Thermostat for back boiler pump

kelbal

Hi, I have a back boiler built in with my natural fire. Obviously there's a pump there. At the moment I have to manually turn the pump on when the pipes start rattling with the heat, but I'd like to build a thermostat in with this so the pump comes on automatically. My question is where do I install this? It clamps onto a copper pipe and there's a temperature setting for when it is activated. The pipe coming from the top of the back boiler gets hot first obviously. The pump is attached to the pipe coming out of the bottom of the back boiler. Which pipe do I attach the thermostat onto?

thanks

jimf

it should be fitted to the flow from the boiler as near as possible and temp set to approx. 40 degrees

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Hi, I have a back boiler built in with my natural fire. Obviously there's a pump there. At the moment I have to manually turn the pump on when the pipes start rattling with the heat, but I'd like to build a thermostat in with this so the pump comes on automatically. My question is where do I install this? It clamps onto a copper pipe and there's a temperature setting for when it is activated. The pipe coming from the top of the back boiler gets hot first obviously. The pump is attached to the pipe coming out of the bottom of the back boiler. Which pipe do I attach the thermostat onto?

thanks

The flow usually but you should never hear pipes rattling with a solid fuel appliance. How many outlets are on your back boiler?

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

it should be fitted to the flow from the boiler as near as possible and temp set to approx. 40 degrees

40 is way too low. Set to 55/60

jimf

I say approx. 40 it can always be raised

but I understand where your coming from if fitted too far from boiler 55/60 might be too high if his system is banging and rattling already

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

I say approx. 40 it can always be raised

but I understand where your coming from if fitted too far from boiler 55/60 might be too high if his system is banging and rattling already

It's set to 60 so the cylinder water can reach that temperature. Irregardless of where the stat is, the pipes shouldn't bang. That's why a solid fuel system needs a gravity circuit, because it should never rely on a stat or pump in order to disperse of the hot water from the boiler.

jimf

yes I understand exactly what your saying if you had power cut with a big fire on you would have some fun

kelbal

Thanks for replies. When you say the flow from back boiler, I'm guessing you mean pipe coming from the top of the boiler that gets hot first?

I only want the pump coming on to stop pipes clanking, so was thinking my method would be to have it set very high (90 degrees lets say), then when the fire is lit and roaring away, when the pipes start clanking, slowly lower thermostat until pump turns on, then lower it a few more degrees from there for its permanent setting

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Thanks for replies. When you say the flow from back boiler, I'm guessing you mean pipe coming from the top of the boiler that gets hot first?

I only want the pump coming on to stop pipes clanking, so was thinking my method would be to have it set very high (90 degrees lets say), then when the fire is lit and roaring away, when the pipes start clanking, slowly lower thermostat until pump turns on, then lower it a few more degrees from there for its permanent setting

No no no. Set the stat to 60 and leave it alone.
But your pipes should never clank or make noise which leads me to believe it's plumbed incorrectly. How many copper pipes are going into your back boiler? How far is the hotpress from the back boiler

kelbal

Dtp1979 wrote: »

No no no. Set the stat to 60 and leave it alone.
But your pipes should never clank or make noise which leads me to believe it's plumbed incorrectly. How many copper pipes are going into your back boiler? How far is the hotpress from the back boiler

Bit tight to see, but just seems to be one pipe coming from top & one from bottom. Typical semi d setup with hotpress in upstairs landing, pipework goes about 8ft up and then I suppose another 8 to 10 ft under a bedroom floor to the hotpress

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Bit tight to see, but just seems to be one pipe coming from top & one from bottom. Typical semi d setup with hotpress in upstairs landing, pipework goes about 8ft up and then I suppose another 8 to 10 ft under a bedroom floor to the hotpress

And the pump is downstairs at the back boiler?

kelbal

Dtp1979 wrote: »

And the pump is downstairs at the back boiler?

Yes, pump is right beside the fireplace on the pipe coming from bottom of back boiler

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Yes, pump is right beside the fireplace on the pipe coming from bottom of back boiler

Well then if it has only 2 pipes leaving the boiler, then you don't have a gravity circuit. You have an extremely dangerous situation. Do not light the fire again until you get a plumber who understands gravity pipe work on a solid fuel installation

kelbal

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Well then if it has only 2 pipes leaving the boiler, then you don't have a gravity circuit. You have an extremely dangerous situation. Do not light the fire again until you get a plumber who understands gravity pipe work on a solid fuel installation

Its been there a long time, we've been lighting fires for the 10 years we've been here, what's wrong with it, what could happen?

