What's the most profitable beef enterprise?

Feckthis

Suckler or calf to beef?

dohc turbo2

Tegasc say suckler and finish at 16 month is most profitable , from profit monitors

Miname

Sell the lot and live off the interest.

blue5000

Meat Processing Enterprise. I don't think larry owns too many suckler cows.

CloughCasey1

I would say calf to beef at 20-24mts. From Nov calves hex. Cost €280 as calf at 24mts with 30kg per month should kill out 380kg dead. €1600.

Suckler to 16mth should on average kill out the same but possibly another €100 for better grading on grid. Only difference is cost of the cow am i correct at €550 and 8mts shorter time on the ground and all depending how soon cow back in calf again.

1600-280= 1320

1700-550= 1150

Suckler to 16mts will probably win out with cost rearing calf and pushing to make the 30kg per month target and fact that cow will have calf on the ground that bit sooner.

west79

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

I would say calf to beef at 20-24mts. From Nov calves hex. Cost €280 as calf at 24mts with 30kg per month should kill out 380kg dead. €1600.

Suckler to 16mth should on average kill out the same but possibly another €100 for better grading on grid. Only difference is cost of the cow am i correct at €550 and 8mts shorter time on the ground and all depending how soon cow back in calf again.

1600-280= 1320

1700-550= 1150

Suckler to 16mts will probably win out with cost rearing calf and pushing to make the 30kg per month target and fact that cow will have calf on the ground that bit sooner.

With sucklers you half half Bulls half heifers. I don't think it is possible to finish heifers at 16months but I could be wrong. There is also the extra cost of a good high protein meal for hex calves to get them to 9 months.

CloughCasey1

west79 wrote: »

With sucklers you half half Bulls half heifers. I don't think it is possible to finish heifers at 16months but I could be wrong. There is also the extra cost of a good high protein meal for hex calves to get them to 9 months.

That's a fact. 13quid per 25kg bag for soya bean meal but worth every cent.

Panch18

I would say any enterprise that doesn't involve having a suckler cow in it

The costs they incur, the amount of ground they take up, the sheds needed (if needed) - its completely inefficient

Good loser

Calf to beef, or to store I'd say.

Depending on prices maybe store to beef.

patsy_mccabe

Panch18 wrote: »

I would say any enterprise that doesn't involve having a suckler cow in it

The costs they incur, the amount of ground they take up, the sheds needed (if needed) - its completely inefficient

No suckler cows - no beef cattle, only half bred beef dairy calves and full dairy calves. Now these are inefficient feed convertors.

Panch18

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

No suckler cows - no beef cattle, only half bred beef dairy calves and full dairy calves. Now these are inefficient feed convertors.

hmmm simple solution is don't pump meal into them then!!

Cavanjack

Panch18 wrote: »

hmmm simple solution is don't pump meal into them then!!

There can be money made on any system including pumping meal into friesian Bulls. If they are bought at the right price, reared at the right price and killed at the right price they will leave money. Problem is getting all three together.
If I remember right back a few months ago pudsey showed examples of jersey bullocks that left as much money as anything.

patsy_mccabe

I reckon it's all the same, no matter what enterprise you have. I've done it all over the years, single suckling, multi suckling, calf to beef, finished the odd bull and cow. Find it hard to believe that there is one area of beef that is so much more profitable than the other, that everyone else misses out on. You have to take the good and the bad of any system and average profits out over a number of years.

It's down to what suits you best, land type, experience. How much time you are willing to spend working each week, off farm job etc. No easy money, that's for sure.

barnaman

I am in Suckler to beef and store to beef. Suckler is really more hassle than worth. Beef Genomics means need to have 4 and 5 star everything really. BVD to watch out for I got it this year although herd clear (all cattle tested) and vaccinated it against it for 2 years running, difficult calvings, dehorning, weaning etc. With stores very few health problems and its a simple feed managment issue by and large. So for time and effort required stores much more profitable.

