question for the limousin breeders

annubis

well folks have 2 pb maiden limo heifers by elite flag, they will be coming indoors shortly and I am hoping to put them in calf, they wont be far off yr and half age wise. they arent super stylish or anything but are nice heifers.
was wondering that to give them, have EBY and KJB straws and was thinking EBY would be nice and easy for their first time, what about on dit, would he be suitable for maidens? also think i have a few straws of ampertaine hollywood. anyway would be interested to hear lads suggestions?
thanks

patsy_mccabe

I have 2 Elite Flag PB heifers. I find he breeds quiet, muscley but small cattle.
So I would be tending to breed a bull with a good skeletal value to counteract this.

So EBY is 4% Percentile for skeletal.
KJB is 43%
ONI is 65%

So I'd stay away from EBY as you would end up with very small cattle.
ONI would be my choice. But I'm only starting out at this game.

annubis

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I have 2 Elite Flag PB heifers. I find he breeds quiet, muscley but small cattle.
So I would be tending to breed a bull with a good skeletal value to counteract this.

So EBY is 4% Percentile for skeletal.
KJB is 43%
ONI is 65%

So I'd stay away from EBY as you would end up with very small cattle.
ONI would be my choice. But I'm only starting out at this game.

thanks patsy
excuse my ignorance but what do those skeletal figures actually mean?

Kovu

Is On-Dit not very hard to get now? And very expensive if you can find the straws.
We used THZ on maiden PB Lims this year- A CWI heifer, RHF heifer and an ERE heifer. Would have used KJB or EBY either but preferred the look of THZ. Semen is limited as well though, we were lucky our AI man has a good stock of him. Also used KJB on a maiden blonde heifer who is off a pb lm and her time is up in a week, she looks quite light so I'm hoping she'll pop it out herself.

annubis

Kovu wrote: »

Is On-Dit not very hard to get now? And very expensive if you can find the straws.
We used THZ on maiden PB Lims this year- A CWI heifer, RHF heifer and an ERE heifer. Would have used KJB or EBY either but preferred the look of THZ. Semen is limited as well though, we were lucky our AI man has a good stock of him. Also used KJB on a maiden blonde heifer who is off a pb lm and her time is up in a week, she looks quite light so I'm hoping she'll pop it out herself.

have on dit straws, got them no prob off munster there recently, hmm not sure what i paid but i can check at home later, have a kjb heifer off part cow, she IS wild but then the mother is also, very light looking but shapey, could be nice yet, she might quieten down over winter when indoors, dehorning was scary!

Kovu

annubis wrote: »

have on dit straws, got them no prob off munster there recently, hmm not sure what i paid but i can check at home later, have a kjb heifer off part cow, she IS wild but then the mother is also, very light looking but shapey, could be nice yet, she might quieten down over winter when indoors, dehorning was scary!

The only KJB calf we have on the ground is very quiet, she's 7 months and can be scratched in the field. Her dam is exceptionally quiet though, those kjb's must be very easily influenced

What about Virginia Andy? We had no trouble with him on a small second calver this year, royalty fee though so straw was €50.

annubis

Kovu wrote: »

The only KJB calf we have on the ground is very quiet, she's 7 months and can be scratched in the field. Her dam is exceptionally quiet though, those kjb's must be very easily influenced

What about Virginia Andy? We had no trouble with him on a small second calver this year, royalty fee though so straw was €50.

never used andy now, he looks a fine bull but 50 is a bit saucy, also probably looking for 5* keeping genomics scheme in mind

bogman_bass

Kovu wrote: »

Is On-Dit not very hard to get now? And very expensive if you can find the straws.

The straws used to be owned bu the limo soc in Ireland up to recently but NCBC took over the agency about 2 months ago so the are both more plentiful and cheaper now

Kovu

annubis wrote: »

never used andy now, he looks a fine bull but 50 is a bit saucy, also probably looking for 5* keeping genomics scheme in mind

