1st Post. :) Can my employer deduct my wages if i do not take a break?

feckineejit

Hello, so my employer has placed a notice above our clock in machine, I have a photo of it, but cannot post it, but it reads as follows, "anyone that does not clock in or out for breaks will have an extra hour per shift deducted from their hours each week" Can they in fact do this? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

ted1

feckineejit wrote: »

Hello, so my employer has placed a notice above our clock in machine, I have a photo of it, but cannot post it, but it reads as follows, "anyone that does not clock in or out for breaks will have an extra hour per shift deducted from their hours each week" Can they in fact do this? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

It makes sense, if your dint clock out and you take an hour break you owe them an hour

Wabbit Ears

yep, fair enough, if you dont mark the time they just use a flat hour for lunch.

you don't get paid for your hour lunch so the sign is both reasonable and normal.

aisling86

We get 1hr automatically deducted from our click in & out time each day paid for 7.5hrs no matter what

feckineejit

Generally speaking I wouldnt take a break, I usually dont have time, I work at a busy hotel. What im trying to clarify is, if i dont take a break, and dont clock out, can they legally take an extra hour on me.An hour that i have worked for.It seems like stealing.

Maximus Alexander

They are asking you not to work it... So naturally they're not going to pay you for it when you ignore them.

feckineejit

Thanks for the replies all, still doesnt really tie it up for me though. Surely theres only a few reasons why a company can make deductions from pay, eg. Till shortages on my shift, uniforms... im drawing a blank there now but, you catch my drift?

RossieMan

They have asked you to take a break, they aren't going to pay you for an hour. If you want to work for free I'm sure they'll be happy to let you.

bisset

I think there is something in the Factories Act which means you have to take a break if working 7 hours or more. How ever the hotel and catering sector seems to be a law unto inself. NERA should be able to advise you.

Not Quite A Hipster

When you're break time arrives just stop and relax a little. Your employer obviously wants this so just chill out a little. He has a set wage bill and if you never take your hour he has to pay an extra 5 hrs a week (if it's a 5 day wk of course). Work is important but so is rest and breaks, life's too short brother

Wanderer78

start taking your breaks op. if you're needed to work during it, which id highly recommend against, make sure to negotiate your terms for doing so prior to this if possible. basically ignore if works needs to be done during your break times, thats your bosses problem. best of luck with things

Wabbit Ears

Most people in hotels just agree lunch time with the shift manager and take it. Im always busy, i could work 20 hours a day if I let myself.

You need to manage your time and the people around you better.

I suggest that 15 mins or so before your lunch, you say to the shift manager, I'm taking my lunch at X time so they can arrange cover.

An American life trainer taught me this mumbo jumbo: You manage how people interact with you. Every other person is a bottomless pit and people will keep dumping stuff into that pit so long as they cannot see that it is full. Once you tell someone that you're full and put a time on when you will be able to do more, most people, ( unless they are in some way sociapathic) are cool with that and will just work around it now that they know your limits and boundaries. The time bit is the most important. You never say No, You set limits.

Example: "I'm taking lunch in 15 mins" leaves the other person with the opportunity to give another time but not to say NO, you cant take lunch at all. Just shift times but the fact that you are taking your lunch is not in question.

Boskowski

Same in our place, its in line with some work time act or another. I couldn't quote the exact act. But basically just clock in and out. You don't have to clock in and out for a full hour. Clock in and out say for 15 or 20 minutes or whatever it takes to have your lunch. Then they will deduct you the 15 or 20 minutes. But if you don't bother clocking in and out at all they will assume the full hour to be in compliance with said act I can't name.

highlydebased

I wonder if they mean that they will dock you an hour if you don't clock in/out because you might be taking liberties and not coming back on time etc. That is what I'd get from it anyway

Skintwin

Hey OP!
In my experience the main reason that employers make you clock in and clock our for breaks is because they have wanted to crack down on people taking the p*ss with how long they're gone on break for. If people don't clock out and back in then they have no way of telling if you took a 10 minute lunch, or an hour and 10 minute lunch! Makes sense from their side of things making sure that people don't take the mick, but I really don't think that they can dock wages as far as I know (and I'll admit I'm no expert!)

ted1

feckineejit wrote: »

Generally speaking I wouldnt take a break, I usually dont have time, I work at a busy hotel. What im trying to clarify is, if i dont take a break, and dont clock out, can they legally take an extra hour on me.An hour that i have worked for.It seems like stealing.

Here's a life lesson , every job is busy your not too important to it take a break. There is a legal requirement to take a break, also from a employer point of view those that dint take breaks are not as efficient as those that too.

feckineejit

highlydebased wrote: »

I wonder if they mean that they will dock you an hour if you don't clock in/out because you might be taking liberties and not coming back on time etc. That is what I'd get from it anyway

This is also what I was thinking. Deducting an extra hour as punishment in a sense... I can't be sure really though. Cheers for the input.

Wabbit Ears

feckineejit wrote: »

This is also what I was thinking. Deducting an extra hour as punishment in a sense... I can't be sure really though. Cheers for the input.

that's completely not what the guy said.

Dr.Internet

Why don't you take your breaks? From a mangers point of view it's quite irritating when staff won't take breaks or go home. You're not that busy, the place won't fall apart without you and you are disrupting the flow of the rest of the shift. Also it makes me wonder if work is the only thing in their life and I pity them, and consider them a bit simple.

