Campervan for €6k

Barr

Hi All



I’ll start off by saying I am new to the world of campervans and know next to nothing about them.


We normally go on a package holiday every year and thought we would try something different next year . So my OH has suggested we buy a camper and holiday in Ireland.


My criteria is to look or something that could accommodate 2 adults an 2 kids in comfort and be reliable to keep.

Is there any particular make / model I should look for in my price range ?

I want to keep the budget low , as I want to give it a go to see if we like the whole camping thing.

I was hoping to find something less than €6k.

Any advice ye wish to impart to a novice, starting out campervan shopping would be appreciated.



Thanks
Barr

crabbypaddy

€6k is a small budget, you're very unlikely to get a factory built camper in any kind of good condition for that money.

Don't be tempted to buy an ancient van as parts are getting very scarce now for some older models. Remember that most 25 year old campers will have been standing there gathering rust for 23 and half of those years.

There are lots of money pits out there 'a bit of damp' can effectively make a camper uneconomical to repair. 'A bit of rust' can lead to expensive chassis welding, panel beating and painting. 'A small crunch in second' can have you off the road for months while you try to source syncros for a gearbox that was only produced for 18 months 25 years ago.

Really with that budget you're looking at a converted van. With 4 people to be comfortable you want at least lwb high roof if not xlwb. The ducato/boxer/relay is nice and wide in the back you can get a 6ft bed accross the back with swivel seats in the front it can be spacious enough. If you really want a lot of space the xlwb iveco daily and sprinter are collossal.

Comfort is relative if you're not accustomed to camping I would certainly advise you to at least rent a similar sized van for a weekend before sticking your money down. Both my wife and I have had campers all our lives and a small van I would have considered tolerable 10 years ago would seem like a tomb now.

Also into your budget factor in annual tax, insurance, maintenance, DOE test where will it be stored. Standing around is very bad for a vehicle so something that was tested last year could have seized brake calipers, handbrake cables, corroded brake pipes, rusty sills and crossmembers you have to factor in some unexpected bills into your budget and get someone who knows what they're at to vet the vehicle for you.

This would be my current's successor. It's about as small as I'd be willing to go with a family.



Just a smidgeon over budget.

To be honest any conversion you find for that figure is probably going to be a pigs ear. In which case I'd save myself the bother of ripping out a poor conversion and just start with an panel van.

If I had to stay on budget I'd go for this (310D would be better, 20 extra horses)
While not disagreeing with Paddy this is a chain driven bulletproof engine, wholly mechanical with running gear built like a tank. Ubiquitous parts. Little underpowered. Hi twenties to the gallon.

Bigus

I'd hire one out if I were you first, it'll answer an awful lot of questions and educate you quickly.

crabbypaddy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

If I had to stay on budget I'd go for this (310D would be better, 20 extra horses)
While not disagreeing with Paddy this is a chain driven bulletproof engine, wholly mechanical with running gear built like a tank. Ubiquitous parts. Little underpowered. Hi twenties to the gallon.

Thats nice actually, I would make an exception to the age rule for merc as they are very good for parts right back to the 50s if somewhat expensive and there are still millions of those on the road right across europe and russia so used parts are easy to come by.

My main quibble would be engine / road noise and make sure it has a 5 speed box and power steering

Barr

Thanks guys , some good points raised. The merc seems nice , though looks huge for a first timer :pac:

Would a petrol campervan be a cheaper alternative.

Have ye come across a Talbot Elddis ?

This one is for sale in Cork

Would it be worth checking out at the price.

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/1992-talbot-elddis-camper-van/10538140?offset=1

crabbypaddy

crabbypaddy wrote: »

My main quibble would be engine / road noise and make sure it has a 5 speed box and power steering

+1 power steering. Even the 5 speed box is really just low range + four :rolleyes:


The T series parts are reasonable for the "consumables" the oddball stuff that never goes can be mad money.

