Weanling to Bull Beef

jmurfy

I currently keep 30 top quality Charolaise Weanlings they average around 350kg. I normally castrate them all and keep as steers.

I am thinking about keeping a pen of the heaviest ones and finishing them as bulls under 16 months as a trial. These would be around 400-420kgs. I plan to house them soon. They are all Jan 2015 born so is it possible to have them fit under 16 months which would be May 2016. Also is there much of a disadvantage if they go 16 months?

I plan to feed them silage and nuts. Any advice is appreciated.

blue5000

Welcome to boards. I suggest aim for ad-lib meal the final 100 days with straw as roughage. Still doing 2 yr old bulls here, haven't gone 16mts yet. If they go over 16mths you lose the 12c QA bonus.

jmurfy

blue5000 wrote: »

Welcome to boards. I suggest aim for ad-lib meal the final 100 days with straw as roughage. Still doing 2 yr old bulls here, haven't gone 16mts yet. If they go over 16mths you lose the 12c QA bonus.

Cheers blue5000.
So if you finish them as 2 year olds do let them to grass over the 2nd summer or keep them indoors?

davidk1394

blue5000 wrote: »

Welcome to boards. I suggest aim for ad-lib meal the final 100 days with straw as roughage. Still doing 2 yr old bulls here, haven't gone 16mts yet. If they go over 16mths you lose the 12c QA bonus.

This is what i do. We finish AA and FR bulls. Slowly getting to the 16 month mark. At 17 now. Looking at feeding them cripped barley next year out off that sausage bag done by samco. I think it works out around €160/T for everything. Don't scrimp on meal with bulls it's the only way to put a good finish on them

blue5000

Graze them second summer, I don't start calving til mid march. Yours being a couple of months older should help them.

ellewood

Unless u have v v good silage I'd forget it and ad lib+straw
Management is key if it's not 100% you're on a looser from start

Bedding/space/Facilities for feeding/loading separate pen 4 a sick/lame one

ventilation/vacanations/dosing

Keeping feed fresh and water plenty full and clean those troughs that fill when they press it with there noses is a wast of time with bulls on adlib

Done well its the best way to squeeze every bit of value out Sucklers
Done badly it's the quickest way to go broke
Also I'd check with local factory to see if they want em/have markets for them
The over 16 mth will be shakey twords the end of next year as no's increase but sub 16 mth should b ok
Imo Jan is too early u have a good heavy calf @ end of year but he will b 15 mth in April most years May/June is a better price

Mad4simmental

What are lads feeding ad-lib to bulls? General beef bull nut or are you mixing your feed barly, soya ect?

Thinking of going this rought in the next few years to as the sim bulls wouldn't be the best seller in the mart but they sell fairly good as stores. I just think it's a waste squeezing good bulls.

memorystick

When feeding meal and straw, is it ok to throw meal at front and let them pull straw from a bale or is it essential to have a diet feeder and mix properly. Sorry if I'm a little unclear.

epfff

memorystick wrote: »

When feeding meal and straw, is it ok to throw meal at front and let them pull straw from a bale or is it essential to have a diet feeder and mix properly. Sorry if I'm a little unclear.

Diet feeder not necessary but for straw to do its job right it needs to be chopped
Also it's very hard to ad lib without some system to keep it fresh

tismesoitis

The most important thing about the under16 bull job is the quality of ration not the quantity. Also I'm a big fan of yeast in the diet.

tismesoitis

6 u16 mth Bulls sent to factory on Friday. 1. BB by Ekb out of on lim cow 450 carcass grade E=2= .
2- lim by ADX out of black lim cow 415 U=3=.
3- lim out of mop up stock bull out of HKG sim cow 365 r+3=.
4- lim by UTL out of black lim cow 424 u=3= .
5- bb by JKS out of lim cow by tko 465 E=2= .
6- BB by HTM out of lim cow 394 u=3=.

Kovu

^^ Just made that a bit easier to read tismesoitis.

tanko

tismesoitis wrote: »

6 u16 mth Bulls sent to factory on Friday. 1. BB by Ekb out of on lim cow 450 carcass grade E=2= .
2- lim by ADX out of black lim cow 415 U=3=.
3- lim out of mop up stock bull out of HKG sim cow 365 r+3=.
4- lim by UTL out of black lim cow 424 u=3= .
5- bb by JKS out of lim cow by tko 465 E=2= .
6- BB by HTM out of lim cow 394 u=3=.

