Don't know what to do when rolling

maxtor100

I've just started BJJ and I've just finished my second class. We've mainly just been practicing different positions and a few basic submissions and I've been loving it so far. For the last 15 or 20 minutes of the class we roll together and I can never get into the positions we've practiced. I'm only one of 2 newbies so we're rolling with blue and purple belts. I know I'm only 2 classes in but can anyone give me an estimate as to when I will be able to actually give these guys a challenge. All I'm doing is lying on the ground, wasting energy and doing my best not to expose my arm or neck. It got particularly frustrating in my last class as I was submitted about 4 or 5 times in 10 minutes.
Any info or advice appreciated! Cheers

Chris89

pulled the old account out of retirement for this one

It takes a long time bro, im a purple belt just like your training partner - i started training about 9 years ago.

I teach beginners nearly every day, and i often spar with them too (although i usually get guys to wait a class or two before trying rolling - in some cases even longer - but thats just me, nothing wrong with getting in the mix on day 1). Unless youre extremely strong, athletic, big, tall, fat or have some other martial arts experience: its going to take a LONG time before youre putting up a challenge.

In an ideal world, youd have loads of guys with the same experience as you, a few with less, and a few with more. The guys with less experience will be easier to get your moves off on, the guys with the same will be a tough battle, and you will more than likely be working your defence, or tapping regularly with those more experienced partners.

Dont forget, that your training partners are getting better too. The purple and blue belts have trained for years no doubt - and have rolled with so many white belts like you. Its very unlikely you will be able to surprise them, and it sounds like you guys are training in the same class - so theyre probably practicing the same moves as you! Also, as you progress, they do too. So sometimes some guys will always be out of reach! Thats something that takes some getting used to - but training with people who can beat you is what you need.

If you joined a cookery school and you were the best cook on your first day, even though there were cooks with 5+ years of experience there - would you stay at the school?

As for what to do when youre rolling; just keep doing what you mentioned above. Dont expose your arm or neck, dont waste energy, on top look to keep your balance and stay out of closed guard and on bottom try to off balance the guy to open him up. If youre uncomfortable on bottom, focus on closed guard and suck that ****ker in. Closed guard is a great position for beginners, really narrows down the options for the guy on top.

Its a LONG road, i train with people daily who make me feel like what you have posted above, you cannot let it frustrate you though. Surely thats what we signed up for!!

Good luck on your journey mate, Im about 10 bags of haribo deep here - no trick or treaters! so excuse me if that didnt make any sense.

Happy to offer some advice if you have any specific questions.

Mellor

maxtor100 wrote: »

I'm only one of 2 newbies so we're rolling with blue and purple belts. I know I'm only 2 classes in but can anyone give me an estimate as to when I will be able to actually give these guys a challenge

Are there no other white belts at the gym? Just you two new guys?
To bo honest, I'll take a long time to nullify the head-start they have on you. But after a few months, you'll possibly have moments where you'll briefly get the upper hand and force them to work.

In two years you might have a blue belt, but the blues and purples, if they are as consistent as you. Will be purples and browns respectively. The key part is consistency. The only real way to close the gap is to be more consistent than them, to train more.

But ultimately I think focusing on these guys is the wrong idea. The advanced guys when I started, are still the advanced guys. Instead focus on guys closer to your level, the other new guy, or the white belts. It'll be much easier to spot your progress. And remember, if 3 months time, two other people will be the newbies

Subcomandante Marcos

John Kavanagh says that there is a three pronged method to improving you game and get to blue belt are:

1: Go to training

2: Wear your Gi

3: Listen to your trainer

When I started out I felt the way you did when even rolling with other white belts who only had a few months experience over me. Now I'm hoping to get my blue before the end of the year and rolling with blue and purple belts and not feeling like I'm completely hopeless, even getting them to tap from time to time.

BJJ has one of the steepest learning curves of anything I've every tried but the pay off is definitely worth it. As an art form and as a mode of exercise it's just so much fun to practice.

Graph below adapted from old eve-online thing.

RoboRat

All I'm doing is lying on the ground, wasting energy and doing my best not to expose my arm or neck.

You have already started learning the basics then.

Look, BJJ is not the same as traditional MA's and I think that is the crux of the problem for most people who start. You need to learn the basics first and learn how to defend before you start sweeps and subs. I can't remember who it was that said they just focussed for the first 2 years on becoming impossible to sub, then they started focussing on the rest (Royce Gracie I think).

You are training with people who have a LOT more experience than you but its worth noting, they were in your shoes once and they persevered. You should talk to your training partners and let them know how you feel about everything. Nearly anyone who I have trained with or rolled with is happy to help and pass on the knowledge. I know that when I roll with less experienced guys and I sub them, I usually take the time to let them know how I got the sub and how they can defend it and I have noticed that most of them are taking it on board and becoming harder to sub (bastards).

You will spend the first few months on your back, defending, but you need to digest everything and then you sill start being able to counter and having a lot of fun. Stick with it, its hard but worth it.