So far I've replaced the brake rotors, pads, pad wear sensors, shoes, brake cylinders, rear springs, rear shocks, radiator, automatic hand brake adjuster, heating core hose, 4 mirrors, recond'd head, recond'd gearbox, alternator x 4, battery x 2, battery loom, glow plugs x 4, exhaust & muffler, oil cooler, blower fan, viscous pulley, fan belt damper, all filters, prop carrier bearing, water pump pulley, lighting stalk, speedo cable, passenger seat, track rod ends, track rod, engine mounts, tyres, spare carrier wheel, 1 wheel rim, 3 hub caps, front brake lines, towbar, fan belt x 3, all filters, rear window, sliding door runner, rear doors, mostly OEM. Rebuilt wheel arches, side sills and rear spring legs. She's practically a new machine. :pac:

Fuel tank is getting a flush one of these days and a new sender unit.

..ahem like I said bulletproof..

crabbypaddy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

So far I've replaced the brake rotors, pads, pad wear sensors, shoes, brake cylinders, rear springs, rear shocks, radiator, automatic hand brake adjuster, heating core hose, 4 mirrors, recond'd head, recond'd gearbox, alternator x 4, battery x 2, battery loom, glow plugs x 4, exhaust & muffler, oil cooler, blower fan, viscous pulley, fan belt damper, all filters, prop carrier bearing, water pump pulley, lighting stalk, speedo cable, passenger seat, track rod ends, track rod, engine mounts, tyres, spare carrier wheel, 1 wheel rim, 3 hub caps, front brake lines, towbar, fan belt x 3, all filters, rear window, sliding door runner, rear doors, mostly OEM. Rebuilt wheel arches, side sills and rear spring legs. She's practically a new machine. :pac:

The auld fellas one had the above plus he rebuilt rear diff for noise it would have done another millions miles making a racket though, and doors rusted out on top and were fibreglassed. He was religious with the waxoyl. Not bad for 30 years on the road.

I've a spare rear axle on standby.
Yeah, she's never left me stranded.

Waxoyl is some awful filth, great for the chassis, manky for the mechanic has to work on the blighter. Vactan and stone chip myself.

Bangernomics it'd cost the same to buy new van but much harder fix ECU's with a hammer.

crabbypaddy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Waxoyl is some awful filth, great for the chassis, manky for the mechanic has to work on the blighter.

Always smelled like someone had spilled a gallon of white spirit when the sun came out!

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Bangernomics it'd cost the same to buy new van but much harder fix ECU's with a hammer.

Not to mention fixing body computers, immobilisers, airbag controllers, impact sensors, occupancy sensors, vacuum solenoids, map sensors, maf sensors, crank sensors, cam sensors, knock sensors, temperature sensors, lambda sensors, throttle bodies, pressure sensors, pressure solenoids, egr valves, particulate filters, oil level sensors, abs sensors, abs pumps, swirl valve actuators, emissions canisters, pcv heaters, fuel temperature sensors, fuel pressure sensors, electric window controllers, central locking mechanisms, digital instrument clusters etc. etc.

spaceHopper

Barr wrote: »

Thanks guys , some good points raised. The merc seems nice , though looks huge for a first timer :pac:

Would a petrol campervan be a cheaper alternative.

Have ye come across a Talbot Elddis ?

This one is for sale in Cork

Would it be worth checking out at the price.

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/1992-talbot-elddis-camper-van/10538140?offset=1

Are there belts in the back for the kids?

crabbypaddy

Barr wrote: »

Thanks guys , some good points raised. The merc seems nice , though looks huge for a first timer :pac:

Would a petrol campervan be a cheaper alternative.

Have ye come across a Talbot Elddis ?

This one is for sale in Cork

Would it be worth checking out at the price.

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/1992-talbot-elddis-camper-van/10538140?offset=1

If you don't mind driving slowly and very slowly on hill it would be fine. The 2 liter petrol is underpowered and not much torque. Driving like your granny you'll get 22mpg, driving normally about 18-20mpg, you'll struggle to maintain speed limit on any kind of incline.

Depending on how many miles you do the fuel economy may be a factor too. That vans done about 5k miles a year the difference in economy between a turbo diesel model would add up to about 3k euro over 5 years.

