MoyValley gettting the O'Connor Jnr treatment

Telecaster58

Just got a tweet from WaltonMedia



MEDIA RELEASE:

For Immediate Release:

Date: 5th November 2015



“CHRISTY O’CONNOR JNR APPOINTED TO UNDERTAKE THEUPGRADE AND REDEVELOPMENT OF THE GOLF COURSE AT MOYVALLEY HOTEL & GOLFRESORT”



The recent news thatIrish golfing legend, Ryder Cup player and prolific international golf coursedesigner Christy O’Connor Jnr has been appointed to upgrade and redevelop thegolf course at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort, Co. Kildare has been greatlywelcomed by the business and golf community in Co. Kildare.



Lastweek Christy O’Connor Jnr spoke at a Kildare Tourism event hosted in BallynaHouse at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort and gave a brief insight into hiscourse upgrade and development plans for the future;



“Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort is truly a hidden gemin North Kildare, only a stone’s throw away from the capital and DublinInternational Airport, located just off the M4 Motorway. I was really takenaback with my first visit around Moyvalley, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t beenintroduced to this magnificent venue previously. The golf course has the makingof a very fine golf course and it will be a pleasant task for me to bring thecourse in line with the top golf courses in Ireland. I am very much lookingforward to working closely with the Directors, members and the team here atMoyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort and to welcoming new members on board to thismagnificent facility.”



Moyvalley Hotel &Golf Resort has in recent times been taken over by new owners Ms. Rita Shah,and Ms. Jane Tripipatkul and her son Mark McCarthy who purchased the propertywith the late Irish racehorse trainer Oliver Brady. Poignantly, the recent“Celebration” event at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort was held in "Memoriamto Oliver Brady and the Shabra Charity Foundation".



MoyvalleyHotel & Golf Resort is undergoing strategic review in the coming monthsahead and the Directors are looking forward to a successful partnership withCounty Kildare Fáilte and the greater Kildare Tourism network. Speaking aboutthe great news Mr. John Osborne, Chief Executive of County Kildare Fáilte said;



"We,at County Kildare Fáilte, are delighted to support this very special event atMoyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort. Kildare is a County that features anabundance of hidden gems and authentic heritage hence a key objective of ourstrategy is to showcase these incredible locations. This celebration eventat Moyvalley, reinforces this objective and serves to remind us of the uniqueheritage that is available on our doorstep. We wish the team at theMoyvalley Hotel & Golf Course continued success and look forward to anongoing collaboration".



Significantinvestment will be now provided for the upgrade and development of the golfcourse and works will start with immediate effect.



Furtherdetails on Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort can be found on www.moyvalley.com



**************************

Media Release Issued by Walton Media PR



For further information please contact:



Stacey Williams, MIAPR, MPRII,

Group Marketing & PR Director,

Walton Media Group,

T: +353 (0) 1 4199604

E: pr@waltonmedia.com





WaltonMedia PR

WaltonMedia Group

T: +353(0)1 4199604

sodbuster

If its getting the O'Connor treatment that mean only one thing. Water. And lots of it

Hoof Hearted2

sodbuster wrote: »

If its getting the O'Connor treatment that mean only one thing. Water. And lots of it

And ridiculously sloped greens.

Stingray

Will redevelopment have any major effect on playing?

Any one know the general condition of the course at the moment, bunkers etc? Fairways I assume are dry as a bone, seems good drainage on these.

Milkers

Unless the redevelopment involves moving it 20ish miles up the road towards Dublin I have no idea how it is going to make much impact on numbers through the door. The course is already really good and has very low traffic. Seems a total waste of money.

First Up

Stingray wrote: »

Will redevelopment have any major effect on playing?

Any one know the general condition of the course at the moment, bunkers etc? Fairways I assume are dry as a bone, seems good drainage on these.

Played it a month or two back and it was in good nick. The weather was good at the time so can't comment on how it hold up in rain etc. but the course was well maintained.

Ollieboy

Milkers wrote: »

Unless the redevelopment involves moving it 20ish miles up the road towards Dublin I have no idea how it is going to make much impact on numbers through the door. The course is already really good and has very low traffic. Seems a total waste of money.