TitianGerm

I started BJJ in a club in April 2013. Being the smallest guy in class at 57KG I got absolutely hammered class after class. Guys couldnt control their strength and just lost the run of themselves trying to tap the new guy.

This went on for about six months and in those six months I improved my defense so much. I quickly spotted everyones favourite moves and learned to counter them. As time went by and I got more experience I then started attacking and submitting the more experienced/bigger guys. This time will come for you as well, just be patient.

I got a blue belt in October 2014 and hope to get a purple in by the end of 2017. It's a long road but if you stick it out you will come to love the sport.

I'm looking forward to my first session back this week after been out for 6 weeks with a back injury. I'll be sore afterwards but leaving with a smile on my face

Mouthalmighty

Dude it takes time. But having said that if you were able to manage higher belts with only a few classes BJJ would be a crap martial art. Those purple and blue belts have trained for years, essentially you are comparing a child of 4-7 years (the blue and purple belts) to a new born (you). Please don't take offence to that, I am a blue belt but I had to take time off a few years back (about 8months) when I went back I got twisted inside out by guys who were my level. It's just work and patience my friend. Eventually they'll have to work to get you, and remember everytime you have to defend yourself you are learning, focus on good technical defense for the next few months and you will find that. Then throw in an offensive move or two and away you go. Remember it is a journey.

BOHtox

emmetkenny wrote: »

I started BJJ in a club in April 2013. Being the smallest guy in class at 57KG I got absolutely hammered class after class. Guys couldnt control their strength and just lost the run of themselves trying to tap the new guy.

This went on for about six months and in those six months I improved my defense so much. I quickly spotted everyones favourite moves and learned to counter them. As time went by and I got more experience I then started attacking and submitting the more experienced/bigger guys. This time will come for you as well, just be patient.

I got a blue belt in October 2014 and hope to get a purple in by the end of 2017. It's a long road but if you stick it out you will come to love the sport.

I'm looking forward to my first session back this week after been out for 6 weeks with a back injury. I'll be sore afterwards but leaving with a smile on my face

Out of curiosity how much do you weigh now? And has the change been a result of additional gym work or natural muscle gain, if any, from the physical exercise of BJJ?

TitianGerm

BOHtox wrote: »

Out of curiosity how much do you weigh now? And has the change been a result of additional gym work or natural muscle gain, if any, from the physical exercise of BJJ?

I'm 62KG at the minute but put on 4/5 KG when I was out injured. So I'd still walk around at 57/58KG when doing any sort of training.

No gym work bar the few weights in training and I'm starting Yoga shortly.

I'm hoping to compete next year if i can get time off work but all my previous competitions have been at 64KG in the Gi when I weigh in usually 57/57.5KG(very few if any entries at Rooster weight)

BOHtox

emmetkenny wrote: »

I'm 62KG at the minute but put on 4/5 KG when I was out injured. So I'd still walk around at 57/58KG when doing any sort of training.

No gym work bar the few weights in training and I'm starting Yoga shortly.

I'm hoping to compete next year if i can get time off work but all my previous competitions have been at 64KG in the Gi when I weigh in usually 57/57.5KG(very few if any entries at Rooster weight)

Ah sound. I'm 6' and about 66 kilos so I'm happy to know that there's people of our weight training and I won't go up and be up against 80kg black belts.

I'm sure this doesn't happen anyway but it's just a fear everyone has before you start

TitianGerm

BOHtox wrote: »

Ah sound. I'm 6' and about 66 kilos so I'm happy to know that there's people of our weight training and I won't go up and be up against 80kg black belts.

I'm sure this doesn't happen anyway but it's just a fear everyone has before you start

No all competitions are ranked, so white belts compete against white, blue against blue etc.

Just stick with it and don't put to much pressure on yourself to be beating everyone. Nobody likes that guy in the gym

Oh and if you get caught in a sub just tap. No point getting injured if you can't escape.

Mellor

BOHtox wrote: »

Ah sound. I'm 6' and about 66 kilos so I'm happy to know that there's people of our weight training and I won't go up and be up against 80kg black belts.

I'm sure this doesn't happen anyway but it's just a fear everyone has before you start

In addition to rank, you are grouped by weight. At 66kg, you are a in the featherweight division (67kg). Somebody over 80kg would be 3 divisions higher.

alex.middleton

the same way after playing street fighter for months you begin to memorize the different combos and timing required to pull them off your jiu jitsu mind will evolve gradually and patiently.

Subcomandante Marcos

alex.middleton wrote: »

the same way after playing street fighter for months you begin to memorize the different combos and timing required to pull them off your jiu jitsu mind will evolve gradually and patiently.

Exactly.

When you stop thinking about it before you do it and start doing as you're thinking and it become more muscle memory/instinctive. Like when you're walking you're not thinking "left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot..." You just do it, you're thinking I need to turn a left here and adjust for it but you don't have the dialog in your head, you just do it.

If you hear a car coming when you're crossing the road you don't think of I better stop walking, you just do it.
It gets to be the same way, you start to process it and weighing up your options in milliseconds instead of seconds and that makes the difference.