It's come to the point where they've come and asked you to take breaks so it is obviously something that bothers them

Take the break!

noodler

I also technically get deducted two hours (altho not from my wages) if I don't remember to clock out for lunch.

The_Conductor

If you're working over 7 hours in a day- you are expected to take 2 fifteen minute and 1 half hour break, as far as I know (longer if you like). Where I work- if you don't clock out for lunch- you get a 2 hour lunch penalty. If you clock out for less than a half hour- you get a half hour taken off you. If you forget to clock out in the evening- you're clocked out automatically as though you finished at 4PM. Etc. etc.

There are rules about having to take breaks and lunch- and companies and businesses can get into trouble if they don't allow those breaks. It is a bit of a stretch to penalise people who don't take them- but it is one tool that companies use to try to get people to take their breaks.

uck51js9zml2yt

You're required by law to take breaks and your employer is required to provide them.
He's requiring you to take them and doesn't know if you've taken them or not if you've not clocked out.
He's assuming you have and more so is requiring you to.

The_Conductor

Corey Worried Rug wrote: »

You're required by law to take breaks and your employer is required to provide them.
He's requiring you to take them and doesn't know if you've taken them or not if you've not clocked out.
He's assuming you have and more so is requiring you to.

What happens in practice though- is through short staffing- people are obligated to clock out (and punished if they don't)- however, they don't have a break- they keep working- and clock back in again after the minimum amount of time. This happens all over the place- its not unique to the hospitality sector- its a nudge-nudge wink-wink- employers can show that they are following the letter of the law- and enforcing it through draconian penalties if people do not clock out- but not the spirit of the law (because there is still an expectation that people will continue to work nonetheless..........)

This happens all over the place- in both the private and public sectors- no sector is immune from it.

Look at it another way. Say you're rostered 8am to 5pm and for whatever reason only get enough time to grap a coffee and a toilet break. You then go out to your car and drive home. You are tired and your sugar levels are low. You have an accident. Who is really to blame? Your employer or you? Take your breaks. They are given for a reason.

Tordelback

The other issue for the employer is that by not taking breaks you are increasing your working hours and thus (potentially) either increasing the weekly wages bill, or if you're not getting paid for hours you 'claim' to be working reducing the effective hourly rate below minimum wage.

Incidentally, unless your industry is covered by a specific agreement, your legal entitlement to a break is 30 minutes (unpaid) for every 6 hour period

The_Conductor

Employers are covering themselves though- if a dispute or a case ever arose- they'd simply point at the clock- and say- look- Mary Ann clocked out from 13.15 to 13.45- she did take a 30 minute lunch break. That Mary Ann never left her desk- is not recorded anywhere- and if she crashes on the way home through exhaustion- she is to blame.

This *is* the normal- not the exception. Actually managing to take a break- is rapidly becoming exceptional.

efb

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0020/

Fr D Maugire

Having experienced working in hospitality, it is a law onto itself. I remember working 14 hours shifts, no over time, no anything extra, just flat rate the whole time. Working 14 hours entitled you to something like 2 hours break but you just never ever got that full amount. Yeah you got 15 minutes somewhere and 30 minutes for food break but after that breaks were thin on the ground. Employers are quick to deduct you time if a minute late but offer no bonus for working extra hours as a 14 hour shift is.

Very often, you would be under-staffed and there would no time for breaks becasue you were so busy. Take your actual entitled breaks whilst busy and you would soon be in the bad books and headed for the exit door.

It is like staff food, employers can deduct for staff food even if you don't actually want to eat it. Too bad for you. There is also no specification on standard of food so they can serve up any old crap, e.g leftovers from breakfast/functions and still take the full amount. Very often the standard of food nowhere matches the amount that is being deducted yet there is nothing that can be done as the law is so vague.

Basically employers screw their staff over any way then can in the hospitality industry but still expect them to provide top dollar service:rolleyes:

An Ri rua

PS OP, its worth noting that no deductions from wages are legal without consent, apart from matters pertaining to worked time. Breakages, tills, that's all illegal. Unless I am very much mistaken.

brandnewaward

till shortages cant be deducted either

SusieBlue

Just wanted to chip in and say I can sympathise with the OP regarding taking breaks. I also work in hospitality, in a business that isn't exactly under staffed but we certainly don't have anyone to spare. We don't get breaks, there simply isn't time, we are too busy.

I just worked Thursday - Sunday for the bank holiday and I clocked up 68 hours over those 4 days. If i managed to get 15 minutes to myself twice during those shifts it was a lot.

Obviously, it wouldn't be like this on a normal weekend, but its par for course that on a normal 8 hour shift, we aren't offered and we don't expect breaks.

Where I work is also a bar, so after a certain time, there isn't anywhere in close proximity to buy food to eat during rest periods and we don't have a staff room or canteen, just a narrow corridor with lockers so there wouldn't even be anywhere to take a break while the bar is open.

Highly illegal but as PP's said hospitality is ridiculous.

So if your offered the breaks, I'd 100% take them. However I too would be extremely annoyed if pay was being deducted for breaks I wasn't taking when I didn't have the option for a break.