PME Secondary: Help please?

Ravanelli

I'm looking for some help with completing the PME application and the issues surrounding it, if anyone is familiar with the process and could give me a hand it would be much appreciated.

I graduated a few weeks back from Maynooth University (NUI) with a Double Hons degree in History and Sociology (thinking of doing History & CSPE teaching) in which I got a 2.1 which worked out at 63.9% in History and 61.1% in Sociology. I think that comes to 62.5% overall. (43 points in terms of assessment for acceptance into the PME).

In terms of the points for the PME starting in August 2015 the points worked out at:

Maynooth University: (1st round: 42 points) (2nd round: 40 points)
NUI Galway: (1st round: 40 points) (2nd round: 39 points)
UCC: (1st round: 39 points) (2nd round: 39 points)
UCD: (1st round : 37 points) (2nd round: 37 points)

http://www.pac.ie/pmeinfo/points.php?inst=pe

Now in terms of how the points are calculated it's here:

http://www.pac.ie/pmeinfo/PointsCalc.php?inst=pe

42 points is 60.00%-61.99%
40 points is 56.00%-57.99%
39 points is 54.00%-54.99%
37 points is 50.00%-51.99%

Does that basically mean that having anything above 60% (42 points) would give you a very good chance of being accepted onto the PME? I know it looks fairly cut and dried from those figures but I find it a bit baffling that the percentage results for acceptance appear so low.

In terms of the application I'm stuck on a few areas regarding the supporting documentation you're advised to send within 7 days of making the online application. If anyone has any knowledge of them it would be most helpful:

Transcripts of results for each year: You get them printed at your college right?

Diploma Supplement (if you have one): What is this? All I received at my graduation was the scroll.

Proof of work experience: Is this only required when you're trying to get extra points from working with young people etc? To be quite honest I don't have a lot of work experience, bar doing a bit of stewarding at events from around 2008-2010.

Birth Cert: On the PME FAQ's it says you should send a birth cert with your supporting documents, on the checklist on the PAC site for what you need to send as part of your supporting documents it says don't send a birth cert. Very confusing

Also I had good results in first and second year, I messed up my attempt (failed) at third year the first time I did it due to a lot of things going on at home etc. I had good results in the modules I completed but others I didn't complete due to the circumstances etc (no excuse really but it is what it is). Anyway I repeated for honours and did the full third year again which you can do only once. Though would that realistically count against me in the application or indeed if I were to have any future career in teaching?

Lastly does anyone know what the climate is like out there for young teachers at the moment? Are prospects fairly dire or is there some hope with the economy improving etc? To be honest I have a job lined up where I could be getting 30k+ per annum (the hours are quite anti-social etc) but I've always had an eye on doing teaching and would be willing to look at the long term benefits as opposed to the short term gain. Would refusing that job, putting 2 years into a PME and coming out of it a qualified teacher really be worth it? Or would I be in for years of hardship and scrimping around looking for a few hours here and there after it? I'm 25, I don't mind putting things on hold until I'm 27, though I don't want to be putting 2 years in and coming out and having absolutely no real options in terms of some sort of employment (either here or in the UK).

Sorry I know that's a lot to take in, and thanks if you took the time to read it all . Anyway if anyone could give me some advice regarding that I would be extremely grateful.

spurious

You would be mad to try go into teaching at the moment with those subjects and an offer of a 30k+ job already. You could realistically be looking at being 35 or older before getting close to a 'full time' teaching post.

See the numerous threads on how bad the situation is.

Ravanelli

spurious wrote: »

You would be mad to try go into teaching at the moment with those subjects and an offer of a 30k+ job already. You could realistically be looking at being 35 or older before getting close to a 'full time' teaching post.

See the numerous threads on how bad the situation is.

Yeah what's particularly worrying in terms of history is that it's not even compulsory at JC level anymore, I heard something about CSPE going the same way and that proposed new subject (the name escapes me but you could teach it with either a history or geography degree) seems to have been put on the back burner.

Thanks for your reply and the information, it's just that it's getting down to crunch time with making a choice between that job or the PME and I've been incredibly torn about it lately.

gaiscioch

I think spending two years of your life doing a teaching qualification could be more sensibly spent in terms of career. Time is precious. That it will cost over €12,000 of your after-tax income in fees alone to do this despite the really poor - almost non-existent with your current subjects - job prospects seems like a fool's errand. Add your cost of living for those two years and the real cost of doing that 2-year teaching qualification is exorbitant. I'm absolutely certain there are qualifications which would suit your two degree subjects better and offer better job prospects. (I wouldn't recommend going into the workforce straight away. Get your qualifications under your belt asap because it gets messy to do this when 1) you're used to the quality of life which earning money gives, and 2) you have a family.)


In order to have better job prospects you'll need to return and get the necessary degree credits in at least an additional subject. To get a single subject to degree level will cost at least €6,000 (c. €500 per 5 credit module) of your after-tax income in fees alone. In other words, to add a single subject to your History and to get the PME will cost you €18,000 plus in fees alone and take you four more years.