Thanks

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Its been there a long time, we've been lighting fires for the 10 years we've been here, what's wrong with it, what could happen?

Thanks

Your pump is on the gravity circuit. Therefore it has a valve either side of it. Therefore you don't have a gravity circuit. Also there must NEVER be any valve between the back boiler and cylinder. At best, you get someone to fix it. Worst case scenario is potentially an explosion that'll destroy anything, including people, anything with 10 metres of the boiler if something goes wrong.

Walter Becket

To improve the safety of your system you need another pipe probably 3/4 inch from the return radiator pipework to where the pump is now and you need to put the pump on the new pipe you need to fit an injection tee you will have to make changes to the return pipe in the hot press as well. You should use copper pipe and brass fittings with only metal parts. Waterford Stanley have a good diagram in their instillation manual

Dtp1979

Walter Becket wrote: »

To improve the safety of your system you need another pipe probably 3/4 inch from the return radiator pipework to where the pump is now and you need to put the pump on the new pipe you need to fit an injection tee you will have to make changes to the return pipe in the hot press as well. You should use copper pipe and brass fittings with only metal parts. Waterford Stanley have a good diagram in their instillation manual

True but it's far from a diy job at this stage

Walter Becket

Dtp1979 wrote: »

True but it's far from a diy job at this stage

I don't think it's for me to say what skills Kelbal has who knows maby he or she is a rocket engineer.

Dtp1979

Walter Becket wrote: »

I don't think it's for me to say what skills Kelbal has who knows maby he or she is a rocket engineer.

If she/he had the skills or knowledge necessary then they wouldn't be on here asking questions

kelbal

Well, I've done all my own plumbing since moving into the house (new radiators, pump to improve pressure at bath taps and a bit more), but I haven't had the need to approach the whole back boiler arrangement before.
The arrangement is probably a bit more complex than I had indicated, and seems to be along the lines of what Walter mentions......



Thanks for the warnings Dtp1979, but maybe this system is a bit better? MY understanding was that the dangers with back boilers were when the were disconnected from the system and another fire put in on top of them.

With my system, would the thermostat go at the pump (pipe from bottom of boiler), or at the pipe coming from the top?

thanks

Walter Becket

Maby the skill but not the knowledge.
Don't you ever need to ask someone how something works. I know I do. I have the skills but not always the knowledge

Walter Becket

The pipe coming from the top.

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Well, I've done all my own plumbing since moving into the house (new radiators, pump to improve pressure at bath taps and a bit more), but I haven't had the need to approach the whole back boiler arrangement before.
The arrangement is probably a bit more complex than I had indicated, and seems to be along the lines of what Walter mentions......



Thanks for the warnings Dtp1979, but maybe this system is a bit better? MY understanding was that the dangers with back boilers were when the were disconnected from the system and another fire put in on top of them.

With my system, would the thermostat go at the pump (pipe from bottom of boiler), or at the pipe coming from the top?

thanks

Back boiler piping is as dangerous as any solid fuel appliance piping. You're pipe work looks like it's all 3/4"??

kelbal

thanks Walter

kelbal

yeah think its all 3/4

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

yeah think its all 3/4

That explains a lot. I can't stress this enough, solid fuel gravity pipe work must be 1"

kelbal

Dtp1979 wrote: »

kelbal wrote: »

yeah think its all 3/4

That explains a lot. I can't stress this enough, solid fuel gravity pipe work must be 1"

Ok, thanks. It'd be major ripping apart of the house to redo it, so I'll leave it as is. Putting the thermostat in is part of getting it running it more efficiently. I'll install it on the pipe coming from the top of the boiler as Walter suggested
thanks lads

Dtp1979

kelbal wrote: »

Ok, thanks. It'd be major ripping apart of the house to redo it, so I'll leave it as is. Putting the thermostat in is part of getting it running it more efficiently. I'll install it on the pipe coming from the top of the boiler as Walter suggested
thanks lads

That's ok. If Walter says it ok then work away. Shur I'm only guessing at what safe plumbing practice is.