Can I drive a car which I'm insured on but not taxed

Alanbyrne88

I never declared the car off the road and I owe 370 in tax. So I got the change ofcar ownership to my mother. So can I drive the car I'm insured on it but she will be taxed on it

To Elland Back

You can't insure your mother's car

CiniO

Car can not be taxed in someone's name.
Tax is attached to the car - not owner.

If your mother is the registered owner of the car now, and you hold the insurance policy for that car, most likely you can not drive it, as most insurance policies require the car to be registered in policy holder's name.

Alanbyrne88

So the best option for me is to get the ownership changed back to my name then and then get it taxed in my name to save me paying the backtax

ted1

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

So the best option for me is to get the ownership changed back to my name then and then get it taxed in my name to save me paying the backtax

Best option is to pay tax like the rest of us

CiniO

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

So the best option for me is to get the ownership changed back to my name then and then get it taxed in my name to save me paying the backtax

You can, but this is going to take a while (a week or more).
You can do it instantly by gettin your mother to tax it, and then changing ownership to yourself.

In short your mother can tax it online anytimes (even now).
Once this is done, you can both sign the logbook with change of ownership details, and post it to Shannon. Once this is done, car is yours and it's in your name, so you can drive it straight away. All can be done even now within 10 minutes.

Only risk you are taking, is you might get fined for driving without displaying valid tax disc (until disc arrives in post in few days) which is 60 euro fine.
But if you carry printed confirmation that your mother paid the tax, and you just bought vehicle, you should be grand even at roadside check.

CiniO

ted1 wrote: »

Best option is to pay tax like the rest of us

That's exactly what OP wants to do. He is just asking how...

Alanbyrne88

ted1 wrote: »

Best option is to pay tax like the rest of us

I will be paying my tax. €200 a year ���� But I'm not paying €375 just because I haven't been using the car.

ted1

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

I will be paying my tax. €200 a year 😀😀 good man

Well then go here:
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/welcome.do;jsessionid=0aa0114830d73612e1c805064433b1dfe69720fcb95b.e38PaNaSbhuOay0Mc3uQe0
Well then be a good boy and And use the PIN retrieval

xabi

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

I will be paying my tax. €200 a year ���� But I'm not paying €375 just because I haven't been using the car.

Was the car actually off the road? if it wasn't you need to pay the tax arrears. If it was, your mistake and you need to pay the tax arrears.

Alanbyrne88

CiniO wrote: »

You can, but this is going to take a while (a week or more).
You can do it instantly by gettin your mother to tax it, and then changing ownership to yourself.

In short your mother can tax it online anytimes (even now).
Once this is done, you can both sign the logbook with change of ownership details, and post it to Shannon. Once this is done, car is yours and it's in your name, so you can drive it straight away. All can be done even now within 10 minutes.

Only risk you are taking, is you might get fined for driving without displaying valid tax disc (until disc arrives in post in few days) which is 60 euro fine.
But if you carry printed confirmation that your mother paid the tax, and you just bought vehicle, you should be grand even at roadside check.

Cheers for your reply. I only sent the change of ownership logbook yesterday. So once it's sorted she will tax it. And do I I send the change of ownership back to the Shannon straight away ? Would they get suspicious

Alanbyrne88

ted1 wrote: »

Well then go here:
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/welcome.do;jsessionid=0aa0114830d73612e1c805064433b1dfe69720fcb95b.e38PaNaSbhuOay0Mc3uQe0
Well then be a good boy and And use the PIN retrieval

I've tried to get the pin but I was told to call the tax office. He recommended me to do the change of ownership

CiniO

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

Cheers for your reply. I only sent the change of ownership logbook yesterday. So once it's sorted she will tax it.

All right it will take a small while then.
Your mother will be able to tax it (online) even before she received logbook in her name back (but once change of ownership is registered with Shannon), but only provided you filled up her email address on the change of ownership part of old logbook.

And do I I send the change of ownership back to the Shannon straight away ? Would they get suspicious

They might get as suspicious as they wish.
You are fully entitled to sell the car to your mother and then buy it straight away. None of their business.

xabi

xabi wrote: »

Was the car actually off the road? if it wasn't you need to pay the tax arrears. If it was, your mistake and you need to pay the tax arrears.

Or in either case transfer ownership and legally don't have to pay the tax arrears just as the op is doing. The level of do goodery around here is unbearable at times.