Then, you will start on the long slog to get the holy grail of a CID contract on full hours. When you get it, this is as good as it gets. Leaving aside the enormous and defining issue of the decline in quality of teaching life due to Croke Park hours, bureaucratisation of the profession and imposition of extra, pointless workloads, the following is the financial reality of a fully-qualified teacher in a secure pensionable teaching post. You will receive a salary of €30,702 for your first year teaching. See secondary school teacher salary scale. After the PRD, USC, PAYE, PRSI and whatever else, you might be lucky to clear €20,000 net for that year's work. Go over to myhome.ie and see what sort of home you can get in your area for 3.5 times your salary (the mortgage lending limit under current Central Bank guidelines).

If you're happy after all of this to go ahead with teaching, go for it. Just go in with your eyes open.

mirrorwall14

What gaiscioch said. Its a very very tough world out there

Dickie10

im in the same boat applying for PME but not quite sure about the job climate although i really want to do teaching, i have history and geography . i also am kind of tied to being near home as i run a big enough farm also so i may have to do just do the pme and hope for the best when i qualify.

my subjects are history and geography so plenty doing them as well! cant see myself having the will to do any other masters to be honest. the only thing i might think of doing is gettting some kind of civil service type job or something but what type of job could i get with a history and geography job? i would love something in tourism or some kind of public interaction job, are they even in exisitence? my thinking is do the PME and have it in my back pocket if things pick up, maybe get adult ed work or part time stuff. i was sure that i would be a part time farmer and working full time now looks like i will be part time teacching and farming full time!

its either that or waste my degree and the 3+ years and expand the farm and go at it very intensivley. the only masters i would like to try would be something in the agri or rural dev side, but do i need Ag Science degree for this??

mirrorwall14

You are thinking of spending 12k to have it in your back pocket? Aware of the fact that history and geography isn't the greatest combination and that jobs are scarce particularly when you are tied to one area??! Honestly I think that's completely insane. You sound a little indecisive so I would advice meeting someone about career guidance.

Dickie10

jobs could improve, theres an adult ed hdip and was told theres plenty of jobs in that but only part time. would this be a better option but i was told that if i had a PME i could prob get these jobs too

Ravanelli

gaiscioch wrote: »

I think spending two years of your life doing a teaching qualification could be more sensibly spent in terms of career. Time is precious. That it will cost over €12,000 of your after-tax income in fees alone to do this despite the really poor - almost non-existent with your current subjects - job prospects seems like a fool's errand. Add your cost of living for those two years and the real cost of doing that 2-year teaching qualification is exorbitant. I'm absolutely certain there are qualifications which would suit your two degree subjects better and offer better job prospects. (I wouldn't recommend going into the workforce straight away. Get your qualifications under your belt asap because it gets messy to do this when 1) you're used to the quality of life which earning money gives, and 2) you have a family.)


In order to have better job prospects you'll need to return and get the necessary degree credits in at least an additional subject. To get a single subject to degree level will cost at least €6,000 (c. €500 per 5 credit module) of your after-tax income in fees alone. In other words, to add a single subject to your History and to get the PME will cost you €18,000 plus in fees alone and take you four more years.

Then, you will start on the long slog to get the holy grail of a CID contract on full hours. When you get it, this is as good as it gets. Leaving aside the enormous and defining issue of the decline in quality of teaching life due to Croke Park hours, bureaucratisation of the profession and imposition of extra, pointless workloads, the following is the financial reality of a fully-qualified teacher in a secure pensionable teaching post. You will receive a salary of €30,702 for your first year teaching. See secondary school teacher salary scale. After the PRD, USC, PAYE, PRSI and whatever else, you might be lucky to clear €20,000 net for that year's work. Go over to myhome.ie and see what sort of home you can get in your area for 3.5 times your salary (the mortgage lending limit under current Central Bank guidelines).

If you're happy after all of this to go ahead with teaching, go for it. Just go in with your eyes open.

Thanks for the advice, eye opening really. I agree though I know I can't rest on my laurels with just that undergraduate degree as it's not exactly specialised in anything job related (or in demand) as such, if I'm not doing the PME (which I've pretty much decided not to do now) I was thinking of taking the job and then doing a part time Masters (more career focused) over two years or something.

Just one thing about the adding of subjects etc, this might be a relatively new thing I don't know, but you can do a hDip in English that's a year long course and would enable you to be able to teach English up to LC level. Just mentioning it if anyone's interested in adding a subject etc.

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/english/our-courses/higher-diploma-english

The way the job prospects sound is what has led me to decide to opt against going for the PME. At least if some sort of decent part time work was assured after it then it wouldn't be too bad, but that doesn't seem to be the case and I'd find it incredibly frustrating after getting a loan of that amount, doing two years and then not having even a fair amount of hours part time teaching after it.

Thank you for the advice.