100% agree. Played it last August and it didn't really impress me but the distance from Dublin and the lack of a leisure center at the hotel make it pointless.

Dr_Colossus

Ollieboy wrote: »

100% agree. Played it last August and it didn't really impress me but the distance from Dublin and the lack of a leisure center at the hotel make it pointless.

Would have to agree, played MoyValley twice and it's a fine course with great practice facilities but if travelling that far from Dublin you'd be better travelling a a further 30km out the road to play New Forrest which I'd rate as a much better and tougher course.

With all the money originally pumped into the course (the race track like drive way in from the main road alone must have cost a fortune) and all the publicity with Darren Clarke "designing" it, it's hard to see what's now in store for it with Christie O'Connor Jun at the helm. Doesn't speak well either for the only Darren Clarke designed course that I'm aware off to be redesigned only a few years later.

Miley Byrne

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Would have to agree, played MoyValley twice and it's a fine course with great practice facilities but if travelling that far from Dublin you'd be better travelling a a further 30km out the road to play New Forrest which I'd rate as a much better and tougher course.

With all the money originally pumped into the course (the race track like drive way in from the main road alone must have cost a fortune) and all the publicity with Darren Clarke "designing" it, it's hard to see what's now in store for it with Christie O'Connor Jun at the helm. Doesn't speak well either for the only Darren Clarke designed course that I'm aware off to be redesigned only a few years later.

Didn't he 'design' Castle Dargan too?

Milkers

Ollieboy wrote: »

100% agree. Played it last August and it didn't really impress me but the distance from Dublin and the lack of a leisure center at the hotel make it pointless.

Ollie was that your first time playing it? Only asking because I felt the exact same first time I played it but it really grew on me the more I got to know it. I know I'm repeating myself but this redesign idea really baffles me. I can only picture a meeting with the owners/staff/committee members where they tried to figure out why more people don't join/play there and they somehow came to the conclusion it must be the design of the course! Have a feeling their best bet would be an appealing mid-range "distance" membership option and then aggressive marketing around the west (M50/M4 accessible) fringes of Dublin.

PARlance

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Didn't he 'design' Castle Dargan too?

Spot on.

thewobbler

I enjoyed Moyvalley.

But there is something missing from the outward 9 in terms of memorability. Even on the way home that evening we struggled to pick the front 9 apart.

If Christy digs a couple of streams (no need for rivers or lakes) and raises a few tee boxes, it might be enough to push it into Ireland's top tier.

phkk

I was staying in the hotel in the middle of August and wandered up to check out the golf club. A fine, dry day it was if a little breezy and all I saw were two out playing. 'Twas like a ghost town really. I must say that the fella in the ship was a lovely, friendly man but location wise, it's just a bit too far out of any urban centres to do well I feel

Ollieboy

Milkers wrote: »

Ollie was that your first time playing it? Only asking because I felt the exact same first time I played it but it really grew on me the more I got to know it. I know I'm repeating myself but this redesign idea really baffles me. I can only picture a meeting with the owners/staff/committee members where they tried to figure out why more people don't join/play there and they somehow came to the conclusion it must be the design of the course! Have a feeling their best bet would be an appealing mid-range "distance" membership option and then aggressive marketing around the west (M50/M4 accessible) fringes of Dublin.

First time playing it. These were the problems I saw with the course:

1. Its market as changed in recent times, it's now aim at the middle green fee paying market instead of the rich Yanks or tourist. The course location/hotel is better aim at the top end of the market.
2. Location, just the worse location ever.
3. The course has only one defense and that's the ridiculous rough on very narrow fairways. It's just head wrecking if you are playing badly off the tee.
4. No outstanding feature on the course, you come off it and feel you've played any course.
5. Upkeep of the course must be massive and surrounding areas.

We have too many golf courses in Ireland at all levels of the market and I'm afraid this is one of the courses that should disappear so we can keep the other high end golf courses instead that are in better locations etc. This course as no hinterland or market place, so it should disappear instead of wealthy owners keeping it going.

