Curragh redevelopment

I said

Only for the amount of private investors it looks like it wouldn't have got up and running.

I said

Curragh racecourse set for €65m facelift
RACING • 38 MINUTES AGO
Racing headquarters is finally going to get a badly needed makeover
The Curragh racecourse is set for a €65m revamp following an announcement by the Minister for Agriculture, Food, the Marine and Defence, Simon Coveney.

At a presentation of ‘A Vision for a New Curragh’, Minister Coveney welcomed the establishment of a new company, Curragh Racecourse Limited, which will own, operate and redevelop the Curragh racecourse and training grounds.

The development plans for the venue include a new grandstand, weigh-room and parade ring, while the arrivals and reception area of the racecourse will incorporate a museum of Irish racing.

The existing stable yard will be completely refurbished, while a separate investment programme will be put in place for the training ground.

A period of consultation will now take place in advance of the submission of a planning application.

It is hoped that the development at the Kildare venue will be completed in 2018 and the intention is that racing will continue throughout the development period.

The overall investment in the project will be circa €65 million, to be financed jointly by HRI and private investment, with the objective being to complete the redevelopment without any debt.

There will be three groups of shareholders - Horse Racing Ireland, the Turf Club and private investors - who will form the board of the new company, which will be chaired by the former CEO of the ESB and current chairman of Eir, Padraig McManus.

The private investors committed at this point are the Aga Khan, Eva-Maria Bucher Haefner, Michael Tabor, Derrick Smith, John Magnier, Godolphin Ireland and JP McManus.

Discussions are under way with other parties, and further private investment is anticipated.

Curragh Racecourse Limited will assume full responsibility for the redevelopment project and, with effect from 1 January next, the business, assets and staff of the Curragh racecourse and training grounds will transfer over to the new company.

BumperD

I said wrote: »

Only for the amount of private investors it looks like it wouldn't have got up and running.

This is because it does not get the requisite footfall. The model with zero debt is the only feasible option to make it even remotely viable.

diomed

The new roof looks a bit dodgy, as it a gust of wind would take it away.

Arctic89

Obviously the people backing this won't be too concerned about this point but if we're spending €65 on a racecourse, should it not be on one capable of staging both flat and jumps meetings?

Francie Barrett

Arctic89 wrote: »

Obviously the people backing this won't be too concerned about this point but if we're spending €65 on a racecourse, should it not be on one capable of staging both flat and jumps meetings?

More importantly, do you think the extra money invested will be able to extend to another bottle opener for the bar? :pac:

BumperD

Arctic89 wrote: »

Obviously the people backing this won't be too concerned about this point but if we're spending €65 on a racecourse, should it not be on one capable of staging both flat and jumps meetings?

It's surrounded by jumps tracks so that need is catered for. No need for another dual purpose track. Will leave fresh ground for the full flat season.

Let's see who objects to this. There were objectors from unlikely quarters on the last occasion iirc

marvin80

Naas and Sligo also getting funds for redevelopments.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2015/1022/736756-naas-and-sligo-racecourses-set-for-redevelopment/

Arctic89

BumperD wrote: »

It's surrounded by jumps tracks so that need is catered for. No need for another dual purpose track. Will leave fresh ground for the full flat season.

Let's see who objects to this. There were objectors from unlikely quarters on the last occasion iirc

I suppose my point is that the vast majority of people who go to watch racing in this country go to watch Jump racing. Why spend such a large amount on a track which only gets filled once/twice a year when there are plenty of jumps tracks which could use a refurbishment?

Aidric

diomed wrote: »

The new roof looks a bit dodgy, as it a gust of wind would take it away.

Have to agree, the whole design is quite uninspiring. When you compare it to the premium track facilities in England it doesn't even come close.

byronbay2

diomed wrote: »

The new roof looks a bit dodgy, as it a gust of wind would take it away.

It's elegant and looks great. I presume the design engineers know what they're doing!

Aidric wrote: »

Have to agree, the whole design is quite uninspiring. When you compare it to the premium track facilities in England it doesn't even come close.

When finished, it will be a match for any course in the world! My only fear is that the new design is much bigger than what is there now. Will they get the crowds to fill the space or will there be 2-300 people rattling around the place, as happens on many racedays now.

http://www.curragh.ie/racing/curragh-redevelopment/

tipptom

Whats in this for all these private investors?

iamironman87

By the look of it, a hefty gust of wind mind see the roof of the stand end up on top of the Whitewater shopping centre in Newbridge!

BumperD

tipptom wrote: »

Whats in this for all these private investors?