Ravanelli

Dickie10 wrote: »

im in the same boat applying for PME but not quite sure about the job climate although i really want to do teaching, i have history and geography . i also am kind of tied to being near home as i run a big enough farm also so i may have to do just do the pme and hope for the best when i qualify.

my subjects are history and geography so plenty doing them as well! cant see myself having the will to do any other masters to be honest. the only thing i might think of doing is gettting some kind of civil service type job or something but what type of job could i get with a history and geography job? i would love something in tourism or some kind of public interaction job, are they even in exisitence? my thinking is do the PME and have it in my back pocket if things pick up, maybe get adult ed work or part time stuff. i was sure that i would be a part time farmer and working full time now looks like i will be part time teacching and farming full time!

its either that or waste my degree and the 3+ years and expand the farm and go at it very intensivley. the only masters i would like to try would be something in the agri or rural dev side, but do i need Ag Science degree for this??

Geography is probably a better subject to have on the jobs front than History, I'm not completely sure but I do know geography touches on several areas that are related to different areas of employment that might be more in demand. If you wanted to do something else you could do a one year conversion course in a different subject area, there's one year ''conversion'' courses (in Maynooth and I'm sure elsewhere) where you can do things ranging from finance to IT, once you have a level 8 undergrad degree. Apparently you come out after the year with the equivalent of a 3 year degree in the subject you've chosen to study.

An example of these conversion courses:

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/study-maynooth/postgraduate-studies/what-degree-right-me/conversion-courses

You should check out whether there's a course in those areas that requires you to have a level 8 undergrad for admittance to them, there could be even one of those conversion courses in that subject area or an area close enough to it.

At least you've the farm to fall back on anyway, if you could make a living through farming while doing the PME and afterwards then you're in a decent position.

Ravanelli

Dickie10 wrote: »

jobs could improve, theres an adult ed hdip and was told theres plenty of jobs in that but only part time. would this be a better option but i was told that if i had a PME i could prob get these jobs too

Is that the hDip in Further Education?

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/adult-and-community-education/our-courses/higher-diploma-further-education

I had been looking at that myself but don't know whether my subjects would be useful at all, unless I was teaching History to repeat LC's and teaching History/Sociology on some sort of Liberal Arts university access course.

I'm not sure whether I could do anything else in a F.E setting with those subjects. There seems to be such a lack of information about it too.

Dickie10

theres an information meeting usually held in november for FE in maynooth university every year get on to the maynooth website and they might have something on it in the careers section. I was told last year that the FE HDip didnt qualify to secondary teach but the PME could allow you to work in FE

gaeilgegrinds1

What I have seen has appalled me lately. The two schools I have worked in have struggled to keep on the teachers they have and all subbing is covered internally. Unless you have incredibly strong subjects, the future in teaching is bleak unless you've Gaeilge and can teach in a Gaelcoláiste. They appear to take on a fair few. Honestly so your homework though before you invest all that time and money and consider a third of teachers have part - time hours. Sorry if I sound negative but it seems criminal to have increased it to two years with such poor prospects.

BonCourage

Hi everyone,
I have just applied for the PME in all the NUIs nd going to apply for DCU and TCD soon! My subjects are Irish and Music, Fingers crossed I get somewhere !! I got a 2.1 in my degree, and should get 43/44 points on the PAC. Anyway, I guess I'm wondering how it's looking for these subjects, I know Irish isnt bad, but music is a niche, though there are few roles for music teachers, there are less graduants also due to the nature of music degree courses.

Thanks in advance
BonCourage

Crazyteacher

BonCourage wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I have just applied for the PME in all the NUIs nd going to apply for DCU and TCD soon! My subjects are Irish and Music, Fingers crossed I get somewhere !! I got a 2.1 in my degree, and should get 43/44 points on the PAC. Anyway, I guess I'm wondering how it's looking for these subjects, I know Irish isnt bad, but music is a niche, though there are few roles for music teachers, there are less graduants also due to the nature of music degree courses.

Thanks in advance
BonCourage

You stand a good shot having Irish. Quite a few maternity's came up in Irish this year anyway. Eventually some school will nab you with your own hours. Just not based on the music ! You stand a much better shot than me anyway , I'm English unfortunately

BonCourage

Crazyteacher wrote: »

You stand a good shot having Irish. Quite a few maternity's came up in Irish this year anyway. Eventually some school will nab you with your own hours. Just not based on the music ! You stand a much better shot than me anyway , I'm English unfortunately

CrazyTeacher, English is a lovely subject to teach.... it's a shame it's so common! Funnily enough I really wanted to study English in Uni but didn't because I knew that I wanted to do teaching and heard it was common. Would love to go back and add it on. Do you have another subject? Are you qualified already or applying? Or on the course?

BonCourage

CrazyTeacher, but English is a lovely subject to teach.... it's a shame it's so common! Funnily enough I really wanted to study English in Uni but didn't because I knew that I wanted to do teaching and heard it was common. Would love to go back and add it on. Do you have another subject? Are you qualified already or applying? Or on the course?

Crazyteacher

BonCourage wrote: »

CrazyTeacher, but English is a lovely subject to teach.... it's a shame it's so common! Funnily enough I really wanted to study English in Uni but didn't because I knew that I wanted to do teaching and heard it was common. Would love to go back and add it on. Do you have another subject? Are you qualified already or applying? Or on the course?

Yeah qualified in 2011. English is a brilliant subject and it's great if you have a passion for it. Sent you a message.

BonCourage

hey everyone, to go back to what the original post was.... Is 43 points enough to get me into PME ?