Opel fitted defeat device to diesel cars too?

colm_mcm

"It's a German"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/vauxhall/news/dragged-into-emissions-scandal/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/845a16d4-796c-11e5-a95a-27d368e1ddf7.html#axzz3qfPoSD1z

cantdecide

I remember hearing about VW and thinking 'this is the tip of the iceberg'. Then I realised the first into the scandal will be the first out.

Atlantic Dawn

The Europeans car makers were too far ahead of the global competition with low diesel emissions for it to be possible without cheating. The testers had to know it, the boardroom in the car makers had to know it.

La Fenetre

VW fanboys will clutch at anything at this stage.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Wait till BMW and Mercedes get discovered too, if VW couldn't do it without using cheat software then neither can any of the rest of them. It's only a matter of time.

NIMAN

I'd say every car manufacturer has been up to no good to varying degrees.

Atlantic Dawn

NIMAN wrote: »

I'd say every car manufacturer has been up to no good to varying degrees.

There's lots too that couldn't make the figures so instead they bought up the engines or "swapped" technology to give them those incredible figures.

robbie99

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Wait till BMW and Mercedes get discovered too, if VW couldn't do it without using cheat software then neither can any of the rest of them. It's only a matter of time.

What kicked off this scandal was a random test done in the states on two VWs and a BMW. The BMW was well able to demonstrate compliance on NOx emissions in real world driving but not the VWs. It was the large difference between the VWs and the BMW that encouraged the regulators to investigate VW further with VW eventually admitting to having cheated. So no, it is possible to do it without cheating as BMW have shown.

mickdw

robbie99 wrote: »

What kicked off this scandal was a random test done in the states on two VWs and a BMW. The BMW was well able to demonstrate compliance on NOx emissions in real world driving but not the VWs. It was the large difference between the VWs and the BMW that encouraged the regulators to investigate VW further with VW eventually admitting to having cheated. So no, it is possible to do it without cheating as BMW have shown.

The bmw used was a larger capacity engine and as such was not a like for like comparison. The entire issue relates to the more highly tuned small capacity, high powered, low emissions low mpg engines.

robbie99

mickdw wrote: »

The bmw used was a larger capacity engine and as such was not a like for like comparison. The entire issue relates to the more highly tuned small capacity, high powered, low emissions low mpg engines.

VAG 3L Diesel engines in Audis and Porches are now also being accused of not complying with the NOX emissions by CARB, so I wouldn't say it's all about size anymore. 3L BMW engines comply, 3L VAG engines don't. My point though is that it is possible to comply without cheating and it's nonsense as Cee-jay-Cee said that "If VW couldn't do it without using cheat software then neither can any of the rest of them" - with BMW being specifically mentioned.

NIMAN

I just find it hard to believe that a car giant with the money and RD behind it that VW has couldn't produce a compliant engine yet many of the Far Eastern producers could.

Thats why I think many manufaturers will be very nervous at present.

JohnBoy26

NIMAN wrote: »

I just find it hard to believe that a car giant with the money and RD behind it that VW has couldn't produce a compliant engine yet many of the Far Eastern producers could.

Thats why I think many manufaturers will be very nervous at present.

Who?

NIMAN

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Who?

Some of them listed here, along with some French too.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/low-emission-cars/diesel/

Special Circumstances

robbie99 wrote: »

VAG 3L Diesel engines in Audis and Porches are now also being accused of not complying with the NOX emissions by CARB, so I wouldn't say it's all about size anymore. 3L BMW engines comply, 3L VAG engines don't. My point though is that it is possible to comply without cheating and it's nonsense as Cee-jay-Cee said that "If VW couldn't do it without using cheat software then neither can any of the rest of them" - with BMW being specifically mentioned.

I agree.

VW backed PD tech and couldn't make it work as well as CR for emissions. Came very very late to the CR party and cheated to gain an advantage.

Sure, the test is crap, and the focus on CO2 is a joke. And yes, manufacturers can make ridiculous physical modifications to optimise their cars for a ridiculous test so that people who don't care about the environment can drive clattery chape tax cars as a reward for producing more pollution. But I wouldn't just assume anyone else was in VWs league of cheating.


VW must know who else is at it. I refuse to believe that they don't get new technology cars from competitors torn apart and analysed.
I've seen "tear down" and "patent infringement check" (lol) reports in another industry.

If they know of more companies fiddling things to the same degree, especially if they are not german, then they can make this so big that the whole thing has to amnestied and future regulations watered down.

Cee-Jay-Cee

robbie99 wrote: »

VAG 3L Diesel engines in Audis and Porches are now also being accused of not complying with the NOX emissions by CARB, so I wouldn't say it's all about size anymore. 3L BMW engines comply, 3L VAG engines don't. My point though is that it is possible to comply without cheating and it's nonsense as Cee-jay-Cee said that "If VW couldn't do it without using cheat software then neither can any of the rest of them" - with BMW being specifically mentioned.

Ooops didn't mean to offend a BMW driver, however I stand by my opinion, maybe the bigger cc bmw engines are compliant but what about their 2.0L engines?

La Fenetre

VW have been caught out for the cheating crooks they are, so their fanboys now claim everyone must be at it

dar83

They'll all be at it some degree, some (VAG group) worse than others, but if you think most large volume manufacturers won't have some model/line involved in some way then I suggest you wake up and smell the NOx!

Special Circumstances

La Fenetre wrote: »

VW have been caught out for the cheating crooks they are, so their fanboys now claim everyone must be at it

First production vehicle common rail diesel - Denso Japan.

R&D leading to use in passenger vehicles - Fiat Italy.


"Oh but if VW can't make common rail work after starting 10 years behind everyone else, then NO ONE can make it work, especially non German marques!"
Pathetic, embarassing, pitiful...

La Fenetre

dar83 wrote: »

They'll all be at it some degree, some (VAG group) worse than others, but if you think most large volume manufacturers won't have some model/line involved in some way then I suggest you wake up and smell the NOx!

A yes, VW is deemed innocent despite the evidence, and everyone else is declared guilty with zero evidence. Justice VW style . Lol

dar83

Did you actually read my post? Is comprehension a problem you face regularly?

Maybe you need to stop smelling the NOx. :P

robbie99

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Ooops didn't mean to offend a BMW driver, however I stand by my opinion, maybe the bigger cc bmw engines are compliant but what about their 2.0L engines?

So in your opinion BMW 2L engines will be found out as cheating emissions compliance because if VW couldn't no way can BMW. Is there any other reason for your opinion?

Cerco

robbie99 wrote: »

So in your opinion BMW 2L engines will be found out as cheating emissions compliance because if VW couldn't no way can BMW. Is there any other reason for your opinion?

,probably has a VW and wishes for a BMW

corkgsxr

I'd say opels emissions are fine. Them being on fire at the time probably messed up the results

galwaytt

NIMAN wrote: »

I just find it hard to believe that a car giant with the money and RD behind it that VW has couldn't produce a compliant engine yet many of the Far Eastern producers could.

Thats why I think many manufaturers will be very nervous at present.

Sorry, but no.

Japan hasn't bought into diesel at all. Go to Japan for yourself and see. Not even buses are diesel in the city - CNG. Petrol, electric and hybrid .
I think they've been eyeing claimed CO2 figures from the Germans with raised eyebrows for years....

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cerco wrote: »

,probably has a VW and wishes for a BMW

Never had either, in fact never owned any European car, have absolutely no desire to and probably never will.

9935452

http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/volkswagen-isnt-the-first-car-manufacturer-to-have-been-caught-using-defeat-devices