I dont understand how recruitment agents work

intheclouds

I have been jobseeking for the past few weeks (in a full time job, just want to move on) and I have applied to a number of different roles but I get the impression when recruitment agents phone me that in some cases there is no job behind the particular advertisement at all and it is just a recruitment agency collecting CVs.

For example I applied for a specific role and when the agent phoned me I asked for more detail on the role and she said "Well Id like to have a chat with you first and then I will know better what roles to place you for", so we chatted, and during the conversation she asked me if I had any family living with me. When I asked how that was relevant to the job application I had made she said that she was wondering if my spouse was looking for a job also?!? Anyway, I tried to bring her back on track and again asked for more information about the specific role I had applied for but she just wandered off talking about something else then ended the call.

That is the most obvious case but I have had a number of calls along those lines where its clear to me that there is no job.

I have also had one agent who went to the trouble of phoning my reference but then said the company she offered my CV to werent interested. Why would you phone someones reference unless you were going to offer them a job?

Im confused about it all. Ive only ever gotten jobs from companies advertising directly so Ive not experienced recruitment agents directly like this before. They werent really a thing when I started my career 20+ years ago.

So my question is this - do they really get you jobs? Are most of the advertised jobs not real?

zoobizoo

That last two positions I got, one was direct and the other was through an agency.

Agencies: Saw a job, phoned them, spoke about direct experience and my ability to start immediately. They were back onto me that day and had an interview set up for the day after.

When they see you as a perfect fit for a job they'll be chasing you.

I always call them first to try to speak with someone in order to sell myself.

I was already working in the above job when they rang my references.

seamus

What area are you jobseeking in?

Certainly the approach seems to differ as you get more senior. When I first used agencies more or less straight out of college, it was very much just a phone call and a request to send a CV through. I got one job without ever actually meeting the recruitment agent.

This time around applying as a far more senior candidate, I had a number of recruiters want a face-to-face meeting with them first, most of them buying me coffee, one even went as far as lunch.

I think as you get towards the more senior roles, companies are less likely to accept the blunderbuss approach to submitting candidates. It will end up getting a recruitment agent blacklisted. Certainly when I was on the other side of the interview table I would ignore some recruiters more than others when they consistently sent me crap candiates.
As a result, the agent is more eager to take an hour to meet a candidate and see how they come across - do they talk confidently about what they're doing or do they seem to be spoofing? Is their manner off? Are they a complete weirdo? And so forth.

In general I would never apply directly for a role that an agent is advertising. I'd only apply directly to a company for a job. Let the agents chase you if they think you're a good fit for a job.

intheclouds

seamus wrote: »

In general I would never apply directly for a role that an agent is advertising. I'd only apply directly to a company for a job. Let the agents chase you if they think you're a good fit for a job.

How do you know the company though - it doesnt say it in the recruiter ad? Or do you only apply directly to companies? Ive only had 3 jobs in 20+ years so I dont really have much experience in the area of jobseeking. I think Ive only ever had 4 interviews in my whole life and I was offered the job for 3 of those interviews!

Its software development, Ive experience in a number of different areas. Ive been offered some good interviews in bad locations that I turned down but Im just taken aback at the number of calls that are just agents "fishing" with nothing to offer me.

seamus

Software development, then the world is your oyster my friend.

If you're not on LinkedIn, you should be. There are guides online on what a good LinkedIn profile should look like. At the moment simply having a Linkedin profile with software dev on it will have recruiters bugging you day and night.

Yeah, recruiter ads don't say what company it is, so just ignore recruiter ads. When you're searching on job sites you can usually filter the recruiter ads out and focus on the roles advertised directly by the companies.

When a recruiters calls you for a fishing expedition, I would generally answer the few questions that they have and then ask them to send me through the job spec. If they haven't told you over the phone what company it is and refuse to send through a spec, then the job probably doesn't exist.

intheclouds

seamus wrote: »

If you're not on LinkedIn, you should be. There are guides online on what a good LinkedIn profile should look like. At the moment simply having a Linkedin profile with software dev on it will have recruiters bugging you day and night.

