Family Law Judges variation on judgements

Joshua5

Hi all,

I've unfortunately found myself in the middle of family law issues and no matter what I do I seem to have the same judge time and time again. But the judge himself just doesn't believe a word I say.

I've had my knuckles rapped here for giving information in the past to answer questions but I'll give the short end of whats pretty basic now and I'd like to hear other peoples experience to see if my complaints are justified or if i need to suck it up.

Basically I've always had full weekend access, holidays etc etc. Pay full maintenance, no issues whatsoever and we are separated quite some time but due to certain reasons we fell out in April and although we are still married in the eyes of the law I realized I have very very limited rights and have to fight for everything.... She removed access immediately.

I had to apply though the courts to have access reinstated for our 3 children. I had requested business as usual and a comfortable hand over. My ex told the judge the kids don't want to see me, one of them is 12.

He ruled that I can have the kids every two weeks for 24 hours. I was absolutely shocked, no holidays or anything of the sort. And he ruled that for just two of the children. She won't allow my 12 year old out now. I haven't spoken to him since April now.

I placed an appeal but it's likely to be Feb 2016 at the earliest, which is distressful for me and the children.

So I've been sucking this up for months now and just accepting it is what it is in the hope that she sees reason but this isn't going to happen. I was considering placing a variation order to tied us over until appeal, she removed all telephone contact since then.

This happened in the district courts of Co Louth, I was actually more positive before I entered the system. But when a guy that doesn't know you makes life decisions on your family it's hard when all decisions go against you.

So here's my beef, I was working with some guys and one of them mentioned his son had some issues of this nature himself in dublin. I couldn't help but ask a little more detail and it transpires that he was locked up for 7 years for class A possession. He came out and the mum didn't want to give him access so he went to Dolphins house. He got every weekend and every Wed afternoon. I felt sick to the pit of my stomach knowing that I came of worse than this. I'll add I;ve never been in trouble with the law, I'm just your average joe, working professional getting by like everyone else.

It seems the in camera rule doesn't really help, in fact because of it the inconsistency in the rulings some dads get a raw deal in my opinion.

I'm prepared for the 'two sides of every story' comments but I'd like to hear if anyone has similar experience. Dublin judgement seem to be better...

I was and am looking to appeal and appeal until it's allowed to go to the European courts because if my interpretation is right then its a breach of my children's rights to have meaningful contact with both parents.

Not looking for advice rather to share experiences.

lifeandtimes

It's really hit and miss depending on the judge you get and how you present yourself if you have no representation which I did not have. The judge does want to help you and the child however you cannot expect the judge to just think up what's best or get ideas from previous cases ....you need to provide the judge with ideas/suggestions/options/propsals to make the right decisions and reasons why these are best for your child etc.

Iv been walked all over in the district court by my exs solicitor but have found better look in the circuit court on appeals as they are more detailed and thorough.

However since obtaining a solicitor I have had better look in the district court.

My advice get a solicitor and they will help you

Joshua5

I've used a solicitor, in fact I made it my point to make sure I was happy and comfortable with the solicitor I used.

However the judge just didn't want to know, he actually wouldn't even look at the evidence that I presented. I gave a parenting plan, I'm currently attending co-parenting classes alone... You name it I've done it.

To my horror every solicitor that I spoke to asked who the judge is for the case and their response is all the same. He's anti man. I just don't understand how this can still be happening in this day and age.

The main frustration is the time to wait for appeal, for instance I won't even get to speak to or see my kids during the xmas holidays based on his judgement.

kenmccarthy

I thought all this had changed over the last decade and a half.......I was in the war back in 2001/2002.....funny that you say you got kicked in the face in the district court yet only got a punch in stomach in circuit court on appeal....same happened to me, 4 appeals to circuit court & got a "result"( of sorts) each time....It's very wearing though....I always think that being a male starting out on the road to seperation/divorce you're really going up against the nuclear weapon. It's a bit like david&goliath but it doesn't work out like it did for david

Joshua5

kenmccarthy wrote: »

I thought all this had changed over the last decade and a half.......I was in the war back in 2001/2002.....funny that you say you got kicked in the face in the district court yet only got a punch in stomach in circuit court on appeal....same happened to me, 4 appeals to circuit court & got a "result"( of sorts) each time....It's very wearing though....I always think that being a male starting out on the road to seperation/divorce you're really going up against the nuclear weapon. It's a bit like david&goliath but it doesn't work out like it did for david

I had an appeal on Friday, waited all day and had a good solicitor. It ended up the last case and wasn't heard. But it cost me 800 for the cost of the representation. 800, of which was my rent not to mention the money lost from time of work... Kick in the balls, Feb/March if I'm lucky.

