Push Bike Engine

Effects

Just came across these guys selling engines for push bikes. They are claiming you don't need tax on them. That's not the case surely? Are they just hoping to get more sales by conning people into thinking it's simpler than it is?

http://www.pushbikeengine.ie/

crosstownk

I had a (very) quick read of the installation instructions on that website. Maybe I missed a bit but it appears to me that it needs no pedalling assistance to make it move and that this means it's a mechanically propelled vehicle according to the Gardaí > http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1728&Lang=1. The only pedalling required is to start the petrol engine.

I've seen a few of these things on the road and for me, they are noisey and smelly. I'd sooner an e-bike if I was in the market for some 'assistance'.

Effects

I saw a guy on one a while back myself. He had to switch it off each time he came to some red lights. Fairly noisy things.

crosstownk

Effects wrote: »

He had to switch it off each time he came to some red lights.

Sounds like the clutch was working correctly.*



*This post reads like it belongs in the Motors forum. Case closed

johnk123

Plenty of mechanical engineering students I know seemed to be all talk about these a few years ago... it seems a popular project that many of them undertake at some point in there studies, or at least it was...

I agree with the above.. just get a moped/motorbike...

Beasty

crosstownk wrote: »

according to the Gardaí > http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1728&Lang=1.

While the specific point you mention is likely to be accurate, you do need to question the credentials of any website that thinks Motor Tax is called "road tax":pac:

Alanstrainor

I've seen two of these on my commute in and around Dublin, noisy and smelly is definitely true. But I'd have to wonder about the brakes a lot of these have too. The ones I've seen are just ancient looking cheap MTB's with regular old V-Brakes, I know they should be enough to stop you, but considering these yokes will do almost 50km/h most of the time they're in use I reckon they're not adequate.

tomasrojo

A pedelec does really sound like a better arrangement all round. If these frankenbikes are legal (or don't need a licence), it's probably just a loophole that hasn't been closed.

It appears to be a self-propelled vehicle, so it really should be treated much as a moped or motor scooter: licence and (dare I say it) helmet required.

The Minister for the Environment Mr Dempsey declared that electrically-assisted bicycles were not liable for motor tax following a review of the status of the machines within the terms of Ireland's road traffic laws.

A spokesman said: "This is because the electric power of a 'pedelec' only assists the pedalling effort and is not a source of propulsion in its own right. On this basis, pedelecs are not subject to the legal requirements relating to compulsory insurance and road tax."

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/electric-cycles-not-liable-for-tax-declares-dempsey-1.415485
("road tax" indeed, for shame.)

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

While the specific point you mention is likely to be accurate, you do need to question the credentials of any website that thinks Motor Tax is called "road tax":pac:

And, in the case of our modifying friends above, any website that thinks a bicycle is called a "push bike".

seamus

These bikes are 48cc or 80cc :eek: engines strapped onto a pushbike. So the P:W on these will mean they'll easily hit 40km/h, minimum. The 80cc ones could probably do 60km/h+ on a good day

Aside from the fact that you could be done for

1. No tax
2. No insurance
3. No licence
4. No helmet
5. Failure to obtain type approval and pay VRT

These bikes are not designed for continuous use at these speeds. The tyres and brakes are unlikely to be of sufficient quality to be safe and other components likely to wear very quickly from the stress.

The guys putting these bikes together rely on the fact that the Gardai don't really pay much attention to these bikes.

tomasrojo

I think the exemption from motor tax, compulsory insurance, helmet etc. is for vehicles whose engine acting alone can't get the vehicle above 25km/h on the flat (and require some use of the pedals to keep moving).

And, as seamus says, the frame and components aren't designed for consistent exposure to these types of speed.

traco

The EU legislation is much clearer and in typical irish fashion its half done here.

To the best of my knowledge there is a max speed that power may be applied to and that is 25kph, power can only be available while the pedals are being rotated, ie once youstop pedalling the assistance power must cut off and also the max sustained power output of the propulsion system is limited to a max of 250w.

Many electric bikes from the US are dumbed down here as they would have 500W plus motors and therefore have to be restricted for use here.

So those petrol engine ones would be illegal. Conveniently the garda piece quoted has not been written correctly to clearly state that power must only be available while pedaling. Even though from an engineering perspective I think that way is a total fudge and not as safe as an independent throttle combined with the speed and power constraints.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/08/transport-minister-questioned-on-powerful-electric-bicycles/

Alanstrainor

seamus wrote: »

These bikes are 48cc or 80cc :eek: engines strapped onto a pushbike. So the P:W on these will mean they'll easily hit 40km/h, minimum.

I race one along the canal every once in a while, I can pass him doing 45km/h if I really push it. So I'd say that's the max he can muster out of it.

But yeah... I can't understand how they're not stopped.

dreamerb

Alanstrainor wrote: »

But yeah... I can't understand how they're not stopped.

They are. Or, more accurately, at least one was, at least once, as witnessed by this randomer off of the internet. Garda was having words including "tax" and "insurance" with disgruntled owner, and it looked like they were impounding it.

seamus

dreamerb wrote: »

They are. Or, more accurately, at least one was, at least once, as witnessed by this randomer off of the internet. Garda was having words including "tax" and "insurance" with disgruntled owner, and it looked like they were impounding it.

Basically a patrol car is unlikely to spot that a bike has an engine as they blast by it, and a Garda out walking will see it go by him and then it's gone.

And the kind of person who buys one of these is not going to be the kind of person who stops at lights and junctions. So the odds of a Garda actually spotting one of these things is probably pretty low

gctest50

so ..... i can haz more gears ?

Freiwild77

Those bikes are great fun. I bought one with an 80cc engine a couple of weeks ago from the chap in PushBikeEngine and it rides really cool. They are obviously different to an ordinary bicycle.
The top speed is around 40 km/h but it shouldn't be ridden with full throttle unless you want to ditch the engine after 2 weeks. Cruising between 28 - 35 km/h is the best. Every normal bicycle can cope with that (apart from cheap Halfords crap...).
If you don't want to use the motor you can just switch it off and peddle it like an ordinary bicycle (which is a bit more difficult due to the weight of the bike).

If I really want to race around and have a workout I prefer to use my road bike. Otherwise I enjoy commuting to work without breaking out in a sweat (working in an office without shower facilities) and being stuck in traffic.

Gards don't bother me as I obey the rules of traffic. In fact I have been stopped a couple of times just out of curiosity and the bike being complemented. Other cyclist have been stopped several times at Harold's cross for going through red lights etc. (if you don't act the bollix they will leave you alone).
Before judging the bike it would advise you to try one out yourself

ted1

Freiwild77 wrote: »

Gards don't bother me as I obey the rules of traffic.

you may obey the rules of Traffic, but you certainly don't obey the rules of the road or law.

now a genuine question, how loud is the bike?

Max Rockatansky

There is a story doing the rounds of a young guy riding one of these bikes. About 30km from home he ran out of petrol and had to phone home to get his mammy or collect him. 😎