Miname

Every one of the enterprises can be profitable but a lot of it is down to management and set up. Sucklers can make money and there's great satisfaction in it but it's really only a top up for a day job. Buying the big ch type cattle means you'll get the big dough but you'll have the big out lay at the start and you need to know your animals well and how they'll kill out. Friesains can work well too but you definately can't afford to be mealing them at the wrong times. Pudsey could make money off them but not every lad can. I've seen a few lads buying nice heifers at 450 plus kgs and putting them incalf and selling springing . This is a simple plan but like that they need to be the real good ones to pull in the big money, but the countries being flooded with these the last year or so and I can't see it lasting much longer.

CloughCasey1

Miname wrote: »

Every one of the enterprises can be profitable but a lot of it is down to management and set up. Sucklers can make money and there's great satisfaction in it but it's really only a top up for a day job. Buying the big ch type cattle means you'll get the big dough but you'll have the big out lay at the start and you need to know your animals well and how they'll kill out. Friesains can work well too but you definately can't afford to be mealing them at the wrong times. Pudsey could make money off them but not every lad can. I've seen a few lads buying nice heifers at 450 plus kgs and putting them incalf and selling springing . This is a simple plan but like that they need to be the real good ones to pull in the big money, but the countries being flooded with these the last year or so and I can't see it lasting much longer.

I think Pudseys way of thinking has little it no meal involved. Top quality grass all year round and fresh paddocks every few days and top quality silage. He'd still only buy at value even with Fr and Frx. Too many lads have to be seen to buy the best and have nice cattle to look at no matter what the final cost to his pocket.

memorystick

I used to buy handy heifers 250-300 kg in November and keep until slaughter after 16 months. Always worked out well. Simple system and cheap way of stocking ground. Also buying reared fr bulls and keeping till slaughter as bullocks was also feasible.

F.D

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

I would say calf to beef at 20-24mts. From Nov calves hex. Cost €280 as calf at 24mts with 30kg per month should kill out 380kg dead. €1600.

Would these be finishing as bulls or steers?
They would need fair pushing to get them gone at 24 months as steers or what would you feed them over to keep the weight up over the winter ?
i agree on the hex /aax is the best as the bonuses help make up the price when finishing
but last spring it was had to buy a good one under 300 euro too many lads looking for them

_Brian

F.D wrote: »

Would these be finishing as bulls or steers?
They would need fair pushing to get them gone at 24 months as steers or what would you feed them over to keep the weight up over the winter ?
i agree on the hex /aax is the best as the bonuses help make up the price when finishing
but last spring it was had to buy a good one under 300 euro too many lads looking for them

The majority of hex bulls in these parts are making closer to €350 for good stock, above €400 has been seen.
But maybe bringing them all the way through to the factory floor leaves money anyway.

I wouldn't have thought that they would be for for killing at 24 months having only consumed 750kg of meal,

CloughCasey1

F.D wrote: »

Would these be finishing as bulls or steers?
They would need fair pushing to get them gone at 24 months as steers or what would you feed them over to keep the weight up over the winter ?
i agree on the hex /aax is the best as the bonuses help make up the price when finishing
but last spring it was had to buy a good one under 300 euro too many lads looking for them

Steers. Ya you'd need to keep their noses in high protien meal for first yr to build frame high quality grass and finish in shed. You'd only have one winter with them so big gain there.

Base price

I have been thinking about this thread for the last few days. In my experience there is not real certainty in any beef enterprise unless you own a slaughter/beef processing operation.
If you are prepared to be flexible, not follow current trends and be in ahead of others than you can make a healthy margin.
A simple example in my case. I normally rear a few calves every year. Everything from FR to Continental bulls. This Spring I didn't bother to compete as prices IMO were way too high. When Dairy farmers were getting between €20-€50 for JEx bull calves (slaughter value last year was €5) I kept my money under the bed in the biscuit tin.
Sometimes the best policy is to hold hard and not follow the trend.
The wheel keeps turning and if you are paitent (financially) your will get your rewards.

CloughCasey1

Base price wrote: »

I have been thinking about this thread for the last few days. In my experience there is not real certainty in any beef enterprise unless you own a slaughter/beef processing operation.
If you are prepared to be flexible, not follow current trends and be in ahead of others than you can make a healthy margin.
A simple example in my case. I normally rear a few calves every year. Everything from FR to Continental bulls. This Spring I didn't bother to compete as prices IMO were way too high. When Dairy farmers were getting between €20-€50 for JEx bull calves (slaughter value last year was €5) I kept my money under the bed in the biscuit tin.
Sometimes the best policy is to hold hard and not follow the trend.
The wheel keeps turning and if you are paitent (financially) your will get your rewards.