It's interesting that the two BB's were the heaviest weights by far and graded E's yet they were only 2= for fat. If they had slipped back to 2- for fat would the price have been cut for them?
Is there much of a price difference between a U and an R grade?

blue5000

Fair play to you, was the stockbull a purebred? The calf is a good bit lighter. I'd say you are happy enough with the weights anyway.

tismesoitis

All under 420kgs were on the grid with bb bonus so 12 cent difference between u= and r+.

tismesoitis

Yeh blue he was but I'd put the blame for calf more with the dam. Weighed them all b4 slaughter and he lost out big time on kill out %.only about 53/54.

Panch18

tismesoitis wrote: »

Yeh blue he was but I'd put the blame for calf more with the dam. Weighed them all b4 slaughter and he lost out big time on kill out %.only about 53/54.

Thanks for posting this info

If you don't mind me asking what were the other kill out %??

Mad4simmental

It probably pays on a good year to feed past 420kgs with a good lad and forget the 12c?

What age did you really start to push them with creep feed? Thanks

tismesoitis

Two Es were 59/60 all others except R were 58ish. Got a kg of meal from about 5 or 6 months uped to 2 just b4 weaning then 3 until the group averaged 500kgs. 16 day build up to 11 kgs per day 96 day finish period. In the end group averaged 1.97 a day over the 112 days. Range 2.22 down to 1.78.

bogman_bass

did you get any bonus for an E over an U?

tismesoitis

10 cent extra agent got over agreed flat u price.

jmurfy

What time of nut did you feed them. Did you use the same nut before the 96 day finishing period and did you feed with straw or silage.

I housed mine on Saturday. The ave weight is 465kg. Another 170 days until slaughter date. What feed you recommend before the 100 day finishing period. Cheers.

epfff

jmurfy wrote: »

What time of nut did you feed them. Did you use the same nut before the 96 day finishing period and did you feed with straw or silage.

I housed mine on Saturday. The ave weight is 465kg. Another 170 days until slaughter date. What feed you recommend before the 100 day finishing period. Cheers.

Why another 170 to finishing line

tismesoitis

No nuts home mixed ration. 70% barley 12.5 maize meal. 12.5 % of a 20% protein balancer ration and 5% molasses. Also throw in a yeast additive and a shake of sodium bicarbonate to look after the bellys. They get 8 kgs of average silage and about half a kg of straw along with 11kgs of this ration. Before the build up they are on an 18% protein ration

CloughCasey1

tismesoitis wrote: »

No nuts home mixed ration. 70% barley 12.5 maize meal. 12.5 % of a 20% protein balancer ration and 5% molasses. Also throw in a yeast additive and a shake of sodium bicarbonate to look after the bellys. They get 8 kgs of average silage and about half a kg of straw along with 11kgs of this ration. Before the build up they are on an 18% protein ration

You have it down to a fine art!!

freedominacup

tismesoitis wrote: »

No nuts home mixed ration. 70% barley 12.5 maize meal. 12.5 % of a 20% protein balancer ration and 5% molasses. Also throw in a yeast additive and a shake of sodium bicarbonate to look after the bellys. They get 8 kgs of average silage and about half a kg of straw along with 11kgs of this ration. Before the build up they are on an 18% protein ration

Would you not increase your margin by reducing conc and including a bit more top quality forage. In fact would you not get a performance improvement by doing this as the animals wouldn't be tripping along the edge of getting acidosis/ketosis or laminitis problems all ofthe time. With ho bulls aiming for 370-390 kg at 18-20 months we never went above 6 kg of concentrate. 8-10 kg of top quality forage included in that ration though.

Bullocks

freedominacup wrote: »

Would you not increase your margin by reducing conc and including a bit more top quality forage. In fact would you not get a performance improvement by doing this as the animals wouldn't be tripping along the edge of getting acidosis/ketosis or laminitis problems all ofthe time. With ho bulls aiming for 370-390 kg at 18-20 months we never went above 6 kg of concentrate. 8-10 kg of top quality forage included in that ration though.

