Issue with service from Irish water

Bobking

Hi
I previously enquired into the service you provide.

The orthophosphates you are adding or intend to add in Limerick may have an impact on health.
This is why I am asking you not add them.
I and other vulnerable customers may get sick as a result of saving some money.

It is a money-saving meaure which will endanger my health in an effort to buy some extra time to replace lead pipes.

This is not a sufficient service and I do not want to pay for this economic decision.

Please provide your research into the safe use of orthophosphates.
Please provide the impact on human health study.

Your priority should be to not delay the upgrading of pipes.
Please leave off this dangerous half measure.

whippet

Bobking wrote: »

Hi
I previously enquired into the service you provide.

The orthophosphates you are adding or intend to add in Limerick may have an impact on health.
This is why I am asking you not add them.
I and other vulnerable customers may get sick as a result of saving some money.

It is a money-saving meaure which will endanger my health in an effort to buy some extra time to replace lead pipes.

This is not a sufficient service and I do not want to pay for this economic decision.  

Please provide your research into the safe use of orthophosphates.
Please provide the impact on human health study.  

Your priority should be to not delay the upgrading of pipes.
Please leave off this dangerous half measure.

have a read of this study which shows it isn't an issue

http://www.winnipeg.ca/waterandwaste/water/leadOrthophosphate.stm

have you a particular health issue which is specific to Orthophosphates? 

Bobking

whippet wrote: »

have a read of this study which shows it isn't an issue

http://www.winnipeg.ca/waterandwaste/water/leadOrthophosphate.stm

have you a particular health issue which is specific to Orthophosphates?

Thanks for this link to a webpage.
It is not a study but is the results of samples from the City of Winnipeg that demonstrate my concerns.
The two tables you have provided show 25% and 60% fluctuations in the amount of othophosphates added, yet no mention is made of this. The samples are flushed before measurement. Even if this was investigative research it would apply to Winnipeg Canada.

I am addressing Irish Water and looking for the scientific medical research they have consulted and which allow them to make claims of its safety for this pilot program in Limerick.
This information must be right at hand for someone because this is a recent decision.
Please let Irish Water answer.

The results of samples show that a lead content (that is within health and safety limits) in water can be achieved by adding different amounts of orthophosphates for 2 to 5 years.
This means that lead pipes that are corroding have been slowed to the point that the company will be able to justify leaving them in use untill further degradation.

If your home is too hot in winter because the heating is on do you
a) turn down the heat
b) open the window periodically and certain amounts untill you have reached the desired temperature

If you open the window, you can maintain the desired temperature without ever touching the thermostat.

[The City relies on the province to approve this scheme and the Water Stewardship for the province actually expressed concern, this is also conveniently left out of this webpage so Ive included it here] Dwight Williamson, assistant deputy minister of ecological services for Manitoba Water Stewardship, said the Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board first expressed concern over the city's practice of adding phosphorus to the water supply in 2006. Williamson said it's good that the city is reviewing alternatives since there are other options that can lower lead levels in water without adding phosphorus, including forms of sodium and calcium."It's important to keep the lead out of the drinking water, but it's generally harmful to the environment to add phosphorus to the system," he said.

Guess what, the search for an alternative is off.

whippet

this is a bit of a report from what you mention in winnipeg

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/city-to-tweak-lead-battle-116459343.html

It mentions nothing about health concerns and only a minor / cosmetic issue around algae formation in the lake.  I'd be far more worried about the amount of phosphates coming in from the farm lands near our waterways than a slight bit of lead reducing measures. 

I think you are worrying about nothing and / or looking for a reason to get outraged. 

Have you any evidence of health risks from peer reviewed studies or are you basing your fear upon a very loose vague comment about being concerned?

Irish Water: Niall

Hi Bobking,

Thank you for contacting us.

Bobking wrote: »

Hi
I previously enquired into the service you provide.

The orthophosphates you are adding or intend to add in Limerick may have an impact on health.
This is why I am asking you not add them.
I and other vulnerable customers may get sick as a result of saving some money.

It is a money-saving meaure which will endanger my health in an effort to buy some extra time to replace lead pipes.

This is not a sufficient service and I do not want to pay for this economic decision.

Please provide your research into the safe use of orthophosphates.
Please provide the impact on human health study.

Your priority should be to not delay the upgrading of pipes.
Please leave off this dangerous half measure.

I understand your concern. Please see here for more information regarding orthophosphates in Limerick.

Please feel free to contact us with any other queries you may have.

Kind regards,
Niall

Bobking

Irish Water: Niall wrote: »

I understand your concern. Please see here for more information regarding orthophosphates in Limerick.

Please feel free to contact us with any other queries you may have.

Kind regards,
Niall

Hi Niall,

Thanks for that link, however it is merely anecdotal evidence that shows the practice is carried on in other places. That neither speaks to its merit nor demerit.