I am and they do but it is never anything relevant to what I actually do.

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, recruiter ads don't say what company it is, so just ignore recruiter ads. When you're searching on job sites you can usually filter the recruiter ads out and focus on the roles advertised directly by the companies.

Ah ok, that certainly narrows the pool.

seamus wrote: »

When a recruiters calls you for a fishing expedition, I would generally answer the few questions that they have and then ask them to send me through the job spec. If they haven't told you over the phone what company it is and refuse to send through a spec, then the job probably doesn't exist.

Yes, I thought it best to play ball and be polite but I get the impression half of them havent even read my CV! Thats what I thought was happening, because where there really have been roles the people on the phone have literally opened the conversation with "Right - its with Company A on Street Name".

Its very frustrating!

Are there better websites than others? I have mostly been looking on irishjobs.ie and indeed.ie but there is a lot of duplication.

JustShon

intheclouds wrote: »

I get the impression half of them havent even read my CV!

A lot of them are contacting you because you had one little word or piece of experience on your LinkedIn profile so they just fire a job spec at you and move on.

I always get contacted about jobs that are in my area but way too senior for me.

Recruitment agents and agencies vary significantly. Some of them are excellent, many of them are ticking boxes to hit targets or make it look like they did lots of work. "I contacted 500 candidates about this position and just can't fill it boss, sorry!"

intheclouds

JustShon wrote: »

A lot of them are contacting you because you had one little word or piece of experience on your LinkedIn profile so they just fire a job spec at you and move on.

^^ This!!

Constantly getting contacted about DBA work - Im not a DBA, just because you saw the word Oracle on my CV!

JustShon

Also it happens a lot that the recruiter doesn't really know what the job is about, especially in IT roles.

I used to work for a job board and was constantly explaining that no, this guy with a tonne of back-end development experience is not going to be a great pick for your front-end developer position. To the average recruiter, programmers is programmers and that's that.

If you want to use recruitment agencies I'd suggest finding some specialist agencies. The bigger, generalised agencies aren't going to have half a notion what most of the words on your profile / CV mean.

intheclouds

JustShon wrote: »

If you want to use recruitment agencies I'd suggest finding some specialist agencies.

I have mostly been getting calls from supposedly specialised IT agencies. Who knows though!!

I guess the old job pages in Fridays Irish Times are a thing of the past (at least in those days you got proper call backs!)

Wizard!

Do not answer to every recruiter out there. Search for some reliable companies that actually recruit people. A large company will hire more than one recruiters for the job, so not everyone gets the money. When a recruiter contacts you, search his LinkedIn profile and read his references. If he is good, he will have plenty of them.

Also, as said before, register with LinkedIn and read guides on how to make your profile look like. Recruiters are not bad, however they are employees like you and me, and not every employee is good at his job.

I got my current job via a recruiter. Before that I had more than 10 agents contacted me, most of them interviewed me for 30-40 minutes, send my application to plenty of jobs, and then silence. Four of them arranged interviews and I had two offers, of which of course I picked one.

JustShon

The problem is that you'd need IT experience to effectively recruit for IT positions, and if you're qualified in an IT discipline surely you'll be seeking work in that, not recruitment.

Don't be afraid to grill the hell out of recruiters. The decent ones won't be phased by it, the rubbish ones will soon show themselves to be rubbish under a little pressure.

BGozIE

I feel your pain, I think you are getting the impression they are not reading your CV because you have a guy who knows f all about software development trying to converse with you about it and find out how your skills match up to roles...but it comes out like sh!t because things of a complex nature are not easy to casually understand or converse about for a few minutes.

In saying that, I do feel your pain with the general fishing for information...sometimes I think they just need CV's for there databases so they have candidates details for any future roles.

intheclouds

BGozIE wrote: »

In saying that, I do feel your pain with the general fishing for information...sometimes I think they just need CV's for there databases so they have candidates details for any future roles.