To put it in prespective my van is more than twice the torque and 1.5 times the power and it barely maintains the 130km on the big motorway hills.

Also a lot of engine, gearbox parts are no longer available for those models and simple things like clutch and speedo cables can be hard to come by too.

Barr

spaceHopper wrote: »

Are there belts in the back for the kids?

Yip , I assume most campervans would have them ?

crabbypaddy

Barr wrote: »

Yip , I assume most campervans would have them ?

They weren't required a lot don't have them and a lot of them are just chipboard seats with lapbelts and no headrests.

Barr

crabbypaddy wrote: »

They weren't required a lot don't have them and a lot of them are just chipboard seats with lapbelts and no headrests.

Is passenger seat-belts a legal requirement in campervans ?

crabbypaddy

Barr wrote: »

Is passenger seat-belts a legal requirement in campervans ?

Optional for rear passengers most factory campers in your price range will have none or lapbelts / retrofitted lapbelts there was no requirement for tested seating either so it cowboy territory. the rule is that 'where fitted they must be used'

Barr

If the campervan comes with a DOE can I assume it wont need chassis welding. Rust would be a worry for me.

Last thing I want to end up with is a rust bucket.

Nope.
Doe just means the inspector didn't see rust.

Tap it out.

Barr

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Nope.
Doe just means the inspector didn't see rust.

Tap it out.

Is there mechanics out there that can look them over pre purchase. Something like the AA for cars.

What does "tap it out" mean ?

_Brian

How about a Caravan ?

While a caravan isn't maintenance free it won't cost near what a motorhome does in running costs. Most decent sized family saloons easily pull a caravan.

Something like this for €5k leave you a grand in your hand to buy bits 'N pieces to kit it out well...

My only advice is steer clear of caravan sales places in Kildare, the vans were poor quality, and had hard lives, I feared most were ex traveller vans from the UK rather than leisure vans.

Barr

Barr wrote: »

What does "tap it out" mean ?

It means get a screwdriver or a blunt chisel and tap every inch of the undercarraige. If the screwdriver punctures the frame then you found rust. If it doesn't make a metallic sound then you may have found a bodgey repair.

Barr

A caravan may be the way to go , it seems campervans could be a real money pit reading through this.


Our car is a 1.6 petrol so probably not ideal for towing.

Nothing a rip saw and welder can't fix.

_Brian

Barr wrote: »

A caravan may be the way to go , it seems campervans could be a real money pit reading through this.


Our car is a 1.6 petrol so probably not ideal for towing.

Check it out here..
You can look online at vans that you like the look of and then match it up with your car.. you'll know quickly how suitable it is..

Barr

Thanks Brian , looks a useful site

I just tried our car with the caravan you linked on donedeal. It says the towing limit is exceeded by 170 kg.

Back to the drawing board for now.

landmarkjohn

I run a camper on the Fiat Ducato chassis (same as that Talbot) and the 2.0 petrol engine. IMO it is good bet, cost less to maintain than the diesel of the same vintage. The 2.0 petrol was originally designed for rallying apparently and has a duplex (double thickness) timing chain. Agreed won't do better than 22 MPG but when you consider the amount of mileage the average camper around Ireland getting 26-28 from the same vintage of a diesel it isn't going to make much difference. Different story if you are going to Europe for a couple of months.

And when you get it going it flies along, gets a bit wheezy going uphill but sure don't we all.... just get tucked in behind a big truck and he'll drag you up :-)

_Brian

landmarkjohn wrote: »

I run a camper on the Fiat Ducato chassis (same as that Talbot) and the 2.0 petrol engine. IMO it is good bet, cost less to maintain than the diesel of the same vintage. The 2.0 petrol was originally designed for rallying apparently and has a duplex (double thickness) timing chain. Agreed won't do better than 22 MPG but when you consider the amount of mileage the average camper around Ireland getting 26-28 from the same vintage of a diesel it isn't going to make much difference. Different story if you are going to Europe for a couple of months.