A facility to secure flat racing in Ireland at hq, along with the sponsorship, prestige, and resulting generous prize money that they will continue to mop up for evermore, never mind the stallion fees etc from winning all the races to be hosted at the track into the future. In summary, they have everything to lose by not seeing this through.

Richard Hillman

Anybody out there this weekend? It was supposed to be a shambles.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/poor-advertisement-for-irish-racing-as-racegoers-vent-fury/287252

I usually head out for the Derby but will probably cancel the plans this year.

Auroras_encore

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Anybody out there this weekend? It was supposed to be a shambles.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/poor-advertisement-for-irish-racing-as-racegoers-vent-fury/287252

I usually head out for the Derby but will probably cancel the plans this year.

Roger Charlton said the track was in fantastic condition after decorated knight won so no problems there , I know you'd think hri would stop the rain for all the pissheads , absolute crap article by a British rag

kfallon

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Anybody out there this weekend? It was supposed to be a shambles.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/poor-advertisement-for-irish-racing-as-racegoers-vent-fury/287252

I usually head out for the Derby but will probably cancel the plans this year.

You'll be lucky to get in for Derby, reduced capacity of 6,000!

uxiant

In what other country would they be hosting Classics at a building site?

They couldn't even meet the capacity this weekend which says everything about the situation. Who wants to pay in to watch racing in the rain under the cover of temporary facilities? Shocking stuff.

Harry Angstrom

It's beyond me why they didn't switch the classics to Leopardstown for this season.

tryfix

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's beyond me why they didn't switch the classics to Leopardstown for this season.

The Curragh want to hang on to as much of Ireland's Top flat racing as possible for themselves. Sharing them out even on a temporary basis is the last thing they'd want to do.

Black_Ninja

I think its only a matter for time before the Irish Classics are much more spread out like the UK ones.

UK:

Guineas - Newmarket
Derby - Epsom
Leger - Doncaster

Ireland:

Guineas - Leopardstown
Derby - Curragh
Leger - Navan?

Harry Angstrom

tryfix wrote: »

The Curragh want to hang on to as much of Ireland's Top flat racing as possible for themselves. Sharing them out even on a temporary basis is the last thing they'd want to do.

Longchamp have had to do it by moving their meetings to Chantilly and Deauville. Royal Ascot went to York one year and the King George was run at Newbury, and even when the Rowley Course was being modernised, that year's Guineas were shifted to the July Course at Newmarket. It might be the last thing The Curragh would want to do, but sometimes there isn't much choice.

tryfix

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Longchamp have had to do it by moving their meetings to Chantilly and Deauville. Royal Ascot went to York one year and the King George was run at Newbury, and even when the Rowley Course was being modernised, that year's Guineas were shifted to the July Course at Newmarket. It might be the last thing The Curragh would want to do, but sometimes there isn't much choice.

Aye but this is Ireland where small cliques run everything according to their own desires rather than for the actual needs that need addressing

sting60

The ticket allocation is possibly as low as 3,000 due to sponsors,owners, dignitaries etc,etc with health and safety limited to 6,000 in total.No point in asking the same questions as other posts but I was there last week and to call it a shambles is an understatement and how a building site could get a safety certificate is beyond me and Sunday is family day ??

nuckeythompson

Leopardstown not having a sprint track was cited by hri as one major reason

Harry Angstrom

Ivan Yates Indo piece here. Makes plenty of valid points.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/ivan-yates-holding-derby-at-curragh-would-be-insult-to-racing-fans-nightmare-plan-needs-major-rethink-35792335.html

EICVD

Was there Saturday for the first time this year (the redevelopment itself put me off going earlier). I was one who thought it should of been completely closed but the temporary facilities do the job, certainly for small racedays like the weekend gone & with the sun shining anyway. 2000 Guineas day when the weather was ****e & a crowded Derby day could be different though.

BumperD

5,000 enjoyed the Flagship of the flat season in Ireland , Champions Day at the Curragh yesterday. No doubt this will be hailed a resounding success! I've seen more at a sheep shearing contest down the country.

diomed

I went to The Curragh on Sunday. The facilities were grand.
I was very impressed with the quality of the grass on the track. In over 40 years going there I hadn't seen better. I think they had also improved/replaced the running rails.
The only problem on Sunday was the weather. There was a howling wind mixed with rain, and occasional breaks. It was cold enough to geld a brass monkey.

uxiant

BumperD wrote: »

5,000 enjoyed the Flagship of the flat season in Ireland , Champions Day at the Curragh yesterday. No doubt this will be hailed a resounding success! I've seen more at a sheep shearing contest down the country.