Hmm, what happened there, he was 4 stars last time I looked at him!
With the scheme in mind I'd prob go for KJB so, feck, there's going to be thousands upon thousands of his stock about next autumn! Everyone seems to be using him. Hope he's a randy bull to keep up with demand

tanko

Forget about Hollywood anyway, he's 8.9% calving difficulty.
EBY would be the safest, risk free option as they are only heifers. ZAG is supposed to be breeding well, mightn't be the biggest calves tho.
KZH looks very good on paper. I've used On Dit on cows,he's easy calved on them anyway, don't know about on heifers.
The problem with having your own pot is that if you don't use the straws you buy and keep buying straws off new Bulls you like the look of, you'll just end up with too many straws. Sure stick KJB in them

annubis

The problem with having your own pot is that if you don't use the straws you buy and keep buying straws off new Bulls you like the look of, you'll just end up with too many straws. Sure stick KJB in them[/QUOTE]


definitely true

patsy_mccabe

annubis wrote: »

thanks patsy
excuse my ignorance but what do those skeletal figures actually mean?

The skeletal figures give an idea of the Frame or bone in the offspring of a bull. You can see these on www.icbf.com under the 'linear type' tab. There are figures for height, width, length of back etc.

EFZ is in in the bottom 8% of the breed. So in layman terms, he breeds small compact cattle.

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The skeletal figures give an idea of the Frame or bone in the offspring of a bull. You can see these on www.icbf.com under the 'linear type' tab. There are figures for height, width, length of back etc.

EFZ is in in the bottom 8% of the breed. So in layman terms, he breeds small compact cattle.

What would be good figures to look for in a bull?

tanko

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

What would be good figures to look for in a bull?

For Lim Bulls I find around 113 is plenty if you want to add a bit of frame to a smaller cow and using Bulls around 100 - 105 on a big cow helps to ensure you don't end up with a leggy Giraffe.

patsy_mccabe

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

What would be good figures to look for in a bull?

No Good Figures as such. I suppose it's more to do with balance. If you have a cow that it a bit on the small side, you could use a bull with a high skeletal figure. Like wise if you had a huge cow, might be worth using a more compact bull to cross with.

MeheeHohee

Hi lads, have a small pedigree herd, started about 2 and a half years ago, so far had some nice stuff. Nothing out of the ordinary. Hoping to make the move to the next step, was looking at buying a few straws off Ampertine Gigolo for about 50 Euro a pop. Wondejng would these be wasted on my average cows and would I be better buying a heifer with better bloodlines for big money if I'm looking for a prize winner?

Kovu

MeheeHohee wrote: »

Hi lads, have a small pedigree herd, started about 2 and a half years ago, so far had some nice stuff. Nothing out of the ordinary. Hoping to make the move to the next step, was looking at buying a few straws off Ampertine Gigolo for about 50 Euro a pop. Wondejng would these be wasted on my average cows and would I be better buying a heifer with better bloodlines for big money if I'm looking for a prize winner?

Most lads keep their best breeding stock unless you can find a dispersal sale. I wonder if you have thought of ET (Embryo Transplant) on a few milky cows and see how you get on with those? It would be cheaper and you can usually find a good selection if you ask around. For example, I know a person nearly here with Ulysse eggs that have been in her freezer for 15yrs or so, we got one ET heifer from her and started out our PB herd from her. We've also been very lucky with having heifers as one cow had six hfs in a row, last year we had three from three and this yr we've two from three.

ALANC81

MeheeHohee wrote: »

Hi lads, have a small pedigree herd, started about 2 and a half years ago, so far had some nice stuff. Nothing out of the ordinary. Hoping to make the move to the next step, was looking at buying a few straws off Ampertine Gigolo for about 50 Euro a pop. Wondejng would these be wasted on my average cows and would I be better buying a heifer with better bloodlines for big money if I'm looking for a prize winner?

No the straws won't be wasted. The better the bull you use the better the calves will come year in year out as you keep replacements and breed from them. The better bulls will stand to your herd in the long run.

Sheep breeder

good straws are never a waste, we buy straws every year some cheap ones from young bulls and some pricey ones. we have done this for nearly 20 years and have some nice straws in the tank now.
the rule a thumb we use is what does the cow need to improve her as a starting point. no point putting a good straw into a poor cow it wont work to great,
a bull that looks great value is the lim on dit with progressive he has a serious proven record and breeding good females.
the bull ionescue a lim that progressive were selling for the easy calving dairy heifers when the pedigree boys started to use him he became a big success.

patsy_mccabe

And the best straws are from the proven bulls, not the 'Next best thing'.