Yes, I agree.

I actually came across a job spec that I myself had written for a role last year being used by a recruitment agency - I still had it on file and it was word for word lifted - Ive no idea where they lifted it from but I knew immediately to cross that agency off my list.

I also had one agent who asked me on the phone how little I would work for and even followed it up with an email!! Is she not supposed to be selling ME roles? Not trying to bargain me down to my ultimate lowest??? Surely she gets better commission of a more senior salary??? Bizarre.

So some strange experiences alright. Ive also had a company who had me do online tests, I did extremely well on them (100% on more than half the tests) and havent heard a thing since (that was weeks ago!).

Wizard!

Tests... lol...
I did a test for a Norwegian Power company, back in May 2015. I was one of the best 3, so they told me I have good chances of getting the job. I got an email from them last week, October 2015, that they hired someone else... (I already found what I was looking for since July...)
This was a direct contact though, not through an agent.

intheclouds

Im a bit down about it today.

Having a bad day in my current role and it just highlights to me further that I need to leave but no end in sight yet.

booooring!

Do you have much experience? Its key! Don't know if your just fresh out of college or what but don't be afraid to go for graduate roles if money isn't too big of an issue for you at this moment in time.

BGozIE

intheclouds wrote: »

Im a bit down about it today.

Having a bad day in my current role and it just highlights to me further that I need to leave but no end in sight yet.

Sounds like your in my office...a lot of stressed out developers worrying about go live tomorrow.

How long have you been looking? I wouldnt worry yet, there is a lot of jobs out there for developers with the right skills, you will definetly get another role.

RentDayBlues

Recruitment agencies work for the potential employers, they are the ones who foot the bill. No recruiter is interested in cv collection, they don't get paid for that, they get paid if they fill the vacancy.

I would recommend that if you're going to use an agency, find some good ones in your field, build the relationship, ensure you meet with them if possible. Then they will do the leg work for you of looking at potential positions that might fit your experience.

Wizard!

intheclouds wrote: »

...I started my career 20+ years ago...

booooring! wrote: »

Do you have much experience? ...if your just fresh out of college...

:rolleyes:

suchafunkymonke

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, recruiter ads don't say what company it is, so just ignore recruiter ads. When you're searching on job sites you can usually filter the recruiter ads out and focus on the roles advertised directly by the companies.

^^
This isn't good advice.

Companies such as mine (large IT/Engineering company) use recruiters all of the time for our vacancies. The only place we advertise directly is via linkedin where a job will be posted in a relevant group or by an internal employee.

RentDayBlues wrote: »

Recruitment agencies work for the potential employers, they are the ones who foot the bill. No recruiter is interested in cv collection, they don't get paid for that, they get paid if they fill the vacancy.

^^
This also isn't true. Recruiters harvest CVs relevant to the particular area they are responsible for. They do this so they can go to an employer and say "oh I've got x amount of candidates suitable for that role" and hand over a chunk of CVs. I know this because I've been in the position of both the employer and prospective employee.

Some recruitment consultants are not as good as others and only skim-read CVs looking for keywords which is why you get DBA roles because you have "Oracle" on your CV.

Recruiters are paid between 8-22% of the final salary of the employee they supply. If they don't find anyone, they don't get paid. That is why they harvest and the poorer ones use a "scattergun" approach.

I have a vacancy advertised now that isn't with any recruitment agency, yet several have come to me and told me they have a list of candidates ready as soon as I agree to use them.

Its something you have to put up with if you want to maximise your chances of finding a new job. Don't discount possibilities just because one recruiter wasn't up to much.

Carlo Ancelotti

Recruitment agents basically want to be paid a lot of money for doing very little
In my own case the agent is making 50 euro per day on me as part if my daily rate contract. Never even met them
All they did was send in my cv and arrange an interview. They didnt even know what the details of the role were , just had a job spec that someone emailed them too