Half were probably free tickets too. Laughable.

marvin80

BumperD wrote: »

5,000 enjoyed the Flagship of the flat season in Ireland , Champions Day at the Curragh yesterday. No doubt this will be hailed a resounding success! I've seen more at a sheep shearing contest down the country.

https://twitter.com/HawkWing2002/status/906912568479903744

EICVD

marvin80 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HawkWing2002/status/906912568479903744

Somewho we probably won't see at all this year, even though Ruby will say on RUK the day before they're due to run they've never been better.....

BumperD

I read an article by Blake on the lack of attendance saying it's not an issue / no need for concern as the weather was to blame and people watching on mobile etc is up and that's all that matters. Using that logic if 5,000 turned up at the FA cup final do you think the board of the FA would still be in place 6 months later?

tryfix

If the end goal is to have a flagship racecourse which will attract the cream of thoroughbreds to race there for decades to come, then there is no great harm in having small crowds at the Curragh for 2 years as a price to pay for it. As I understand it it's the the big knobs that's putting their own money into it to develop it at ridiculous cost.

When it's finished it'll be awesome, is putting up with 2 years of inconvenience really such a high price to pay in the long run?

uxiant

tryfix wrote: »

If the end goal is to have a flagship racecourse which will attract the cream of thoroughbreds to race there for decades to come, then there is no great harm in having small crowds at the Curragh for 2 years as a price to pay for it. As I understand it it's the the big knobs that's putting their own money into it to develop it at ridiculous cost.

When it's finished it'll be awesome, is putting up with 2 years of inconvenience really such a high price to pay in the long run?

Why put up with any inconvenience at all when there are several courses fit to take the fixtures while the development takes place?

And who cares about not having a straight mile for the Guineas for two years. The Poule d'Essai des Poulains was famous for going around a bend but no one cared about going to the straight mile at Deauville. It didn't downgrade the success of Brametot or The Gurkha in the slightest and at the end of the day the Guineas is the Guineas.

tryfix

uxiant wrote: »

Why put up with any inconvenience at all when there are several courses fit to take the fixtures while the development takes place?

And who cares about not having a straight mile for the Guineas for two years. The Poule d'Essai des Poulains was famous for going around a bend but no one cared about going to the straight mile at Deauville. It didn't downgrade the success of Brametot or The Gurkha in the slightest and at the end of the day the Guineas is the Guineas.

I agree entirely that the Curragh are hogging the Classics and should have been forced to farm out some of the bigger races during construction of the new stand. That they always get their own way is a sign that they have too much of a say in how flat racing in Ireland is run.


My point about the crowd size though is that it's not really that big a deal that crowd sizes were restricted during the changeover period. The Curragh as was wasn't exactly drawing huge crowds. In the future after putting up with 2 years of smaller crowds on big race days at the Curragh, the facilities will finally be in place that will require big crowds and the big marketing that will bring those crowds.

The end result should be worth the wait.

uxiant

While it's great that the Curragh is finally getting the facilities the quality of racing deserves, it's dominance over the flat fixture list is a big part of the reason why no one likes flat racing in Ireland.

The crowds are terrible because it's a pain to get to. No one gets attached to the best flat horses over here because it's so hard to even see them. The Curragh completely dominates all the top quality flat racing alienating most of the racing fans in the country. There are two Group 1s and one Group 2 that are not at the Curragh and they're all on the same day at Leopardstown.

The Pretty Polly should move to Leopardstown on the best 10f course in the country and the second day of Irish Champions Weekend should also be moved as the attendances at the Curragh are just terrible in comparison. Move the whole thing to Leopardstown and you have Ireland's best racing in a fantastic package accessible to millions. Perfect to promote flat racing in Ireland while the Leger starting in front of the grandstand at Leopardstown would also be a fantastic spectacle.

The Flying Five would be a great race to promote racing in Naas and Navan as well as some of those two year old Group 2s. Shame Cork city doesn't have a track as it's a place with a big population and no convenient access to racing, perfect for those sort of races.

BumperD

Curragh needed an overhaul. Not in dispute. I fear it's going to be a white elephant attracting very few

uxiant

tryfix wrote: »

I agree entirely that the Curragh are hogging the Classics and should have been forced to farm out some of the bigger races during construction of the new stand. That they always get their own way is a sign that they have too much of a say in how flat racing in Ireland is run.


