"Former" Leinster players...

Moflojo

It must be really tough being a 'former Leinster player'. No matter where your rugby career takes you, and however many seasons after leaving your native province, you will never amount to anything more than a "former Leinster player", at least in the eyes of the Irish media.

Look at poor Felix Jones, for example, who is now in his seventh season plying his trade with lowly Munster somewhere down the country, and yet he's still a 'former Leinster player'. Poor chap, he must find it so difficult captaining Munster when his allegiance is still so firmly with Leinster, for whom he played one whole season as a senior player. Oh the memories...

Not to mention Felix's fellow former Leinster player, and current Munster exile, Ian Keatley, who has had to suffer the ignominy of being a former Leinster player at two separate lesser provincial sides. The shame of it. Poor auld Ian never even got a senior cap for Leinster before he was banished beyond the pale.

Probably the only thing worse than being a former Leinster player is to forever be known as a 'former Leinster academy player' who never even made the senior squad. Are those lads even allowed back into their native parishes once they've been tarred with that brush?

The incredible thing about the former Leinster player phenomenon is its one-way nature - talent just flows out of that particular province but none of it seems to flow back in from any other Irish region. Certainly there are no 'former Munster players' or 'former Connacht players' playing rugby for both Leinster and Ireland. Don't be ridiculous, sure those neanderthals probably couldn't even spell 'academy' not to mention run one.

The latest 'former Leinster player' to be exiled to the shticks has just been identified by The Irish Times (The best F.L.P. spotters in the business, to be fair to them). His name is Jordan Coughlan and, alas, he is a 'former Leinster flanker'. God love him. We pray that he will have the strength to endure his time in hell, or Limerick as it's known locally.

From today's Irish Times:

The 22-year-old flanker who joined in the summer, was one of three ex-Leinster players to score against Cardiff with Andrew Conway and Ian Keatley also touching down in the 35-27 win.

Sangre

Don't mind it. Its journalists being lazy - its just a polite and easy way of describing a player 'good, but not great'.

Haznat

Will they be accepted in their new parishes is what I'd be most concerned about.

sydthebeat

FFS.....

laraghrider

It's not something restricted to rugby mind you it's a lazy irish journalist thing. Watching the Arsenal v Bayern game the other night and 3 times Petr Cech was referred to as the ex-Chelsea goal keeper. Not sure why they do it or to what point they are trying to make but I see it a lot across multiple sports.

Sangre

Haznat wrote: »

Will they be accepted in their new parishes is what I'd be most concerned about.

They will be able to use the letter of good standing issued by their current parish which they used in the initial transfer process.

Neil3030

It's our version of "out of" that you see in American sports and where guys went to collage.

"The 22 year old rookie out of Utah State"

Goes all the way to

"The 39 year old veteren out of the University of Tennessee"

errlloyd

I honestly find it less annoying than.

"Former 'insert secondary school here' player".

Although someone did point out all our points against Argentina were scored by Blackrock college players.

Thud

Mike McCarthy is constantly referred to as former a Connacht player

Moflojo

Neil3030 wrote: »

It's our version of "out of" that you see in American sports and where guys went to collage.

"The 22 year old rookie out of Utah State"

Goes all the way to

"The 39 year old veteren out of the University of Tennessee"

I don't think that comparison holds up fully but I get what you mean - a lazy bit of 'colour' for the commentator to complete his sentences with.

Moflojo

Thud wrote: »

Mike McCarthy is constantly referred to as former a Connacht player

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

WarZ

Moflojo wrote: »

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

errlloyd

Cronin Ross and Reddan are pretty consistently referred to as for me connacht quins and wasps players.

irishbucsfan

WarZ wrote: »

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

Felix Jones played for Leinster once against Connacht.

Went through the academy but was playing for Seapoint the majority of those years.

Reddan had ~30 caps for Munster by the way. Much more than barely playing for Munster, Munster were extremely unhappy when he left.

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

I honestly find it less annoying than.

"Former 'insert secondary school here' player".

Although someone did point out all our points against Argentina were scored by Blackrock college players.

Yeah you get that a lot during Ulster games.

pickarooney

Is it 'ironic' in rugby when a player togs out against his former team or is that just a soccer phenomenon?

WarZ

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

Reddan as stated is referred to as a former Wasps player, its where he spent the majority of his career beforehand. Jennings and Cullen were also routinely referred to as former Leicester players.

The point is its not some 'Dublin based media conspiracy' to make the public think that only Munster are poaching players.

Bogsnorkler

WarZ wrote: »

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

Reddan as stated is referred to as a former Wasps player, its where he spent the majority of his career beforehand. Jennings and Cullen were also routinely referred to as former Leicester players.