"The average person takes in between 1,000 and 2,000 milligrammes of Phosphorus daily, and the amount which would relate to water treated with orthophosphate would be 3 milligrammes."

The press release also says that people consume 1000 to 2000mg of phosphorus per day.
The recommended daily amount of phosphorus is 550mg per day for an adult to a max of 775mg for a teenage male.
https://www.fsai.ie/assets/0/86/204/fb3f2891-2896-4bf9-903f-938f3c2ad01f.pdf


It also mentions here hat the amount related to water would be 3 mg.
This is completely misleading as the amount is actually 2-3mg per liter.
This press release either assumes a person consumes 1 liter of water per day or is deliberately misleading.

Have you any scientific research about the changes adding orthophosphates makes?
What happens when cooking food in boiled water with 3mg/l orthophosphate added?

Thanks

whippet

Bobking wrote: »

Irish Water: Niall wrote: »

I understand your concern. Please see here for more information regarding orthophosphates in Limerick.

Please feel free to contact us with any other queries you may have.

Kind regards,
Niall

Hi Niall,

Thanks for that link, however it is merely anecdotal evidence that shows the practice is carried on in other places. That neither speaks to its merit nor demerit.

"The average person takes in between 1,000 and 2,000 milligrammes of Phosphorus daily, and the amount which would relate to water treated with orthophosphate would be 3 milligrammes."

The press release also says that people consume 1000 to 2000mg of phosphorus per day.
The recommended daily amount of phosphorus is 550mg per day for an adult to a max of 775mg for a teenage male.
https://www.fsai.ie/assets/0/86/204/fb3f2891-2896-4bf9-903f-938f3c2ad01f.pdf


It also mentions here hat the amount related to water would be 3 mg.
This is completely misleading as the amount is actually 2-3mg per liter.
This press release either assumes a person consumes 1 liter of water per day or is deliberately misleading.

Have you any scientific research about the changes adding orthophosphates makes?
What happens when cooking food in boiled water with 3mg/l orthophosphate added?

Thanks

how much water do you intend to consume?

You are nit picking and trying to find something to be outraged about when there isn't something to be concerned about. 

there is plenty of research online showing that there isn't anything to be worried about. 

Can you link to a specific concern that you have about this? If you show exactly what you are concerned about maybe your concerns can be addressed

TheChizler

Bobking wrote: »

This is completely misleading as the amount is actually 2-3mg per liter.
This press release either assumes a person consumes 1 liter of water per day or is deliberately misleading.

That doesn't sound too far off?

Bobking

I am concerned that companies do not feel the need to research the health implications of their actions.

I am concerned that I already consume too much phosphates according to Irish water (yet to be verified)

I am concerned that people feel the need to attack anyone who questions the information presented.

Questions are a means for me to learn, not get outraged.

Can you please provide a source for that press release Niall. Where did 1000-2000mg per day and 3mg come from? How can you know how much phosphates need to be added? Maybe an estimate based on lead content?

whippet

Bobking wrote: »

I am concerned that companies do not feel the need to research the health implications of their actions.

I am concerned that I already consume too much phosphates according to Irish water (yet to be verified)

I am concerned that people feel the need to attack anyone who questions the information presented.

Questions are a means for me to learn, not get outraged.

Can you please provide a source for that press release Niall. Where did 1000-2000mg per day and 3mg come from? How can you know how much phosphates need to be added? Maybe an estimate based on lead content?

have a quick read of this .. should allay any fears you have

http://www.healthline.com/health/phosphorus-in-diet#Overview1

Are you accusing Irish Water of not researching this? 

Are you concerned that the 3mg in a litre of water would bring you over the total of 500-700mg per day? 

Bobking

Whippet,  you're an absolute moron with no regard for the perspective of others. 

I know what phosphorous is. Irish water says you take in 1000-2000mg. 
Is that over 700mg? 
You should check this out. It will help you understand logic. 
http://agreatsupervisor.com/articles/reynoldsdecision.htm

What is your need to reply? 

I'm addressing Irish water. 


Are you accusing me of accusing Irish water of not researching it?

I just asked for the research. From Irish water. 
No reply yet. 

TheChizler

The top of this forum says something along the lines of "customer service provided by Irish Water representatives and boards.ie members"; anyone has the right to participate.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Bobking wrote: »

Whippet,  you're an absolute moron with no regard for the perspective of others. 

I know what phosphorous is. Irish water says you take in 1000-2000mg. 
Is that over 700mg? 
You should check this out. It will help you understand logic. 
http://agreatsupervisor.com/articles/reynoldsdecision.htm

What is your need to reply? 

I'm addressing Irish water. 


Are you accusing me of accusing Irish water of not researching it?

I just asked for the research. From Irish water. 
No reply yet. 

Bobking infracted for personal abuse. Addressing any user in this way is unacceptable.

Bobking

Hi again Irish water.

Any chance you found the health impact study related to adding orthophosphates to water in Limerick?

Or any scientific information related to the proposal please?