"Former" Leinster players...

Moflojo · 23-10-2015 11:28am #1

It must be really tough being a 'former Leinster player'. No matter where your rugby career takes you, and however many seasons after leaving your native province, you will never amount to anything more than a "former Leinster player", at least in the eyes of the Irish media.

Look at poor Felix Jones, for example, who is now in his seventh season plying his trade with lowly Munster somewhere down the country, and yet he's still a 'former Leinster player'. Poor chap, he must find it so difficult captaining Munster when his allegiance is still so firmly with Leinster, for whom he played one whole season as a senior player. Oh the memories...

Not to mention Felix's fellow former Leinster player, and current Munster exile, Ian Keatley, who has had to suffer the ignominy of being a former Leinster player at two separate lesser provincial sides. The shame of it. Poor auld Ian never even got a senior cap for Leinster before he was banished beyond the pale.

Probably the only thing worse than being a former Leinster player is to forever be known as a 'former Leinster academy player' who never even made the senior squad. Are those lads even allowed back into their native parishes once they've been tarred with that brush?

The incredible thing about the former Leinster player phenomenon is its one-way nature - talent just flows out of that particular province but none of it seems to flow back in from any other Irish region. Certainly there are no 'former Munster players' or 'former Connacht players' playing rugby for both Leinster and Ireland. Don't be ridiculous, sure those neanderthals probably couldn't even spell 'academy' not to mention run one.

The latest 'former Leinster player' to be exiled to the shticks has just been identified by The Irish Times (The best F.L.P. spotters in the business, to be fair to them). His name is Jordan Coughlan and, alas, he is a 'former Leinster flanker'. God love him. We pray that he will have the strength to endure his time in hell, or Limerick as it's known locally.

From today's Irish Times:

The 22-year-old flanker who joined in the summer, was one of three ex-Leinster players to score against Cardiff with Andrew Conway and Ian Keatley also touching down in the 35-27 win.

Sangre · 23-10-2015 11:34am

Don't mind it. Its journalists being lazy - its just a polite and easy way of describing a player 'good, but not great'.

Haznat · 23-10-2015 11:36am

Will they be accepted in their new parishes is what I'd be most concerned about.

sydthebeat · 23-10-2015 11:36am

FFS.....

laraghrider · 23-10-2015 11:39am

It's not something restricted to rugby mind you it's a lazy irish journalist thing. Watching the Arsenal v Bayern game the other night and 3 times Petr Cech was referred to as the ex-Chelsea goal keeper. Not sure why they do it or to what point they are trying to make but I see it a lot across multiple sports.

Sangre · 23-10-2015 11:39am

Haznat wrote: »

Will they be accepted in their new parishes is what I'd be most concerned about.

They will be able to use the letter of good standing issued by their current parish which they used in the initial transfer process.

Neil3030 · 23-10-2015 11:42am

It's our version of "out of" that you see in American sports and where guys went to collage.

"The 22 year old rookie out of Utah State"

Goes all the way to

"The 39 year old veteren out of the University of Tennessee"

errlloyd · 23-10-2015 11:42am

I honestly find it less annoying than.

"Former 'insert secondary school here' player".

Although someone did point out all our points against Argentina were scored by Blackrock college players.

Thud · 23-10-2015 11:43am

Mike McCarthy is constantly referred to as former a Connacht player

Moflojo · 23-10-2015 11:44am

Neil3030 wrote: »

It's our version of "out of" that you see in American sports and where guys went to collage.

"The 22 year old rookie out of Utah State"

Goes all the way to

"The 39 year old veteren out of the University of Tennessee"

I don't think that comparison holds up fully but I get what you mean - a lazy bit of 'colour' for the commentator to complete his sentences with.

Moflojo · 23-10-2015 11:51am

Thud wrote: »

Mike McCarthy is constantly referred to as former a Connacht player

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

WarZ · 23-10-2015 1:02pm

Moflojo wrote: »

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

errlloyd · 23-10-2015 1:16pm

Cronin Ross and Reddan are pretty consistently referred to as for me connacht quins and wasps players.

irishbucsfan · 23-10-2015 1:25pm

WarZ wrote: »

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

Felix Jones played for Leinster once against Connacht.

Went through the academy but was playing for Seapoint the majority of those years.

Reddan had ~30 caps for Munster by the way. Much more than barely playing for Munster, Munster were extremely unhappy when he left.

bilston · 23-10-2015 1:29pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I honestly find it less annoying than.

"Former 'insert secondary school here' player".

Although someone did point out all our points against Argentina were scored by Blackrock college players.

Yeah you get that a lot during Ulster games.

pickarooney · 23-10-2015 3:04pm

Is it 'ironic' in rugby when a player togs out against his former team or is that just a soccer phenomenon?

