What Willow species for wood?

taxusbaccata

Hi all,

I'm trying to find out what willow species I should grow for log firewood.
I'm trying to keep to native species if possible.
I see that goat and grey grow to 10m but I seem to see them on roadsides as bushes more than thick trunks.
I see that White willow grows upto 32m and has European origins (not sure what parts though)

Thanks for your help.

Capercaillie

Don't know much about it, but would would coppicing willow be a better crop?

my3cents

I've a native growing by a stream and in the hedge row here, good size trunks can't be sure what it is but your welcome to some propagation material if you are anywhere near Waterford. Also have about 20 spp in very small 5 yo shelter belts which you can take your pick of, the most impressive growth is iirc from a goat willow.

Oldtree

I've started a coppice on damp ground with native goat willow. I use 2 foot rods pushed in. they do branch and need some pruning of side twigs to maintain a single trunk. I'm in the fourth year with this method on willow and they are just starting to take off, and 6th year with poplar on drier ground. I have planted 2 of the poplar in an open setting to see how thay would do hen left alone and they are enormous after a decade (will post photos later)

I got the goat willow out past westport from a tree i felled, which I took big stick cuttings from (too see how large a piece of willow I could get to root) and it is a real grower, I propogate from stool pollards I've made.

taxusbaccata

Oldtree wrote: »

I've started a coppice on damp ground with native goat willow. I use 2 foot rods pushed in. they do branch and need some pruning of side twigs to maintain a single trunk. I'm in the fourth year with this method on willow and they are just starting to take off, and 6th year with poplar on drier ground. I have planted 2 of the poplar in an open setting to see how thay would do hen left alone and they are enormous after a decade (will post photos later)

I got the goat willow out past westport from a tree i felled, which I took big stick cuttings from (too see how large a piece of willow I could get to root) and it is a real grower, I propogate from stool pollards I've made.

You didn't get it from the Greenway by any chance? I saw a willow downed about a month ago. I have some pruned branches in lose heaps of topsoil so hopefully they will take.

I am looking to get a crop of log firewood with time. I went hunting for some Ash over the weekend (with movement ban) and found a lovely crop at an abandoned construction site.
I hear willow roots grow massive but grow rapid, not as good firewood as the champ ash but will an ash crop be wiped with dieback?!

If you were to plant 2 acres of woodland for firewood (logs) from scratch what would you guys/gals plant? Thank for the advice.

Oldtree

no it was in a private garden near mulranny, many years ago.

Hope you are not moving the ash plants?

I am planting up a few acres myself over time using the unrooted willow rods I mentioned above, but the ground is very damp even in the summer so it remains to be seen how successful it will be. (will the trees stay upright or not?) rooted cuttings seem to fall over on this site, thats why I went for the thicker rods pushed in a foot or so.

my3cents

Ash is just so much bullsh!t. Yes it burns well when green but thats the problem, because thats how far to much of it is burnt and green ash will do as much or more to tar up a chimney than any other green wood. Dried correctly it burns almost too well and is best in a stove, without some air control it can burn too fast. I'd be as happy burning beech or oak as anything but laurel and holly are also very good.

Willow will grow from any bit you push in the ground that is still alive and the right way up. Don't try and root the willow first you are just making work for yourself. Just push or hammer (according to size) the sets into the ground where you want them to grow. Poplar will grow almost as easily.

If you are starting on a site you could perhaps get willow in at very close spacings (30cm) as a shelter bed for future planting and to increase the number of sets you have to plant up the rest of the site.

Larch is a favourite of mine on poor soil it transplants well when dormant the needle drop helps improve the soil and you can under plant it with another species for taking as a later crop.

Some idea of soil conditions aspect and location might help with suggestions?

taxusbaccata

Hi my3cents.

West of Ireland. Soil is heavy clay on surface, not very deep in parts )~1.5m then harder glacial till. A few ash, hawthorn, scots pine and birch growing on site no problem. Drains okay with a slope, low parts pool water but I have a basic open drain which is working nicely this winter.

Yes I am sure beech and oak would make wonderful firewood but growing them is the issue. I will be purchasing wood in for the stove initially but aim to generate my own wood over 10 years.
I have many trays of ash seeds in matrix trays but they will take some time to arise.

I've never heard of Larch for firewood - but I'm trying to keep the site as native as practically possible.

Thanks again.

my3cents

If birch will grow then grow birch. Birch is also an excellent nurse tree. You plant it along with your crop species and it helps protect them and is harvested long before the main crop. If you can burn a small area you might find you get birch seedlings appearing. On the heath land I know in the UK Birch and Scots Pine would be primary colonisers that appear very quickly after a heath land fire. You could just primarily grow birch.

If you want to stay with native species there's some info in this guide

The birch and scots are really telling you a lot about the land read up on them particularly in their role as primary colonisers.

I think I'd still get some willow sets in the wet areas and along the side of the ditch because at the end of the day anything that gives you a bit of height will also provide a bit of shelter. You might not notice it but any tree's you plant will.

btw just heard about this book on the radio it might interest you http://www.amazon.co.uk/Norwegian-Wood-Chopping-Stacking-Scandinavian/

Edit> A lot of lists online are american but here are a couple from the UK that give an idea of the heat you can expect from a particular spp, you'll see that birch is on a par with ash...
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/best-wood-for-heating/
http://www.flamingfires.co.uk/which-wood-burns-best.htm

Oldtree

taxusbaccata wrote: »

I have some pruned branches in lose heaps of topsoil so hopefully they will take.

Did your cuttings take? The rods I 'planted' this year seem to all be coming along nicely.

taxusbaccata

Oldtree wrote: »

Did your cuttings take? The rods I 'planted' this year seem to all be coming along nicely.

Hi Oldtree - they certainly did. Keeping them good and moist seems to be the trick. I'll be taking lots more cuttings this autumn.

The answer to my original question is White Willow. They seem to be the more tree like large sub species perfect for West of Ireland land.

Thanks for the tips and advice

Lano Lynn

aspen is good too and if you plant one it will send suckers up all over the place
a native tree not included in the teagasc lists:mad:

taxusbaccata

Lano Lynn wrote: »

aspen is good too and if you plant one it will send suckers up all over the place
a native tree not included in the teagasc lists:mad:

Isn't there another name for Aspen - I think it may be poplar - which are exactly as you describe - you see rows/lines of these giants driving across the country - never in 2D groups - rows for blocking out something!

Lano Lynn

aspen is populus tremula the tall poplar usually planted is populus nigra 'italica' lombardy poplar

Oldtree

They are appropriately named as trembling poplar or quaking aspen, as even in a light wind the leaves tremble and its a lovely sound.

I have a line of aspen planted about 75 years ago according to a 84 year old neighbour who remembers them when he was a boy. For the last 5 years or so the root suckers have been allowed to grow out in a field. I hope for a field of coppice from them at some stage.

For some reason a Caterpillar has taken a liking to the suckers and not the mature trees, stripping the leaves each year and stunting their growth somewhat, never mind the wild goats debarking the suckers in the winter. I've seen the same caterpillar munching hazel and birch.