My point about the crowd size though is that it's not really that big a deal that crowd sizes were restricted during the changeover period. The Curragh as was wasn't exactly drawing huge crowds. In the future after putting up with 2 years of smaller crowds on big race days at the Curragh, the facilities will finally be in place that will require big crowds and the big marketing that will bring those crowds.

The end result should be worth the wait.

It's not just about crowd sizes though. The camera angles on television make racing almost unbearable to watch. Imagine having a bet for the first time and watching the Curragh in its current state. You wouldn't have a clue what was going on and just go back to the football. It's all just very amateur.

Then on top of that using temporary facilities and a stand with no elevation making things impossible to see is just terrible for the public. Another sure turn off.

tryfix

uxiant wrote: »

It's not just about crowd sizes though. The camera angles on television make racing almost unbearable to watch. Imagine having a bet for the first time and watching the Curragh in its current state. You wouldn't have a clue what was going on and just go back to the football. It's all just very amateur.

Then on top of that using temporary facilities and a stand with no elevation making things impossible to see is just terrible for the public. Another sure turn off.

I'd love to see more flat group races spread around the country to make top class flat racing attractive in some kind of way that the likes of the Galway races can draw crowds.

There is more going on as regards the Curragh redevelopment than the best interests of flat racing in Ireland. Flat racing in Ireland is just an arm of the breeding industry. With the likes of Magnier stumping up their own money to get this redevelopment done, they're doing it for a reason.

The Curragh has been very good to them in their pursuit of creating saleable stallion and breeding stock. A flagship International standard racecourse looking all new and shiny bigs up the importance of race results at the Curragh Internationally and that leads to more sponsorship, higher prize money and more saleable breeding stock for stud owners.

The Curragh not Dublin is where the horse industry want potential clients to be heading to. From there there's Goffs Sales etc, big stud farms and small stud farms, trainers and dealers ready to do business surrounded by like minded people.

That's why The Curragh gets to dictate what happens to the Classics and why they don't want any other course getting their hands on their big races.

diomed

How about top hat and tails for the men, big frocks for the women at The Curragh?
And Michael D driving up the course in a state coach.

The queen uses the Irish State Coach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_State_Coach#/media/File:092SFEC_LONDON-20070917.JPG

We could use something classy
https://previews.123rf.com/images/afonskaya/afonskaya1209/afonskaya120900046/15156495-Moscow-Russia-January-02-2012-Christmas-decoration-fairy-tale-horse-with-carriage-from-electric-lamp-Stock-Photo.jpg

Jakey Rolling

Drove past yesterday and thought WTF, are they building apartment blocks there?

Having now looked at the plans, those are the 3-4 storey concrete towers going up. I hope it all looks in proportion once the stand is completed!

I also hope that there is a commensurate return on th public monies invested.

The Mig

The Tetrarch

The Irish Field website
NEWS: HRI steps in to delay Curragh opening.
New-look headquarters won't open until May 6th to allow more time for operational testing.

The first meeting was planned for 13th April.
This week I paid €210 for a Seniors season ticket.
And I sent them an e-mail asking was there motorcycle parking (other than on the grass). Perhaps that threw off the opening date.
Have they charging points for electric vehicles?

caff

Ideally they would have redeveloped the old train platform there behind the stands, would make a huge difference for the Derby etc

IAMAMORON

caff wrote: »

Ideally they would have redeveloped the old train platform there behind the stands, would make a huge difference for the Derby etc

At last someone has said it,and lets hope they do. Not just for the Dublin train but the Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Kilkenny, Belfast, Castlebar train. Oh sorry Galway also and if I have forgotten anyone else apologies.

It is painful and a nuisance getting from Kildare town to the track every time. I might not be doing any Kildare taxi drivers any favours here. But it makes massive sense to open up that station again.

abarkie

caff wrote: »

Ideally they would have redeveloped the old train platform there behind the stands, would make a huge difference for the Derby etc

I can remember getting the train a few years ago when i went the derby

Shall we say a few ladies had not appreciated the "quality" of the platform for their heels to be accommodated

abarkie

IAMAMORON wrote: »

At last someone has said it,and lets hope they do. Not just for the Dublin train but the Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Kilkenny, Belfast, Castlebar train. Oh sorry Galway also and if I have forgotten anyone else apologies.

It is painful and a nuisance getting from Kildare town to the track every time. I might not be doing any Kildare taxi drivers any favours here. But it makes massive sense to open up that station again.

When I went, my memory thinks, that they used to do a "special" stop for the trains about 15 - 30 mins after racing each way