Sorry for being so harsh.

yipsnomore

We have to avoid obsession with design. We live in one of the wettest countries in Europe. We need course condition to be the number one priority.

Im not interested in my course having wonderfully designed strategically place bunkers if there's not enough sand in them and they are hardpan 6 months of the year. Whats the point in huge sloping greens if you cant put a pin on on 50% of it.

Let Tier one courses be Tier one and everyone else just spend the money on things like a continuous sanding program.

First Up

Ollieboy wrote: »

First time playing it. These were the problems I saw with the course:

1. Its market as changed in recent times, it's now aim at the middle green fee paying market instead of the rich Yanks or tourist. The course location/hotel is better aim at the top end of the market.
2. Location, just the worse location ever.
3. The course has only one defense and that's the ridiculous rough on very narrow fairways. It's just head wrecking if you are playing badly off the tee.
4. No outstanding feature on the course, you come off it and feel you've played any course.
5. Upkeep of the course must be massive and surrounding areas.

We have too many golf courses in Ireland at all levels of the market and I'm afraid this is one of the courses that should disappear so we can keep the other high end golf courses instead that are in better locations etc. This course as no hinterland or market place, so it should disappear instead of wealthy owners keeping it going.

Sorry for being so harsh.

I think that's a bit overly harsh. It is nice terrain - not sure it is quite the "inland links" they claim but nice to play off and I thought the fairways and adjacent rough were very playable. I don't think any course aimed at the casual golfer or society is in the business of excessively punishing errant shots.
That said, no question its location is a problem and coming from Dublin you pass a few courses equally good.

First Up

yipsnomore wrote: »

We have to avoid obsession with design. We live in one of the wettest countries in Europe. We need course condition to be the number one priority.

Im not interested in my course having wonderfully designed strategically place bunkers if there's not enough sand in them and they are hardpan 6 months of the year. Whats the point in huge sloping greens if you cant put a pin on on 50% of it.

Let Tier one courses be Tier one and everyone else just spend the money on things like a continuous sanding program.

And proper drainage!

PARlance

yipsnomore wrote: »

We have to avoid obsession with design. We live in one of the wettest countries in Europe. We need course condition to be the number one priority.

Im not interested in my course having wonderfully designed strategically place bunkers if there's not enough sand in them and they are hardpan 6 months of the year. Whats the point in huge sloping greens if you cant put a pin on on 50% of it.

Let Tier one courses be Tier one and everyone else just spend the money on things like a continuous sanding program.

I think we have to give credit to courses that realise this too. There are plenty out there that have moved / are in the process of making moves towards this.

Castlewarden is a fine example of this imo. They never went too ott in the first place, the course is always in good condition and despite not being too extravagant to start, they came up with a plan (3-4 year plan I think) to reduce bunkers. And it seems to be well thought out, they redesigned the bunkers rather than just filling half of them in. Having great land is a big plus for them but I think its a club that most clubs could learn from.

I think design should play a big part in small ways.

Ollieboy

First Up wrote: »

I think that's a bit overly harsh. It is nice terrain - not sure it is quite the "inland links" they claim but nice to play off and I thought the fairways and adjacent rough were very playable. I don't think any course aimed at the casual golfer or society is in the business of excessively punishing errant shots.
That said, no question its location is a problem and coming from Dublin you pass a few courses equally good.

When I played it the rough was up to my knee's, it was pointless even looking for a ball and it was the main defense on the course. I was actually playing well and wasn't in the rough that much, but other players had a nightmare and most people starting hitting irons of tee-boxes. The greens and fairways were perfect, bunkers were ok.

But my main point is not the course, does this area/location need this course and that is very simply NO.

We need to reduce the number of golf courses in this country and make sure the strong clubs are around afterwards and that isn't always the best course. This course with it's cheap golf on a quality course is just damaging the other clubs. It might keep green fee players happy, but they aren't the market that will keep golf alive in this country for the long term.

I know harsh, but true.