We're you using a diet feeder freedominacup and were you buy nuts or mixing up your own ?

jmurfy

epfff wrote: »

Why another 170 to finishing line

Because they will be just under 16 months in 170 days

epfff

jmurfy wrote: »

Because they will be just under 16 months in 170 days

Ok I kill when fit often killed them as early as 12 months old if they fit
Be careful you factory has not a upper weight limit

tismesoitis

Ah now freedom" tripping along the edge of getting acidosis ketosis and laminitis ALL of the time " ur not exaggerating are u😀. The pens of bulls on this diet just eat and chew cud happy out all the time. Don't think there would be enough bang in the diet on less than 10 kgs to get fat scores right in 100 days. The last group averaged just under 2 kgs per day including the buildup period. I'd be happy with that!

freedominacup

Bullocks wrote: »

freedominacup wrote: »

Would you not increase your margin by reducing conc and including a bit more top quality forage. In fact would you not get a performance improvement by doing this as the animals wouldn't be tripping along the edge of getting acidosis/ketosis or laminitis problems all ofthe time. With ho bulls aiming for 370-390 kg at 18-20 months we never went above 6 kg of concentrate. 8-10 kg of top quality forage included in that ration though.

We're you using a diet feeder freedominacup and were you buy nuts or mixing up your own ?

Done it both ways bullocks. Wagon definitely easier on the body and better performance. Own blend last time we did it. Maize based fed with wholecrop and a small amount of grass silage.

Neighbour with sixty odd sucklers finishing everything under 16 months bought a small very secondhand feeder a number of years ago. Cut the amount of meal he was feeding by a third. Uses a good bit of by product over the past couple of years. Have seen lorry in his yard waiting for an agent to come and agree a price for his bulls. Major reduction in calving difficulties since he got the feeder as well. Much tighter dry cow management.

Frankly I wouldn't know the first thing about quality suckled weanlings never finished anything other than ho bulls in any numbers. If tisme tells me I'm wrong on the metabolic problems I couldn't contradict him.

Farrell

Would you feed these guys or squeeze?
Born Jun 14, were on barish ground, owner wasn't in good health, going to look after for the winter for him.

grange mac

Farrell wrote: »

Would you feed these guys or squeeze?
Born Jun 14, were on barish ground, owner wasn't in good health, going to look after for the winter for him.

Feed him, if you squeeze he will melt away. Looks v young so I'd be leaving till spring anyhow.

Edit looks really small for 16mth calf... U sure not June 15

Kovu

grange mac wrote: »

Feed him, if you squeeze he will melt away. Looks v young so I'd be leaving till spring anyhow.

Edit looks really small for 16mth calf... U sure not June 15

He couldn't be 15 with those horns that's for sure.

Farrell

grange mac wrote: »

Feed him, if you squeeze he will melt away. Looks v young so I'd be leaving till spring anyhow.

Edit looks really small for 16mth calf... U sure not June 15

I'd say he was weaned in November when the cattle went in, would of been set stocked during the year, he's not that small, bout height of a Jan calf.
I'm feeding a bull of my own, he's on 5kg/day currently of Nut/barley/soya, was going to put him with him & after a few weeks of 5kg, push to 7.5kg then 10kg, then replace soya with maize, then adlib on straw

Pidae.m

tismesoitis wrote: »

6 u16 mth Bulls sent to factory on Friday. 1. BB by Ekb out of on lim cow 450 carcass grade E=2= .
2- lim by ADX out of black lim cow 415 U=3=.
3- lim out of mop up stock bull out of HKG sim cow 365 r+3=.
4- lim by UTL out of black lim cow 424 u=3= .
5- bb by JKS out of lim cow by tko 465 E=2= .
6- BB by HTM out of lim cow 394 u=3=.

Incredible weights. Mine are only 350kg dead. I've a long way to go.

adne

Pidae.m wrote: »

Incredible weights. Mine are only 350kg dead. I've a long way to go.

Gr8 weights..Any issues with weight limit

Pidae.m

adne wrote: »

Gr8 weights..Any issues with weight limit

I killed bulls 2 weeks and they were scarce of cattle so there was no trouble. Had a 23 month old ch 501kg & couple of high 400kg bulls and nowt was said. They had plenty of flesh too do