And when you get it going it flies along, gets a bit wheezy going uphill but sure don't we all.... just get tucked in behind a big truck and he'll drag you up :-)

In general your point in MPG is bang on. Even for moderate milage the difference in 5mpg is small money.

crabbypaddy

_Brian wrote: »

In general your point in MPG is bang on. Even for moderate milage the difference in 5mpg is small money.

I disagree, drive the petrol hard and you'll have 18mpg if your lucky, drive the diesel the same you'll still have 25mpg.

We do about 7500 miles a year the difference would add up to 600-900 per year based on current/previous years fuel prices. Thats enough savings to cover annual insurance, tax, maintenance and DOE.

Irishgoatman

I've been trying to resist the urge to add my thoughts to this thread but just can't resist any longer.

A lot of these posts seem designed to put anyone off buying a camper.
The OP stated that he wants a camper for himself and family to holiday here in Ireland. He is not talking about doing thousands of miles/kilometers per year so diff in cost between petrol and diesel is unimportant, he is going to have two children on board so is unlikely to worry about not being able to do 130kph on a motorway, as was mentioned in an earlier post, after all the speed limit is 120, and would you want to drive at high speeds when you have two children on board? I wouldn't.

The only thing he might find annoying when driving slowly is two children yelling "are we there yet, are we there yet".:)

As I've said before on boards, I have a 1986 camper that is quite (understatement) slow but I treat every trip as a holiday and when I'm on holiday I never rush! If I want to get somewhere in a hurry I take the car.

I would have thought we want to encourage new motorhomers not put them off.

crabbypaddy

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I would have thought we want to encourage new motorhomers not put them off.

You wouldn't encourage someone to buy a yacht if they've never been sailing or looked at a boat. The op doesn't seem to have experience or research under their belt. I think the appropriate advice has been given ..try before you buy, err on the side of caution, don't buy something that doesnt suit, dont buy an old barge.

Irishgoatman

crabbypaddy wrote: »

You wouldn't encourage someone to buy a yacht if they've never been sailing or looked at a boat. The op doesn't seem to have experience or research under their belt. I think the appropriate advice has been given ..try before you buy, err on the side of caution, don't buy something that doesnt suit, dont buy an old barge.

True, but with all the negative advice about how dodgy it is to buy second hand he is now thinking of a caravan!.

Barr

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've been trying to resist the urge to add my thoughts to this thread but just can't resist any longer.

A lot of these posts seem designed to put anyone off buying a camper.
The OP stated that he wants a camper for himself and family to holiday here in Ireland. He is not talking about doing thousands of miles/kilometers per year so diff in cost between petrol and diesel is unimportant, he is going to have two children on board so is unlikely to worry about not being able to do 130kph on a motorway, as was mentioned in an earlier post, after all the speed limit is 120, and would you want to drive at high speeds when you have two children on board? I wouldn't.

The only thing he might find annoying when driving slowly is two children yelling "are we there yet, are we there yet".:)

As I've said before on boards, I have a 1986 camper that is quite (understatement) slow but I treat every trip as a holiday and when I'm on holiday I never rush! If I want to get somewhere in a hurry I take the car.

I would have thought we want to encourage new motorhomers not put them off.

You are spot on with your post there and what I am looking for in a camper.

My main concern is that I spend €6k and end up with something that costs a shed load in repairs and maintenance.

The work done to Sir Liamalot's camper would be a prime example of what I would be trying to avoid.

Suppose what I was hoping for, was to find the Honda civic or Corolla of the camper world for bangernomic s money.

The Japanese need to get into the camper market :pac::pac:

Irishgoatman

Barr wrote: »

You are spot on with your post there and what I am looking for in a camper.

My main concern is that I spend €6k and end up with something that costs a shed load in repairs and maintenance.

The work done to Sir Liamalot's camper would be a prime example of what I would be trying to avoid.

Suppose what I was hoping for, was to find the Honda civic or Corolla of the camper world for bangernomic s money.

The Japanese need to get into the camper market :pac::pac:

Don't give up just yet. The right one with your name on it is out there somewhere.

Plenty of time before good campervan weather comes round again.:rolleyes:

shagman

Mazda Bongo Frendee (yes that's actaually it's name) and a big awning / sunroom?