The point is its not some 'Dublin based media conspiracy' to make the public think that only Munster are poaching players.

What is your point? You made an incorrect statement. Take it like a man

For what it's worth, the Munster academy has been and remains WAAAAAY behind the other provinces. Yes plenty of internationals are coming through, however the level of player below that are not being produced in enough quantitiy.

And when they are they get managed badly and end up leaving (JJ, Nagle etc.)

sydthebeat

WarZ wrote: »

I could've sworn I saw Felix play for the Leinster team a lot more than once. Unless you mean starts?

nope, 1 appearance

Ed The Equalizer

So you're not too happy with Munster lowering themselves to signing players who didn't make it at Leinster? ;-)

Something like 75% of the IT's readership is in Leinster, so it's somewhat relevant for the majority of its audience.

I didn't even know Keatley and Jones were at Leinster, which backs up your point.

sydthebeat

its simply lazy journalism, making up of numbers in an article......

jm08

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

So you're not too happy with Munster lowering themselves to signing players who didn't make it at Leinster? ;-)

Something like 75% of the IT's readership is in Leinster, so it's somewhat relevant for the majority of its audience.

I didn't even know Keatley and Jones were at Leinster, which backs up your point.

Not all of us living in Leinster are Leinster supporters. A lot of people from outside Leinster living in Leinster. If you moved to Cork, would you start supporting Munster?

WarZ

sydthebeat wrote: »

nope, 1 appearance

Strange that Cheika went so mad about him leaving then. Although in fairness he didn't turn out great

alias no.9

WarZ wrote: »

It's a bit silly, Reddan, Ross and Cronin barely played any rugby at Munster whereas Felix Jones played for Leinster many times. Similar for Conway. I've seen Keatley referred to as a former Connacht player A LOT more to be honest. Mike McCarthy is consistently referred to as a former Connacht player. Jordan Coughlan was just signed from Leinster so of course he will be referred to as a former Leinster man.

Jones played once for Leinster
Reddan 29 times for Munster

WarZ

Bogsnorkler wrote: »

What is your point? You made an incorrect statement. Take it like a man

For what it's worth, the Munster academy has been and remains WAAAAAY behind the other provinces. Yes plenty of internationals are coming through, however the level of player below that are not being produced in enough quantitiy.

And when they are they get managed badly and end up leaving (JJ, Nagle etc.)

The Munster academy has been in freefall for awhile now. Signing a Leinster academy player to put into their own academy is really taking the biscuit.

Although what they have produced has been very good (Murray, Zebo, Peter O'Mahony)

Tox56

Moflojo wrote: »

That's true enough, but he played the vast majority of his senior career with Connacht before moving to Leinster. I guess my irritation is with the constant reference to players that were never really long-term senior players with Leinster being referred to as 'former Leinster Players'. If Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddin, and Mike Ross were referred to as 'former Munster players' my argument would crumble.

What about when Reddan is referred to as a "former Wasps player" as he very frequently is, how is it any different? He played far more for Wasps than he ever did for Munster

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

Strange that Cheika went so mad about him leaving then. Although in fairness he didn't turn out great

Lay off smart comments about Felix who has had some horendous injuries to deal with. He is a very fine player.

WarZ

jm08 wrote: »

Lay off smart comments about Felix who has had some horendous injuries to deal with. He is a very fine player.

It wasn't a 'smart' comment, he didn't turn out to be a great player. That is a fact. Certainly not a player that warranted the sort of response that Cheika allegedly produced.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

What about when Reddan is referred to as a "former Wasps player" as he very frequently is, how is it any different? He played far more for Wasps than he ever did for Munster

He probably played a bit more for Munster than Felix, Keatley or Jordi Coghlan played for Leinster. Conway got a few games with Leinster.

Bridge93

Conway got over 40 games and a couple of winners medals at Leinster

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

It wasn't a 'smart' comment, he didn't turn out to be a great player. That is a fact. Certainly not a player that warranted the sort of response that Cheika allegedly produced.

He won an underage Grand Slam, he had a super tournament in the Churchill Cup (he was playing Ireland A before he played provincial rugby). From what I recall hearing is that Cheika was so furious that he was leaving that he didn't speak to him for the rest of the season and that is why he didn't feature in any of Leinster's games.

He had two very serious injuries (his first was from a tackle by Johnny O'Concrete) and from what he has said since he is extremely lucky to be walking, let alone playing professional rugby.

thomond2006

WarZ wrote: »

It wasn't a 'smart' comment, he didn't turn out to be a great player. That is a fact. Certainly not a player that warranted the sort of response that Cheika allegedly produced.

A certain poster is going to be very upset at this comment regarding Felix, King of the Fullbacks.

sullivlo

jm08 wrote: »

Not all of us living in Leinster are Leinster supporters. A lot of people from outside Leinster living in Leinster. If you moved to Cork, would you start supporting Munster?