Kingswood Rover

Ollieboy wrote: »

When I played it the rough was up to my knee's, it was pointless even looking for a ball and it was the main defense on the course. I was actually playing well and wasn't in the rough that much, but other players had a nightmare and most people starting hitting irons of tee-boxes. The greens and fairways were perfect, bunkers were ok.

But my main point is not the course, does this area/location need this course and that is very simply NO.

We need to reduce the number of golf courses in this country and make sure the strong clubs are around afterwards and that isn't always the best course. This course with it's cheap golf on a quality course is just damaging the other clubs. It might keep green fee players happy, but they aren't the market that will keep golf alive in this country for the long term.

I know harsh, but true.

We need to increase the number of players playing the game to fill up the courses that have unused capacity.

First Up

Ollieboy wrote: »

When I played it the rough was up to my knee's, it was pointless even looking for a ball and it was the main defense on the course. I was actually playing well and wasn't in the rough that much, but other players had a nightmare and most people starting hitting irons of tee-boxes. The greens and fairways were perfect, bunkers were ok.

But my main point is not the course, does this area/location need this course and that is very simply NO.

We need to reduce the number of golf courses in this country and make sure the strong clubs are around afterwards and that isn't always the best course. This course with it's cheap golf on a quality course is just damaging the other clubs. It might keep green fee players happy, but they aren't the market that will keep golf alive in this country for the long term.

I know harsh, but true.

I remember two areas where the rough was thick but both were a good bit offline and could have been in water, trees or even OB on other courses.

If someone bought it (and took it out of NAMA) I'd be happy about that as NAMA are screwing up the market for others by operating on a non-commercial basis. I've played a lot worse and while I wouldn't be trekking out there every week, I would have no objection to playing there the odd time.

Ally McIntosh

yipsnomore wrote: »

We have to avoid obsession with design. We live in one of the wettest countries in Europe. We need course condition to be the number one priority.

Im not interested in my course having wonderfully designed strategically place bunkers if there's not enough sand in them and they are hardpan 6 months of the year. Whats the point in huge sloping greens if you cant put a pin on on 50% of it.

Let Tier one courses be Tier one and everyone else just spend the money on things like a continuous sanding program.

Naturally I'd disagree. My opinion is that a well designed course should take precedence over unsustainable expectations for perfect conditioning.

That said, certain things go hand in hand. For instance drainage. Good drainage is first and foremost a design issue. The green keeper can only work with what he's been given by the design and construction methodologies (and budget of same).

I agree with PARlance that design can play a big part in small ways. A cleverly thought out bunker scheme - taken in tandem with clever greens design - can transform a hole from bland in to a strategic master piece. This in turn can allow the overall number of bunkers to be reduced and cost to be lowered, allowing budgets to be spent in other ways that will improve the day to day conditioning.

My personal opinion is that people don't spend enough time focusing on design. If awareness was lifted, the quality of the golf courses being built and renovated would also increase.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

I remember two areas where the rough was thick but both were a good bit offline and could have been in water, trees or even OB on other courses.

If someone bought it (and took it out of NAMA) I'd be happy about that as NAMA are screwing up the market for others by operating on a non-commercial basis. I've played a lot worse and while I wouldn't be trekking out there every week, I would have no objection to playing there the odd time.

It was bought over a year and a half ago. Oliver Brady (former racehorse trainer, now deceased), his partner / business partner Rita Shab and a few others got the whole thing for €5 million. Not a great return for the Irish taxpayer but that's not a golfing concern.

It'll be interesting to see if it can be made a going concern commercially, the money behind it will mean it will be fine. However, same money leaves it in a nama-esque state. As investors, I'm sure they could/will live with operating losses (akin to Nama) in order to buy time for a sizeable profit via a future sale. You couldn't build the place for €5 million.

With the fire sales Nama have done, investors can afford to be run places "non commercially", absorb loses to be more exact, and then sell on for a decent profit down the line. So the end of Nama isn't going to be the end of unfair advantages in golfing terms. It's Nama, just a private Nama.

yipsnomore

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Naturally I'd disagree. My opinion is that a well designed course should take precedence over unsustainable expectations for perfect conditioning.