What interest on your savings was the biscuit tin giving ya?
If you only made 80 apiece on the sucks would leave ya more than any bank or credit union never mind your magical money making biscuit tin! ;-)

Muckit

When calves are selling for near the price of a weanling, what money do you make when the arse falls out of things? And dairy bred stock are the first to to take the hit.

If she buys all around her when the price hits the floor, then she can't lose. If price stays down she's in the green. If beef price rises, all ships rise and she creams it.

I'm with BP on this. Sometimes you are better off play pocket billards or in BP''s case.....sit on her hands!

smokey-fitz

Muckit wrote: »

When calves are selling for near the price of a weanling, what money do you make when the arse falls out of things? And dairy bred stock are the first to to take the hit.

If she buys all around her when the price hits the floor, then she can't lose. If price stays down she's in the green. If beef price rises, all ships rise and she creams it.

I'm with BP on this. Sometimes you are better off play pocket billards or in BP''s case.....sit on her hands!

I agree to a point. But what happens when prices stay up and your stock numbers are going way down. Your kinda shooting yourself in the foot in a way. Been conservative is good but not to a point where you stop buying in stock.

If your in a calf system and prices are near weanling prices, then buy weanlings. They would be much better value at that stage. The good thing about drystock is the flexibility.

CloughCasey1

Muckit wrote: »

When calves are selling for near the price of a weanling, what money do you make when the arse falls out of things? And dairy bred stock are the first to to take the hit.

If she buys all around her when the price hits the floor, then she can't lose. If price stays down she's in the green. If beef price rises, all ships rise and she creams it.

I'm with BP on this. Sometimes you are better off play pocket billards or in BP''s case.....sit on her hands!

There is always always always value to be got!!!

Willfarman

Ap2014 must be on a world cruise with his winnings! Thought he'd have a good input here at this stage.

Kovu

Willfarman wrote: »

Ap2014 must be on a world cruise with his winnings! Thought he'd have a good input here at this stage.

CloughCasey1

Willfarman wrote: »

Ap2014 must be on a world cruise with his winnings! Thought he'd have a good input here at this stage.

He got shot in the back sure

Willfarman

War is terrible yoke... Il buy a poppy for ya ap. Trumpet Paar pum Paar pum

Miname

got talking to a lad a few months back. he was saying he was badly srapped for cash in the spring so wasnt able to stock up. he decided to buy any sort of a rat of a calf he could. aa for 100-120, wh for 150 and jersey at an average of e5. they all got the same treatment, one bag of milk replacer and one bag of crunch and thrown out onto good grass. these were the scraps most lads didnt want but he kept them for 4 months. the aa and whitehead sold for 450-570 and the jerseys sold from 220-320. as he put it for damn all labour and he had built up a few more quid and was leaving him in a better position to stock up next year. hed be just sitting still if he hadnt tried to turn something. theres always a few small quid to be made farming its just you cant be proud and sometimes it requires a bit of out of the box thinking. even when cattle are cheap id often be thinking they are too dear but when its taken one with the other its never too bad, the lads that usually get caught are the ones that want 40 cattle and want them today and are the same ones that sell all the same day. if they are dear bought and cheap sold there'll be a lot of crying.

bogman_bass

Feeding cull cows can be very profitable but you need a good dose of luck with them

barnaman

Miname wrote: »

got talking to a lad a few months back. he was saying he was badly srapped for cash in the spring so wasnt able to stock up. he decided to buy any sort of a rat of a calf he could. aa for 100-120, wh for 150 and jersey at an average of e5. they all got the same treatment, one bag of milk replacer and one bag of crunch and thrown out onto good grass. these were the scraps most lads didnt want but he kept them for 4 months. the aa and whitehead sold for 450-570 and the jerseys sold from 220-320. as he put it for damn all labour and he had built up a few more quid and was leaving him in a better position to stock up next year. hed be just sitting still if he hadnt tried to turn something. theres always a few small quid to be made farming its just you cant be proud and sometimes it requires a bit of out of the box thinking. even when cattle are cheap id often be thinking they are too dear but when its taken one with the other its never too bad, the lads that usually get caught are the ones that want 40 cattle and want them today and are the same ones that sell all the same day. if they are dear bought and cheap sold there'll be a lot of crying.