Only a complete and utter fool would waste their money paying the arrears when a perfectly legal way of not paying them is available.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

Was the car actually off the road? if it wasn't you need to pay the tax arrears.

No, he doesn't need to pay arrears.
Even if car wasn't off the road and OP was driving it,(which I'm not saying he did) he didn't get caught using it, so there is no case.
Driving untaxed vehicle is an offence.
If it was driven, law was already broken, and paying arrears now, won't change it.

If it was, your mistake and you need to pay the tax arrears.

Again, he doesn't need to pay them.
If he wasn't using the car, there was actually no law broken, as there is no obligation to declare vehicle off the road. So OP didn't do any mistake.

Alanbyrne88

CiniO wrote: »

No, he doesn't need to pay arrears.
Even if car wasn't off the road and OP was driving it,(which I'm not saying he did) he didn't get caught using it, so there is no case.
Driving untaxed vehicle is an offence.
If it was driven, law was already broken, and paying arrears now, won't change it.


Again, he doesn't need to pay them.
If he wasn't using the car, there was actually no law broken, as there is no obligation to declare vehicle off the road. So OP didn't do any mistake.

The car was sitting out there since I got it from a relative. I just couldn't afford the insurance that's why I've never used it. It was even picked up by a track to get it nctd.

xabi

Ernesto Few Candlelight wrote: »

Or in either case transfer ownership and legally don't have to pay the tax arrears just as the op is doing. The level of do goodery around here is unbearable at times.

Only a complete and utter fool would waste their money paying the arrears when a perfectly legal way of not paying them is available.

You might want to look that up

xabi

xabi wrote: »

You might want to look that up

Illegal to sell my car and suddenly decide to buy it back? Yes that's illegal alright :rolleyes::rolleyes:

xabi

Ernesto Few Candlelight wrote: »

Illegal to sell my car and suddenly decide to buy it back? Yes that's illegal alright :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Deliberately evading tax in my eyes. Loophole needs to be closed.

pheelay

xabi wrote: »

Deliberately evading tax in my eyes. Loophole needs to be closed.

It's not tax evasion. It's tax avoidance which is very different, and perfectly legal.

Yes, it's an odd loophole, but no different to any other legal method of reducing one's tax burden. The motor tax office themselves suggested it to me not long ago to workaround an odd situation.

stefanovich

Alanbyrne88 wrote: »

I never declared the car off the road and I owe 370 in tax. So I got the change ofcar ownership to my mother. So can I drive the car I'm insured on it but she will be taxed on it

How about just paying tax owed rather than trying to scam the system.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

How about just paying tax owed rather than trying to scam the system.

Not everyone is an imbecile willing to fork out hundreds in back tax unnecessarily.

The system is stupid anyway, it should have been left as it was rather than this having to declare a car off the road in advance and do it every year. Its easy to forget if you have a car off the road long term etc or have something that you never want to put back on the road.

mgbgt1978

xabi wrote: »

Deliberately evading tax in my eyes. Loophole needs to be closed.

It's not a 'Loophole'. It's included in the "Transfer of Ownership" process.
And has been included in that process for many, many Decades.

paulmclaughlin

Ernesto Few Candlelight wrote: »

The system is stupid anyway, it should have been left as it was rather than this having to declare a car off the road in advance and do it every year. Its easy to forget if you have a car off the road long term etc or have something that you never want to put back on the road.

While I agree its stupid to have to declare it off-the-road every year, the old way off doing it led to a lot of people who would pay for 3 months tax, leave the tax expired for 3 months then declare it as being off the road since the tax ran out.

The best way would be to declare it off-the-road prior and then taxing it when you want it back on the road. But the motor tax system is not one for logical thinking, charging people more for paying in installments when that's all you can afford.

CiniO

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

While I agree its stupid to have to declare it off-the-road every year, the old way off doing it led to a lot of people who would pay for 3 months tax, leave the tax expired for 3 months then declare it as being off the road since the tax ran out.

The best way would be to declare it off-the-road prior and then taxing it when you want it back on the road. But the motor tax system is not one for logical thinking, charging people more for paying in installments when that's all you can afford.

If they used logical thinking, they wouldn't come with any declarations at all.
It was already silly to require retrospective declaration, and changing it to declarations in advance in a form they did is even more nonsense.