When I lived in Cork I used to travel to Thomond and Musgrave to watch games. A bit like awec and thomand going to the RDS. I wouldn't support Munster against Leinster, but I'd certainly support them against most other teams.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

He probably played a bit more for Munster than Felix, Keatley or Jordi Coghlan played for Leinster. Conway got a few games with Leinster.

I hear Keatley called a former Connacht player more than anything. And you do hear Mike Ross referred to as a Corkman, or Reddan and Cronin as Limerickmen. Conway has played almost as many games for Leinster as he has for Munster.

WarZ

jm08 wrote: »

He won an underage Grand Slam.

Along with a lot of other players who never even went on to get professional contracts anywhere. Are they 'great players' too?

When I speak of great players I refer to the likes of Heaslip, Murray, Best, Kearney. Do you think Felix Jones is anywhere close to these guys?

Injuries are irrelevant I was stating a fact. There can be a lot of reasons why a player never reaches their potential, I am not arguing those reasons I am simply saying that in hindsight Felix Jones didn't become the player that Cheika was convinced he would.

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

Along with a lot of other players who never even went on to get professional contracts anywhere. Are they 'great players' too?

When I speak of great players I refer to the likes of Heaslip, Murray, Best, Kearney. Do you think Felix Jones is anywhere close to these guys?

Injuries are irrelevant I was stating a fact. There can be a lot of reasons why a player never reaches their potential, I am not arguing those reasons I am simply saying that in hindsight Felix Jones didn't become the player that Cheika was convinced he would.

Well, if going on hindsight, perhaps if he stayed in Leinster and didn't have 2 very serious injuries, the story might have been different.

PS - Rob Kearney isn't the player he was a few years ago - possibly to do with a few injuries he has had.

WarZ

jm08 wrote: »

Well, if going on hindsight, perhaps if he stayed in Leinster and didn't have 2 very serious injuries, the story might have been different.

PS - Rob Kearney isn't the player he was a few years ago - possibly to do with a few injuries he has had.

And yet he is still miles above Felix Jones.

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

Along with a lot of other players who never even went on to get professional contracts anywhere. Are they 'great players' too?

When I speak of great players I refer to the likes of Heaslip, Murray, Best, Kearney. Do you think Felix Jones is anywhere close to these guys?

Injuries are irrelevant I was stating a fact. There can be a lot of reasons why a player never reaches their potential, I am not arguing those reasons I am simply saying that in hindsight Felix Jones didn't become the player that Cheika was convinced he would.

How many underage grandslams have Ireland won since then? You need a fair few good players together to do that - and he made that team.

jm08

WarZ wrote: »

And yet he is still miles above Felix Jones.

You are saying that after last weekend ?

swiwi_

It's like when Jared Payne tags out for Ulster, and they keep referring to him as a "former" Blues player. I mean, come on...






...everyone knows he played 2 seasons for the Crusaders.

Celly Smunt

Is it really all that important?

If this keeps up there'll be no shoulders left in the south west from all the chipping.

irishbucsfan

WarZ wrote: »

Strange that Cheika went so mad about him leaving then. Although in fairness he didn't turn out great

Felix Jones came through the original version of what is now the academy, although it wasn't quite the same back then. It was full of back three players like Jones, Carr, Artemiev and Monaghan. Pretty strong year for the academy considering it also had Healy and O'Brien. This was back before any real Heineken Cup success so attendances were lower and budgets were a little tighter . Luke Fitzgerald had skipped the academy and gone straight into the senior team so there wasn't much room for another young lad. The story goes that the coaching setup really liked Jones but had to fight very hard with the upper management for the cash to sign one of the back 3 guys to a permanent deal because they spent a lot of money pursuing Nacewa. They eventually got the permission only to find that Jones had quietly gone away and got a deal elsewhere during the saga so Cheika went mad and froze Jones out of the squad and he went back to Seapoint.

Those injuries were very unfortunate, he was looking in those days like being a star for Leinster. Himself and Niall Morris both probably the best back 3 prospects we let get away.

But I don't understand the point of this thread. If you describe any of these guys as ex-Leinster guys it's correct. If three of them score in the same match its just an interesting tidbit to throw in to add a bit of colour, just as if Reddan and Ross scored in a Leinster match.

CatFromHue

WarZ wrote: »

When I speak of great players I refer to the likes of Heaslip, Murray, Best, Kearney. Do you think Felix Jones is anywhere close to these guys?

lol weren't you calling these guys ****e the other day?

:pac:

Zzippy

This thread is going nowhere other than a slide into inter-provincial BS and infractions.

Closed