But lads like this must only be buying a few cattle. Not many AA calves for €100 knocking around and would say be tricky to source them in numbers. It also depends how much land and grass you have. If the grass is there something needs to be grazing it; also minimum LSUs to consider although thats gotten easier. A lad buying 40 cattle cannot be buying 4 one week 3 the next etc he has to buy them at some stage and pretty much in the one bunch. The reality is lots lads are/were just buying a few cattle to justify their REPS, SFP and Disadvantaged area payments what the cattle made or lost was irrelvant to them.

larthehar

There is no hidden gems in farming.. There are a huge amount of factors making different systems profitable for different ppl .
- scale
- time available to work
- captial available
- etc

Also I believe there is a balance to be achieved, if everybody is doing the same thing there is an over supply and ppl get screwed.. The bull beef was a typical scenario...

Everybody had to look at their own system and see what suits..

simx

bogman_bass wrote: »

Feeding cull cows can be very profitable but you need a good dose of luck with them

A lot more health issues towards young cattle though, lameness, mastitis being two major ones along with age related problems

bogman_bass

simx wrote: »

A lot more health issues towards young cattle though, lameness, mastitis being two major ones along with age related problems

That's what I mean needing by needing a dose of luck with them. if they everything goes right they can leave a nice bit after them but that doesn't happen all that often

farawaygrass

Base price wrote: »

I have been thinking about this thread for the last few days. In my experience there is not real certainty in any beef enterprise unless you own a slaughter/beef processing operation.
If you are prepared to be flexible, not follow current trends and be in ahead of others than you can make a healthy margin.
A simple example in my case. I normally rear a few calves every year. Everything from FR to Continental bulls. This Spring I didn't bother to compete as prices IMO were way too high. When Dairy farmers were getting between €20-€50 for JEx bull calves (slaughter value last year was €5) I kept my money under the bed in the biscuit tin.
Sometimes the best policy is to hold hard and not follow the trend.
The wheel keeps turning and if you are paitent (financially) your will get your rewards.

I'd agree with you 110%, when everyone is at something, look away.

Willfarman

As a real good cattle dealing man said to me one time "when I knew nothing I made a few pound, and ever since I got to thinking I knew something I made nothing"..

There's no silver bullet. It's all swings and roundabouts.

If you make a few bob. A ffing big hole somewhere opens up for it and gulp its gone!
This time next year Rodney we could be millionaires.

patsy_mccabe

Was talking to a neighbour yesterday and he pointed out a small Angus x Fr cow he had. 15 Years old and she reared 6 bull calves last year.:rolleyes:

visatorro

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Was talking to a neighbour yesterday and he pointed out a small Angus x Fr cow he had. 15 Years old and she reared 6 bull calves last year.:rolleyes:

There's probably a few at it but jaysus there's alot of work in that aswell.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Was talking to a neighbour yesterday and he pointed out a small Angus x Fr cow he had. 15 Years old and she reared 6 bull calves last year.:rolleyes:

What about this year

patsy_mccabe

Working away this year too. 2 periods of 3 months and 3 calves each time. Dead quiet cow, will let anything drink her.

bullnuts

Sorry to butt in on the thread !I'm not very experienced but enjoy farming ! I do know enough to know it's a labour of love ! maybe I could get some advice here please ! ! I have a few angus bulls 10 months old and weaning them today ! I couldn't guess what weight but they haven't been getting any meal until now ! I got beef flav today and intend giving this for a few weeks ! Should I add soya meal or feed ration or just sell now? What's the advice please anyones experience

Nekarsulm

Most profitable beef enterprise........



Sell the hide..

Sam Kade

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Working away this year too. 2 periods of 3 months and 3 calves each time. Dead quiet cow, will let anything drink her.

Did you try yourself Patsy