The reason people used to drive untaxed vehicles, and they still do, is that there's hardly any fines for doing so.
For years, gards used to issue €60 fines for driving untaxed, which in fact is designed as a fine just for not displaying tax disc.
What should have happend, was to introduce really heavy fines for driving untaxed, and if that happened, we woulnd't need any declarations, which don't work anyway.

Say if caught driving untaxed, fine should be 5x value of annual tax + penalty points.

No point in requiring any declarations.

xabi

Its the deliberate tax dodgers that annoy me, no issue with genuine cases, but we all know its mostly the usual tax dodgers that are using this method. btw, not saying the OP is a tax dodger, dont know what his situation is.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

Its the deliberate tax dodgers that annoy me, no issue with genuine cases, but we all know its mostly the usual tax dodgers that are using this method. btw, not saying the OP is a tax dodger, dont know what his situation is.

What you should be annoyed with, is no tax dodgers, but authorities, which don't do anything with tax dodgers.
If there's no exforcement, there will always be tax dodgers, and no matter how much this annoys you, won't change a thing.

evo2000

All the square citizens on here lol seeing things in pure black and white, tis grand saying pay tax when uve the money for it but not everyone has, "i know i know... they shouldnt be driving then" but then some people need a car, tis a tought spot but not everythings as straight forward as people on here are making it out to be everyones situation is different.

Im not really bothered about people not paying tax **** it if u can get away with it power too u, insurance and that tho ur a scumbag if u dont have that!

Guffy

If you have the log book just go to the tax office change the oqnership there and then and pay the tax for the next 3 months or whatever

mgbgt1978

You can only do this with the old-style Brown Log Book.
With the newer VLC you have to send it off to Shannon so they can print a new one with the new owner's details.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

What you should be annoyed with, is no tax dodgers, but authorities, which don't do anything with tax dodgers.
If there's no exforcement, there will always be tax dodgers, and no matter how much this annoys you, won't change a thing.

Creating a mandatory tax or declare off road penalty is what worked in the UK. By the 7th day after expiry, it's an offence not to have done one or the other meaning that compliance levels skyrocket. Making it easy to tax or sorn is obviously a necessary part of that enforcement. It's hard to credit that changing the system omitted that necessary aspect.

Guffy

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You can only do this with the old-style Brown Log Book.
With the newer VLC you have to send it off to Shannon so they can print a new one with the new owner's details.

Vlc? Is that the green sheet of paper they send you? Thats what i used to change it if it is. They just take it and send it away. You get a new one in the post but will only do it if you're paying the tax

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

Creating a mandatory tax or declare off road penalty is what worked in the UK. By the 7th day after expiry, it's an offence not to have done one or the other meaning that compliance levels skyrocket. Making it easy to tax or sorn is obviously a necessary part of that enforcement. It's hard to credit that changing the system omitted that necessary aspect.

You are forgetting about one thing - enforcement.
In UK it worked, because people know that if they declare vehicle off the road and keep driving, they will be caught very soon, and there is not even a point in risking doing that.

If they introduced exact the same system in Ireland of the off-the-road declarations, which would be easily accessible to anyone the same as in the UK, then tax compilance would still be low as it is.
People who now excercise with changing ownership, would just declare vehicle off the road and keep driving.
They woulnd't be worried that they will get caught, as there is completely no enforcement in some areas.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

You are forgetting about one thing - enforcement.
In UK it worked, because people know that if they declare vehicle off the road and keep driving, they will be caught very soon, and there is not even a point in risking doing that.

If they introduced exact the same system in Ireland of the off-the-road declarations, which would be easily accessible to anyone the same as in the UK, then tax compilance would still be low as it is.
People who now excercise with changing ownership, would just declare vehicle off the road and keep driving.
They woulnd't be worried that they will get caught, as there is completely no enforcement in some areas.

The penalty for false declaration iirc is £1,000 and/or 6 months; much more likely to be enforced by Gardai than €60.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Say if caught driving untaxed, fine should be 5x value of annual tax + penalty points.
.

Penalty points are for safety, tax has nothing to do with safety so should never ever attract penalty points. No tax is a nothing offence, nobody rally cares about it bar a few dogooders there is no way the fine should be anymore than 60 quid for it. It would be total madness having a big fine for such a minor offence.