WarZ · 23-10-2015 3:22pm

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

Reddan as stated is referred to as a former Wasps player, its where he spent the majority of his career beforehand. Jennings and Cullen were also routinely referred to as former Leicester players.

The point is its not some 'Dublin based media conspiracy' to make the public think that only Munster are poaching players.

Bogsnorkler · 23-10-2015 3:25pm

WarZ wrote: »

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

Reddan as stated is referred to as a former Wasps player, its where he spent the majority of his career beforehand. Jennings and Cullen were also routinely referred to as former Leicester players.

The point is its not some 'Dublin based media conspiracy' to make the public think that only Munster are poaching players.

What is your point? You made an incorrect statement. Take it like a man

For what it's worth, the Munster academy has been and remains WAAAAAY behind the other provinces. Yes plenty of internationals are coming through, however the level of player below that are not being produced in enough quantitiy.

And when they are they get managed badly and end up leaving (JJ, Nagle etc.)

sydthebeat · 23-10-2015 3:33pm

WarZ wrote: »

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

nope, 1 appearance

Ed The Equalizer · 23-10-2015 3:53pm

So you're not too happy with Munster lowering themselves to signing players who didn't make it at Leinster? ;-)

Something like 75% of the IT's readership is in Leinster, so it's somewhat relevant for the majority of its audience.

I didn't even know Keatley and Jones were at Leinster, which backs up your point.

sydthebeat · 23-10-2015 3:58pm

its simply lazy journalism, making up of numbers in an article......

jm08 · 23-10-2015 4:01pm

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

So you're not too happy with Munster lowering themselves to signing players who didn't make it at Leinster? ;-)

Something like 75% of the IT's readership is in Leinster, so it's somewhat relevant for the majority of its audience.

I didn't even know Keatley and Jones were at Leinster, which backs up your point.

Not all of us living in Leinster are Leinster supporters. A lot of people from outside Leinster living in Leinster. If you moved to Cork, would you start supporting Munster?

WarZ · 23-10-2015 4:02pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

nope, 1 appearance

Strange that Cheika went so mad about him leaving then. Although in fairness he didn't turn out great

alias no.9 · 23-10-2015 4:04pm

WarZ wrote: »

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

Jones played once for Leinster
Reddan 29 times for Munster

WarZ · 23-10-2015 4:05pm

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

What is your point? You made an incorrect statement. Take it like a man

For what it's worth, the Munster academy has been and remains WAAAAAY behind the other provinces. Yes plenty of internationals are coming through, however the level of player below that are not being produced in enough quantitiy.

And when they are they get managed badly and end up leaving (JJ, Nagle etc.)

The Munster academy has been in freefall for awhile now. Signing a Leinster academy player to put into their own academy is really taking the biscuit.

Although what they have produced has been very good (Murray, Zebo, Peter O'Mahony)

Tox56 · 23-10-2015 4:05pm

Moflojo wrote: »

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

What about when Reddan is referred to as a "former Wasps player" as he very frequently is, how is it any different? He played far more for Wasps than he ever did for Munster

jm08 · 23-10-2015 4:07pm

WarZ wrote: »

Strange that Cheika went so mad about him leaving then. Although in fairness he didn't turn out great

Lay off smart comments about Felix who has had some horendous injuries to deal with. He is a very fine player.

WarZ · 23-10-2015 4:08pm

jm08 wrote: »

Lay off smart comments about Felix who has had some horendous injuries to deal with. He is a very fine player.

It wasn't a 'smart' comment, he didn't turn out to be a great player. That is a fact. Certainly not a player that warranted the sort of response that Cheika allegedly produced.

jm08 · 23-10-2015 4:11pm

Tox56 wrote: »

What about when Reddan is referred to as a "former Wasps player" as he very frequently is, how is it any different? He played far more for Wasps than he ever did for Munster

He probably played a bit more for Munster than Felix, Keatley or Jordi Coghlan played for Leinster. Conway got a few games with Leinster.

Bridge93 · 23-10-2015 4:13pm

Conway got over 40 games and a couple of winners medals at Leinster

jm08 · 23-10-2015 4:19pm

WarZ wrote: »

It wasn't a 'smart' comment, he didn't turn out to be a great player. That is a fact. Certainly not a player that warranted the sort of response that Cheika allegedly produced.

He won an underage Grand Slam, he had a super tournament in the Churchill Cup (he was playing Ireland A before he played provincial rugby). From what I recall hearing is that Cheika was so furious that he was leaving that he didn't speak to him for the rest of the season and that is why he didn't feature in any of Leinster's games.

He had two very serious injuries (his first was from a tackle by Johnny O'Concrete) and from what he has said since he is extremely lucky to be walking, let alone playing professional rugby.

"Former" Leinster players...

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