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Sash windows

  • 29-10-2015 7:30am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭


    I've been told recently that sash windows can be draughty and only keep out the draughts as long as the 'brushes' inside them last.
    Would it be true that they can give trouble down the line ? I also just saw the other thread about problems with sash windows also.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    The 'Brushes' can easily be replaced. I'm the OP of the other thread.

    If all my sash windows had been fitted 'squared' like my two kitchen sash windows I'd actually be on here singing their praises rather than moaning about them. Those two Kitchen sash windows frames aren't out of square like all the others and thus close nice and tight with no gaps and thus all the various gaskets and seals can do their job.

    When I finally copped on to the performance of those two particular windows I went from thinking that the design of sashes must intrinsically not be able to meet the sound and draught performance that I expected, to actually being astonished at how good they could be.

    Once I resolve the issues with all my other sashes in order to get them to perform like those two kitchen sashes, I'll be living in an oasis of quiet and calm in the middle of what is a very busy road junction and a through road for drunken weekend revellers from the cluster of popular local bars/pubs/nightclubs.

    No sound intrusion also de facto means no draught intrusion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    What's the opinions on sash windows in general?, in the middle of getting plans done up for a new build, traditional farmhouse look, sash seem to suit window size best and look good but the u values are not great (1.4 for upvc), obviously more expensive than standard casement but it's the energy rating that concerns me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    We opted not to go the sash route because of the fear of air leaks. We found really nice 'French' style windows that close in on themselves (casement). They all passed the blower test last week except one but it just needs an adjustment to tighten. They're expensive but maybe you could use them on the front of your house as a compromise?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    I was all set to put sash on the front of my house only, but then the window suppliers told me that you can't do two tone in sash (one colour on the inside and one colour on the outside) so am thinking of not going for them. I didn't even realise they had a lower U-value than casement/tilt n turn...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    I was all set to put sash on the front of my house only, but then the window suppliers told me that you can't do two tone in sash (one colour on the inside and one colour on the outside) so am thinking of not going for them. I didn't even realise they had a lower U-value than casement/tilt n turn...

    As well as U value I'd be a bit worried about how air tight they'd be in 5, 10... years time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    I was all set to put sash on the front of my house only, but then the window suppliers told me that you can't do two tone in sash (one colour on the inside and one colour on the outside) so am thinking of not going for them. I didn't even realise they had a lower U-value than casement/tilt n turn...

    Surely that's only PVC Sashes or a factory paint job on wooden sashes. Can't see any issue with painting wooden sashes different colours inside and out yourself ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    Calibos wrote: »
    Surely that's only PVC Sashes or a factory paint job on wooden sashes. Can't see any issue with painting wooden sashes different colours inside and out yourself ??

    Wooden sashes are you having a laugh? The draughty/constantly getting stuck wooden sashes of old?

    Why would anyone put wooden windows of any type (apart from Aluclad) unless you were renovating a period home and have to (or perhaps to save money)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    Wooden sashes are you having a laugh? The draughty/constantly getting stuck wooden sashes of old?

    Why would anyone put wooden windows of any type (apart from Aluclad) unless you were renovating a period home and have to (or perhaps to save money)

    Modern hardwood windows are miles away from the old traditional single glazed windows from the 70's. The only downside i can see from modern hardwood windows is the lack of a thermal break with the solid frames. Other than that they look great with slimmer frames than upvc (and aluclad in a lot of cases) and can be painted any colour you like so more options than aluclad.

    I know people with decent hardwood windows in their houses that havent been touched in 10 years and are still perfect...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    Wooden sashes are you having a laugh? The draughty/constantly getting stuck wooden sashes of old?

    Why would anyone put wooden windows of any type (apart from Aluclad) unless you were renovating a period home and have to (or perhaps to save money)

    If you are fitting sashes you are not looking to save money!, wooden ones are about 25% more expensive than upvc, I'm looking at upvc, the windows are 1m x 1.7m so probably a little narrow for French style casement, I'll have to go see some to see what they are like. The sliding sash u values aren't great most around 1.4 where as casement double glazed are around 1.1 - 1.2, you need to go triple glazed to get down to 0.8 - 0.9.
    I'd like to go top hung casement (the top half of the window) but then the opening is too high to meet fire regs on upstairs bedrooms


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,816 ✭✭✭Calibos


    On the one hand one reads a lot of fretting about U values on windows and yet on the other hand some of the very same respondents advocating lower u values in one thread will, in other threads, advocate not worrying about the windows and advise focusing on insulation instead because the payback on windows in terms of heat loss and savings can be longer than their lifespan. Confuses the hell out of me? In light of that, I'm not sure worrying about 1.1 vs 1.3 or basing window style decisions based on that is the right way to go.

    I think a lot of insulation type info is taken as black or white with no grey area. When in fact there is a grey area depending on cost and requirements etc

    For example, 300mm of loft insulation is the recommended amount. Assuming people also need their attic for storage, People fret about all the extra cost and disruption and height restrictions because they think they 'have to' install cross joists over their attic joists to raise the floor of the attic to accommodate 300mm of loft roll. Turns out that 85% of the insulation efficiency savings is in the first 200mm. If the persons attic has 150mm joists, then installing 150mm of loft roll between the joists and then the OSB attic flooring sheets with the 50-70mm of attached foam insulation brings ones attic to 220mm of insulation which brings efficiency up to nearly 90%. Is it really worth all the hassle, extra cost and loss of space of cross joisting just to achieve that last 10%?

    Similarly, is it worth not getting the type or style of window you'd prefer just because your preferred is 1.3 but others are 1.1. Is that 0.2 really going to make much of a difference considering that even going from 20 year old single glazed to new low u-value DG might not even make enough of a difference to have the payback period within the lifetime of the new windows or your expected time in that particular house before you sell. In that example, say the ultra low u value cost 10 grand and save you 500 euro a year on your heating bills. That's a 20 year payback. Are you even going to be still in that house in 20 years? Is it really worth changing the old windows? You might want to change them regardless because the old windows look grotty. You don't actually care about the payback period because you want new fresh aesthetically pleasing windows regardless. Well then why worry about 0.2 differences in U values. Any new window is going to blow the old grotty ones out of the water anyway even if it is 1.3 or even 1.5 or something.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    Calibos wrote: »
    On the one hand one reads a lot of fretting about U values on windows and yet on the other hand some of the very same respondents advocating lower u values in one thread will, in other threads, advocate not worrying about the windows and advise focusing on insulation instead because the payback on windows in terms of heat loss and savings can be longer than their lifespan. Confuses the hell out of me? In light of that, I'm not sure worrying about 1.1 vs 1.3 or basing window style decisions based on that is the right way to go.

    Yep, very confusing and you have to remember everyone you talk to is trying to sell something!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    Calibos wrote: »
    In light of that, I'm not sure worrying about 1.1 vs 1.3 or basing window style decisions based on that is the right way to go.

    Yeah to be honest the two tone thing is the big issue for me. I have my heart set on golden oak soffit & fascia & golden oak windows at the front (I love that look although one or two people have said to me it may date) but I want a neutral colour window inside, if I have golden oak inside everything (internal doors, window boards, flooring, architrave, skirting) has to match with it so I'd prefer cream or white windows inside


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    ml100 wrote: »
    Yep, very confusing and you have to remember everyone you talk to is trying to sell something!


    Yes that makes sense why the window suppliers haven't been highlighting to me that sash have lower U value.....they want to sell the sash ones of course as they cost a lot more


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