Naturally

I'm not against well designed courses. I'm against spreading resources too thinly trying to maintain a poorly designed one.

Ally McIntosh

yipsnomore wrote: »

Naturally

I'm not against well designed courses. I'm against spreading resources too thinly trying to maintain a poorly designed one.

I'm with you there.

First Up

PARlance wrote: »

It was bought over a year and a half ago. Oliver Brady (former racehorse trainer, now deceased), his partner / business partner Rita Shab and a few others got the whole thing for €5 million. Not a great return for the Irish taxpayer but that's not a golfing concern.

It'll be interesting to see if it can be made a going concern commercially, the money behind it will mean it will be fine. However, same money leaves it in a nama-esque state. As investors, I'm sure they could/will live with operating losses (akin to Nama) in order to buy time for a sizeable profit via a future sale. You couldn't build the place for €5 million.

With the fire sales Nama have done, investors can afford to be run places "non commercially", absorb loses to be more exact, and then sell on for a decent profit down the line. So the end of Nama isn't going to be the end of unfair advantages in golfing terms. It's Nama, just a private Nama.

Don't think thats right. Any investors I know want to see return fairly quick and that means a credible business plan. Buying a golf course in the middle of nowhere looks more like a leap of faith than a serious profit driven investment.

Not that bad a deal for the State. NAMA is a bad bank and scrubbed up farmland with flags has limited market value.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

Don't think thats right. Any investors I know want to see return fairly quick and that means a credible business plan. Buying a golf course in the middle of nowhere looks more like a leap of faith than a serious profit driven investment.

Not that bad a deal for the State. NAMA is a bad bank and scrubbed up farmland with flags has limited market value.

There's a hotel and plenty of lodges on it as well as good potential agricultural land if they don't turn the golf club side around. €80 million development sold for €5 million would have to be classed as another bad deal by Nama.

They've had it a year and a half. You should be able to send me some evidence of a fairly quick return / successfully implemented business plan?

It'll never be worth less than €5 million. Probably worth a multiple of that in 5-10 years (golf course or not). Any of the investors I know would see that as the big win.

First Up

PARlance wrote: »

There's a hotel and plenty of lodges on it as well as good potential agricultural land if they don't turn the golf club side around. €80 million development sold for €5 million would have to be classed as another bad deal by Nama.

They've had it a year and a half. You should be able to send me some evidence of a fairly quick return / successfully implemented business plan?

It'll never be worth less than €5 million. Probably worth a multiple of that in 5-10 years (golf course or not). Any of the investors I know would see that as the big win.

The €80 million invested wasn't public money. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. NAMA got €5 million. That' €5m more than nothing.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

The €80 million invested wasn't public money. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. NAMA got €5 million. That' €5m more than nothing.

Good math, it's also considerably less than the the loan value.

I guess I'll await the short term successfully business model.

Kevinmarkham

Soooooo.... they're going to rename the course to the 'Twin Oaks Championship Course' at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort... and Christy has gone and planted two large Irish oaks on the opening holes.

Strokey beard time...

dan_ep82

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Soooooo.... they're going to rename the course to the 'Twin Oaks Championship Course' at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort... and Christy has gone and planted two large Irish oaks on the opening holes.

Strokey beard time...

Got the email aswell, very American name but if it works for them great.

searay

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Soooooo.... they're going to rename the course to the 'Twin Oaks Championship Course' at Moyvalley Hotel & Golf Resort... and Christy has gone and planted two large Irish oaks on the opening holes.

Strokey beard time...

Christy has designed some great courses as per this link:

http://www.cocjnr.com/design-portfolio/4547063538

I'd be disappointed if planting two trees was his contribution to moyvalley.

Moyvalley was built on great farmland but didn't have many natural features and trees like many of the courses he has designed. The course's main features were great greens and lots of bunkers. When Nama took over, the maintenance was cut to the detriment of the bunkers.

To me, it was hard to distinguish between the holes particularly compared to Headford New or the like. I'd like to see them sending around a real plan for the course so we know there's real changes coming.