Barr

Those bongos are cool looking yokes. They seem to be able to sleep 4 as well

Are they all Jap Imports or would they ever have been sold in Ireland ?

crabbypaddy

Barr wrote: »

Those bongos are cool looking yokes. They seem to be able to sleep 4 as well

Are they all Jap Imports or would they ever have been sold in Ireland ?

All jap imports, lots are 4wd and or automatic.

They are a lovely day van but as a camper they're tiny.

To put the size in perspective a ford galaxy is about 2 inches longer and 4 inches wider, the bongo was built narrow to avoid japanese limo taxes.

karmaan

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/camper-toyota/10500179
Might be worth looking at

Alkers

That will be difficult to insure without an elevating rood?

spaceHopper

Don't be put of but you need to but in more research first, to figure out what you want and how much to spend.

I think 6K is a bit small, for that price you are looking at a very old early 90's coach build camper or an ex commercial van converted. You won't get a 100% trouble free van but under 1000 a year in maintenance is realistic, with a bout 650 fixed cost for insurance, doe and road tax.

As for Japanese vans, mine is from Japan I imported it, have a look in the UK for Toyota hiace's http://www.algysautos.com/campervans.html mine is a 1991 Yokohama motor sales wizard conversion. I get about 480K to 500K out of a 55 ltr tank.

landmarkjohn

spaceHopper wrote: »

Don't be put of but you need to but in more research first, to figure out what you want and how much to spend.

I think 6K is a bit small, for that price you are looking at a very old early 90's coach build camper or an ex commercial van converted. You won't get a 100% trouble free van but under 1000 a year in maintenance is realistic, with a bout 650 fixed cost for insurance, doe and road tax.

As for Japanese vans, mine is from Japan I imported it, have a look in the UK for Toyota hiace's http://www.algysautos.com/campervans.html mine is a 1991 Yokohama motor sales wizard conversion. I get about 480K to 500K out of a 55 ltr tank.

Good advice. Personally I would prefer a coach built over a conversion, only because.... well, it's coach built!

To give the OP real world info, my camper is a 1989 Hobby AK620 2.0 petrol (on the standard Ducato chassis of the era). Passed the DOE in July, I asked tester if there were any weak spots and he pointed to some rust on the chassis and said to rub it down and paint it. I have had to seal the roof where the joints are with (correct high quality) silicone.... any camper of this age is going to need looking after in this area but don't be put off, strip out the old silicone, rub down, clean and reseal... it can be done!

I often get people knocking enquiring about mine and I genuinely would struggle to let it go less than €5K.. after all, what am I going to buy.

Barr

What are the Fiat Ducatos like ?

Something like this one

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-ducato/10766227

crabbypaddy

Barr wrote: »

What are the Fiat Ducatos like ?

Something like this one

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-ducato/10766227

A case in point about being cautious. Thats 'slight bit of damage' probably has lead to water ingress which can in turn lead to big bills and I wouldn't fancy trying to work in the corner of the overcab to try to repair it either.

Once water gets under the outer skin its trapped and can travel by gravity and capillary action a long way rotting timbers and corroding the skin from the inside out. You'd have to remove all that gaffer tape to inspect the damage and ideally you want to see whats going on behind the panelling in the overcab.

landmarkjohn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato

"Since 1981, more than 2.6 million Fiat Ducatos have been produced.[2] The Ducato is the most common motorhome base used in Europe; with around two thirds of motorhomes using the Ducato base"

They are well proven. Main problems I have had are electrical contacts corroding and watch out for something parked up for months with handbrake on causing binding (better to just leave it in gear) check wheel temperatures after test drive.

I wouldn't go near one with structural damage, it's hard enough keeping the old ones dry without damage. Reading your OP I would say you're getting close, keep looking, it's end of season now and better to look at a camper on a wet day than in the middle of a dry week. They do come up... if you are a bit adventurous have a look at German ebay.de for a wohnmobile

Barr

Thanks guys , I have learnt a lot from this thread and feel more confident about what to purchase

I am hoping in the next few months I will pick up a good deal before the season starts.