kenmccarthy

Sorry to hear that...800bucks to go stare at a courtroom wall.....and you just "might" get a re - match in Feb. /March .....The "system" is obviously running same as ever.....I remember one time in district court ( I'm talking 2003/2004) we were listed as #3...There was around 25 on the list....anyhow #1 are in the arena about 10 minutes. ...then case#2 goes in......We waited....We waited.....anyhow round half 3 we all got sent away.... whole day wasted and yet another day off work...must've been at least 20 lawyers wasting the day but I'm sure they all got paid.I know this is easy to say but you gotta hang in there and keep it together...This business about not being able to see your kids on Christmas day...that's all just part of the war....I know it's not fair or reasonable but you gotta dig deep for the long road / where you are now is **** ville with capital letters but you will see a chink of light at end of the tunnel. I spent 10 long and expensive years in the war...which is amazing really as we were only married for 20 months. Remember what Andy said to red in shawshank about "hope"!!!!!!

Joshua5

kenmccarthy wrote: »

Sorry to hear that...800bucks to go stare at a courtroom wall.....and you just "might" get a re - match in Feb. /March .....The "system" is obviously running same as ever.....I remember one time in district court ( I'm talking 2003/2004) we were listed as #3...There was around 25 on the list....anyhow #1 are in the arena about 10 minutes. ...then case#2 goes in......We waited....We waited.....anyhow round half 3 we all got sent away.... whole day wasted and yet another day off work...must've been at least 20 lawyers wasting the day but I'm sure they all got paid.I know this is easy to say but you gotta hang in there and keep it together...This business about not being able to see your kids on Christmas day...that's all just part of the war....I know it's not fair or reasonable but you gotta dig deep for the long road / where you are now is **** ville with capital letters but you will see a chink of light at end of the tunnel. I spent 10 long and expensive years in the war...which is amazing really as we were only married for 20 months. Remember what Andy said to red in shawshank about "hope"!!!!!!

Its difficult to explain the feeling, and I understand many parents have gone through the same. I never knew this sort of injustice existed. But in it all I remember my granddad, he was relatively young when my father passed away and he took the loss of his son so bad he actually never left his house again for 30 years. I could never understand why to be frank, but now I do. The degrading treatment, the removal of my rights as a father, I've felt like I never want to see the outside world again.

I know it's a long road, the problem is I see no end right now. I'm actually working two jobs to afford the legal support while she milks the legal aid board and they happily come and slate me. Its a vicious circle, she has the upper hand and I just want it to stop but she has no interest in this. When they are out for blood thats it your done.

kenmccarthy

You're in a place exactly where I was 12 years ago and it ain't a good place. I was baffled and bewildered (punch drunk really) too... like you put it "never knew this kind of injustice existed"...I couldn't catch any sort of break....maintenance was running at 70% of nett income ( seriously-70%!!!!) and every time we were in for "access" ( still hate that term ..."access".....like you're being given some kind of privilege to be able to see your own kids) it was same ol' story .....A) they won't go with him....B) they're afraid of him. There's a thing called parental alienation which I have no doubt my kids were subject to....They used to get rewards if they wouldn't come with me (after driving an hour to pick em up)......anyhow all these tricks /weapons are nothing new...It's just a fact that there is no penalty for breaching access orders....but if you breach a maintenance order you'll be back in court within a fortnight.
There is a book out called "family court" by valerie cox.....It's basically a series of random reports from the family law courts....what I find amazing is the difference in maintenance figures from county to county and from judge to judge. Seems like you get the fairest cracking of the whip in dublin

Joshua5

kenmccarthy wrote: »

You're in a place exactly where I was 12 years ago and it ain't a good place. I was baffled and bewildered (punch drunk really) too... like you put it "never knew this kind of injustice existed"...I couldn't catch any sort of break....maintenance was running at 70% of nett income ( seriously-70%!!!!) and every time we were in for "access" ( still hate that term ..."access".....like you're being given some kind of privilege to be able to see your own kids) it was same ol' story .....A) they won't go with him....B) they're afraid of him. There's a thing called parental alienation which I have no doubt my kids were subject to....They used to get rewards if they wouldn't come with me (after driving an hour to pick em up)......anyhow all these tricks /weapons are nothing new...It's just a fact that there is no penalty for breaching access orders....but if you breach a maintenance order you'll be back in court within a fortnight.
There is a book out called "family court" by valerie cox.....It's basically a series of random reports from the family law courts....what I find amazing is the difference in maintenance figures from county to county and from judge to judge. Seems like you get the fairest cracking of the whip in dublin

Its funny you mention Dublin, because i hear the exact same thing that things have changed up there.

I hear alot of fathers in my district that get access reduced, yes reduced to 24 hours every two weeks. Then I heard a completely different case for Dublin from a guy I worked with. His son did 7 years for a serious drug offence. Came out, no access and applied. Never paid maintenance and he ex didn't want to give any access.

He got every weekend, every Wed evening just like that. 'Because kids have a right to both parents'.

Needless to say I was dumbfounded.

Pat Mustard

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