:1 with water so it lasts a good while. Chain and cassette are like brand new after over 2000 kms of which I'd say half were on a wet ground if not rain

http://www.detailingshed.com/pre-wash/39-chemical-guys-heavy-duty-orange-degreaser.html

crosstownk

gadetra wrote: »

Hmmm see my worry is getting degreaser into the free hub. I haven't the tools to take off the cassette or chain

A set of these will allow you to remove the cassette to clean it thoroughly. There's no need to remove the chain to clean it. A decent chain cleaner will do the job with the chain in place. One of these is a great help to keep the chain from scratching the frame while you clean it with the rear wheel removed.

Wishbone Ash

ted1 wrote: »

...Do you gauge it yourself or do you use a chai wear tool?

I use a chain wear tool. (I've had chains break on two occasions - not pleasant on a steep gradient).

ford2600

gadetra wrote: »

Hmmm see my worry is getting degreaser into the free hub. I haven't the tools to take off the cassette or chain, I am using the pink muc off stuff, and I have a spray degreaser which I am a bit too afraid to use on the cassette because of it getting into the free hub. It's great on rims though. I may well stick with what I am doing, it's time to get the toothbrushes out again :pac:

Pretty sure Campagnola recommend just a clean rag for cleaning chain. KMC recommend a solvent if you wish to ruin chain.

That advice along with being a lazy ****er is what I do.

Same for cassette; pop of wheel keep rag taught and run it between each cog as you rotate cassette. Do each cog in turn. No worries about damaging bearings. Sometimes less is more ☺

BTW any picture of that shed you sheeted? More impressed with that than any bike ride ☺

eeeee

ford2600 wrote: »

Pretty sure Campagnola recommend just a clean rag for cleaning chain. KMC recommend a solvent if you wish to ruin chain.

That advice along with being a lazy ****er is what I do.

Same for cassette; pop of wheel keep rag taught and run it between each cog as you rotate cassette. Do each cog in turn. No worries about damaging bearings. Sometimes less is more ☺

BTW any picture of that shed you sheeted? More impressed with that than any bike ride ☺

Ha ha I have only pics of our well dodge scaffolding-propped up on rough, uneven ground with bits of stones and wood. The bounce in it made it interesting!

It's a regular 80's hayshed that was sheeted at the gable ends, so we did the back and half the front. The timber at the gable ends is rotten, but the roof is on with rsj's so it was a kind of hayshed rescue/conservation mission! Hanging a sheeted gate at the entrance with 5' of Sheeting on top from the roof for about 16' clearance. Used a lot of old sheeting that was lying around beside some new stuff. It looks like a patchwork quilt!

Mercian Pro

ford2600 wrote: »

KMC recommend a solvent if you wish to ruin chain.

Checked out their website http://www.kmcchain.eu/MAINTENANCE and it certainly wasn't what I expected or have been doing. Might try warm soapy water but I can't really see it shifting some of the gunge that has built up in recent weeks.

LollipopJimmy

I'd be happy to use degreasers on the chain once they're not too harsh and once the chain is properly lubed after

My process is to spray the degreaser on the cassette as I spin it up then use a brush to scrub as I keep spinning. Then rinse off with water from a spray bottle.
Dry it off with a clean rag and then a light dusting with a spray like wd40 to drive out any remaining moisture. Leave it sit for a few minutes the apply lube.
But... I love playing in my shed and any excuse to get my hands dirty.

crosstownk

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I'd be happy to use degreasers on the chain once they're not too harsh and once the chain is properly lubed after

For me, removing the degreaser is very important. There's no point in having degreaser remaining and ready to degrease the fresh oil........

As Mrs. crosstownk says - "if you cleaned the house half as good as you clean that bloody bike.............."

LollipopJimmy

crosstownk wrote: »

For me, removing the degreaser is very important. There's no point in having degreaser remaining and ready to degrease the fresh oil........

As Mrs. crosstownk says - "if you cleaned the house half as good as you clean that bloody bike.............."

Yep, the scrubbing, drying and wd40 removes it and leaves you with the perfect surface for the new lube

I get the same grief, worse still I also keep my car the same way and have been known to drop quite an amount of cash at detailingshed 😀

ballyharpat

price of an ultra chain -e15 if I clean it and relube it about every 3 rides-every 2 in current weather conditions , I will change it 3-4k, and that is spending 1 minute to run it through a dry rag to clean off the old dirt, apply new lube, let sit for a few minutes, wipe off the excess, job done-I used to remove the chain and clean it religiously, for way? my time is better spent riding or doing other things, to save myself e3/5

Seaswimmer

In over 35 years of cycling I have only ever used diesel on chains for cleaning and oiling. If its very dirty run it through chain cleaner tool with diesel then soak a rag in clean diesel and run chain through it.

In the recent wet weather I run the chain through a rag soaked in diesel a couple of times a week. I invested in a chain wear tool recently and after about 8000kms on the current chain (Ultegra CN-6701) I am not even at the 75% mark.

got the diesel advice from a man who cycled a Rudge bike all around Mayo in the 40's and 50's for work with the council laying roads..

LollipopJimmy

Seaswimmer wrote: »

In over 35 years of cycling I have only ever used diesel on chains for cleaning and oiling. If its very dirty run it through chain cleaner tool with diesel then soak a rag in clean diesel and run chain through it.

In the recent wet weather I run the chain through a rag soaked in diesel a couple of times a week. I invested in a chain wear tool recently and after about 8000kms on the current chain (Ultegra CN-6701) I am not even at the 75% mark.

got the diesel advice from a man who cycled a Rudge bike all around Mayo in the 40's and 50's for work with the council laying roads..

Garages would use diesel to clean engine parts, great stuff but very bad for your skin so the wearing of gloves would be advised

07Lapierre

I use this stuff:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/fenwicks/foaming-chain-cleaner-ec023031

Spray it on..leave it for a minute or two...then scrub the chain and cassette with a brush...

doozerie

There seem to be as many methods of maintaining chains as there are lubes for chain, which is to say a really stupid number. And people swear by loads of them. It seems like you can drown, poison, boil, bake, or pretty much torture a chain in any way imaginable and it'll bounce right back, chains are the Jack Bauer of bike parts.

There are presumably methods of chain maintenance that don't work well at all, but I've yet to find one personally. In my experience I can lavish either increasing attention on a chain, or increasing neglect, and the end results seem very similar. Here are some of my experiences in recent years:

I used to use various chain cleaning tools for cleaning chains. They are not bad at cleaning the chain but cleaning up the cleaner was a pain and if you didn't clean them properly they just reapplied their collection of gunk to the next chain. I stopped using them.

I've occasionally removed a chain to soak it in something toxic - white spirits usually, the fumes and impact on my skin of anything stronger ruled other chemicals out entirely. The chain came out clean but it was all a long-winded faff, especially with modern chains - use-once chain pins are expensive, and modern reusable chain links have a limited life span which doesn't fill me with enthusiasm for opening and closing them regularly. Plus getting rid of the relatively toxic waste was always a problem too. I stopped doing that long ago.

A few years back I started using Prolink Chain Lube, which claims to clean the chain while lubricating it. After every one or two rides I wipe the chain with a cloth and re-apply the lube, link by link. I've stuck with that, it's an all-in-one kind of solution that satisfies the competing demands of both my laziness and my concern for the welfare of my chain. Some results of that are that I've had a Campag Chorus 9sp chain last for over 6,000km before I replaced it - the cassette was well worn by then too but lasted well with the new chain despite that. And I've had a Campag Record 11sp chain last over 7,000km and the cassette was left in very good condition by then too and I'm still using it.

When it comes to my commute bikes my laziness wins hands down - particularly with my current commute bike, which is impossible to love, the chain goes un-cleaned and even un-lubed for months at a time. I expected the KMC 10sp chain on it to disintegrate a long time ago. Its quick link snapped within the first few months of its life, I replaced that with a new quick link but had no faith in the chain at all. By the time I replaced the chain at the weekend though it had clocked up over 9,000km but the cassette had to go in the bin at the same time. But the chainrings are still okay. Not bad results overall for a badly neglected chain.

On balance, my "cared for" chains lasted better in that they didn't kill the cassette by the time the chain died, but the gap in results is a lot smaller than I would have expected. I wouldn't recommend the neglect approach, but it worked fairly well for me on this occasion.

Oh, and beware of chain measuring tools, they are very convenient but most of them don't measure accurately - basically, they over-estimate the wear on the chain so you may end up throwing away chains with a lot of life left in them. On the plus side this extends the life of your cassette and chainrings but whether it works out as better value in the long run I don't know.